krisyyz
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Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 7:31 am

According to several Canadian news reports today, the Canadian government is planning on acquiring 4 C-17 globemasters along with around 20 short-haul aircraft for the replacement of the Herc's as well as around 10 heavy lift helicopters. This welcomed news, and long over due. Even thought the government is not confirming any C-17 orders yet, I bet we will see them soon as they are badly need by the Canadian forces.

KrisYYZ

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...226-401f-b8e8-026a8b8fea05&k=99852
 
Lumberton
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 7:35 am

I just read the article from the link you posted and it doesn't confirm that Canada is buying the C-17. Just talks about Boeing advising them that "time is running out"! Did I miss something?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
CF188A
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 10:35 am

Canada will be acquiring C-17s. They have been looking at them for 4 years now and they are pretty much waiting for the slots to open. Orders can be placed but they will not get them for some time .... Australia has yet to get theirs and the C-17 assembly line is not HUGE... according to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong?
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
MigFan
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 10:43 am

Will four make a difference?

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
Oroka
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Migfan (Reply 3):
Will four make a difference?

Well, considering we don't have a heavy lift capacity right now, yes it will. C-17s have been flying Canadian equipment around for a while... just someone else owns them.

The Hercs will probably get replaced with more Hercs, I am not sure about the heavy lift helos. I didn't even know the CAF was looking for heavy lift helicopter capacity  Confused

I wonder what is bringing this around now? New government maybe? Ol Harper seems keen on the idea of collecting less money and spending money he cant afford... I guess we will just have to do it like the rest of the world and live in the red  fever 
 
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N328KF
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting CF188A (Reply 2):
Australia has yet to get theirs and the C-17 assembly line is not HUGE... according to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong?

USAF granted the RAAF some of their production slots, so first delivery is in a few months. Since USAF has so many, they apparently didn't mind waiting a little longer for the last few units. I would think that an RCAF buy would be done the same way.

Quoting Migfan (Reply 3):
Will four make a difference?

Ask the RAF if four made a difference.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Stealthz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed May 31, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting Migfan (Reply 3):
Will four make a difference?



Quoting Oroka (Reply 4):
C-17s have been flying Canadian equipment around for a while... just someone else owns them.



Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
USAF granted the RAAF some of their production slots, so first delivery is in a few months. Since USAF has so many, they apparently didn't mind waiting a little longer for the last few units. I would think that an RCAF buy would be done the same way.

On the question of ..will 4 make a difference.. for sure!
Given the level of co-operation between the 4 countries that operate the C-17.... OK 2 that do, 1 that will and 1 that might!! They almost constitute a single fleet( I can see a flaming coming for that comment!!) and with 4(maybe 5) for the RAF, 4 for the RAAF and maybe 4 for RCAF that is almost a 10% increase in global (C-17) airlift capability that the USAF doesn't have to budget for.. why wouldn't they give up production slots.

And every new order keeps the line open longer giving the USAF more time to convince those in charge of the purse strings to loosen up a little!
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kc135topboom
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting CF188A (Reply 2):
Australia has yet to get theirs and the C-17 assembly line is not HUGE...



Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
USAF granted the RAAF some of their production slots, so first delivery is in a few months.

Since the RAAF only finalized their C-17 order a few months ago, they are getting a rapid delivery. Our Canadian friends can get this same deal.
 
CF188A
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:59 am

has the ONE AND ONLY AN-225 made a difference? I think so. But then again, the guys who make it to the top and fly in the CAF, will have the luxery of flying the C-17.
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
Did I miss something?

Defence Minister is pushing for funding now. There is some opposition due to the perception of favouritism, ie there has been no competition. The Government's arguement is "sole source", in that this is the only aircraft in production that fits requirements. Besides, open contracts & competitions have not prevented government meddling & purchase of inferior equipment (in general, not C-17) in the past, so why not save time?

Quoting Oroka (Reply 4):
C-17s have been flying Canadian equipment around for a while... just someone else owns them.

By & large the bulk of our stuff is being moved on Il-76 (weekly supply to Afghanistan) & An-124. I understand the contract is with http://www.skylinkaviation.com/

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
around 20 short-haul aircraft for the replacement of the Herc's

Sounds like they're leaning toward the C-130J again, but I think EADS has offered a really sweet deal- rebuilt C-130H's until the A-400 is ready. Apparently Lockheed Martin has said the C-130J can't be certified on the timeline Canada wants either.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 4):
I guess we will just have to do it like the rest of the world and live in the red

There's enough money for everything, as long as politicians stop lining their pockets, paying off friends & funding social engineering experiments.
Can you hear me now?
 
474218
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 9):
Apparently Lockheed Martin has said the C-130J can't be certified on the timeline Canada wants either.

Since C-130J's have been certified for years, what additional certification would be required by the Canadians?
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 10):
C-130J's have been certified for years

My mistake, the A400 won't be certified in time, while the C-130J cannot be delivered in the requisite timeframe.
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-tactical.htm
Can you hear me now?
 
atmx2000
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 6):
the USAF doesn't have to budget for.. why wouldn't they give up production slots.

And every new order keeps the line open longer giving the USAF more time to convince those in charge of the purse strings to loosen up a little!

I thinking spreading out the planned purchases helps. The units costs should be lower when the line is operating at full speed, which would otherwise encourage the USAF to get them sooner than they might otherwise want to.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
atmx2000
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting CF188A (Reply 8):
But then again, the guys who make it to the top and fly in the CAF, will have the luxery of flying the C-17.

Well if only the guys who make it to the top of the CAF get to fly the C-17, there wouldn't be a point in getting any. Oh, you meant pilot the C-17.  Wink
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 11):
My mistake, the A400 won't be certified in time, while the C-130J cannot be delivered in the requisite timeframe.
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-ta...l.htm

A most interesting website.

The C17 will serve Canada well. I was privileged to work in C17 development inspection at Douglas and I spent a lot of time under the floor spotting locations for hydraulic components and mechanical installations.

It is a heavy lifter par excellence with excellent performance, and it was designed around carrying an M1 Abrams tank in and out of 5,000 foot unimproved airfields. There's nothing like it on the market right now that's readily available. Although it looks like Canada is getting out of the main battle tank line of work, the capacity and floor loading capability should prove most useful.

And....it's a McDonnell Douglas C17, folks, made in Long Beach. The only thing Boeing about it is the nameplate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/equipment.html
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
columba
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 14):
And....it's a McDonnell Douglas C17, folks, made in Long Beach. The only thing Boeing about it is the nameplate.

Right on, it give me shivers if I hear people refering to the Boeing MD 80 or Boeing MD 11......it just does not sound right. MD means McDonnel Douglas and nothing else and the C-17 was the last product being made by this great company.

I remember reading aviation magazines in the early 90s where it was stated that Airbus has outsold MDD this year and is no No.2 after Boeing.
Airbus did a lot of catching up during those years. It is sad that MDD has gone.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:23 am

Looks like Russia is offering the Il-76 and Mi-17 to Canada. I doubt we will see the Canadian forces be interested in either of these aircraft.


"The Russians are trying to interest Canada in their Ilyushin Il-76 MD-90 four-engine long-range cargo plane and their Mi-17V heavy lift transport helicopter, and they're offering the incentive of leasing instead of buying and delivering directly to Afghanistan where they're needed most. The Russians also say they can beat the delivery time of the nearest competitors by almost half by getting them into the hands of the Canadian Forces by late next year."

The government headed by Stephen Harper appears to favor the American built C-17 Boeing Globemaster long-range cargo plane, and heavy Chinook transport helicopters, but Russia is already applying direct political pressure on Mr. Harper to eschew buying from NATO countries.

http://www.mosnews.com/money/2006/06/01/canadamilitary.shtml
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...4579-a263-88a955bc993a&k=20180&p=2

KrisYYZ
 
474218
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 11):
My mistake, the A400 won't be certified in time, while the C-130J cannot be delivered in the requisite timeframe.
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-ta...l.htm

The real problem is that all three aircraft (C-130J, A400 and C-17) are all designed for different missions. The C-130J is a tactical airlifter, the C-17 is a strategic airlifter and the A-400 fits somewhere in between. Notice in the referenced web site some places they call the A400 a tactical airlifter and in others a strategic airlifter.

Not only is the A400 not certified, it has yet to even fly.
 
CF188A
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
Not only is the A400 not certified, it has yet to even fly.

so "it" the A400M and the 787 are in the same boat then ..on a :this is what the plane will do" basis... to satisfy customers?... how wonderful        

[Edited 2006-06-02 02:59:36]
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
Dougloid
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting CF188A (Reply 18):
so "it" the A400M and the 787 are in the same boat then ..on a :this is what the plane will do" basis... to satisfy customers?... how wonderful

S'fars I've heard the latest development is the first tests of the engine and prop in a built up nacelle...not a whole lotta progress to be found in publicity there...that's one that's been on the back burner while they've been pouring euros down the A380 dry hole.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
TSV
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Ask the RAF if four made a difference.

and their answer is a fifth would be even better (something the RAAF should have taken note of).
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Oroka
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 14):
Although it looks like Canada is getting out of the main battle tank line of work, the capacity and floor loading capability should prove most useful.

Definitely, especially for bringing heavy loads into the northern regions. Lots of large flat places to land up there!

Funny thing about the tanks... I discovered last week I am a 1 hour drive from one of their tank training grounds Big grin

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 16):
The government headed by Stephen Harper appears to favor the American built C-17 Boeing Globemaster long-range cargo plane, and heavy Chinook transport helicopters

C-17, good. Chinook, would look good in Yellow, good. Not putting 'Prime Minister' in front of Harper's name, great!
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 21):
Not putting 'Prime Minister' in front of Harper's name, great!

LOL, well said.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 21):
Chinook, would look good in Yellow,

if ordered at all, they would never appear in the yellow SAR markings as they would be tactical heavy lifters for the army.

KrisYYZ
 
Lumberton
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:11 am

From Reuters:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/060605/transport_canada_boeing.html?.v=1

Quote:
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's Conservative government is about to decide to spend a total of C$4.5 billion ($4.1 billion) on the purchase and maintenance of four giant Boeing (NYSE:BA - News) C-17 transport aircraft, the opposition Liberal Party said on Monday.

USD$4.1 Billion??? This can't be correct.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Oroka
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 22):
if ordered at all, they would never appear in the yellow SAR markings as they would be tactical heavy lifters for the army.

I know... I just kinda miss hearing a Lab chugging along on its way.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 22):
LOL, well said.

The man just gives me shivers... I know the Liberals screwed up bad, but heck, I would have rather seen Jack Layton running Canada.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23):
USD$4.1 Billion??? This can't be correct

"The contract includes 1.35 bln usd for the planes itself and further payment for the conversion and servicing of the aircraft for a period of twenty years."


KrisYYZ
 
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N328KF
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 25):
and further payment for the conversion and servicing of the aircraft for a period of twenty years."

Conversion?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 26):
Conversion?

I thought that was weird too, they must mean upgrades.

KrisYYZ
 
Lumberton
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:36 pm

Latest inducement, Boeing is offering offsets. Can a counter from EADS or Lockheed be forthcoming?
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...55f-49e4-aeed-cece0c590917&k=38241
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 14):
And....it's a McDonnell Douglas C17, folks, made in Long Beach. The only thing Boeing about it is the nameplate.

Anything that keeps aircraft production open in California is welcome news, indeed!

It's a shame that Boeing decided to terminate 717 production and thus close the last remaining passenger airliner manufacturing plant in California, but on the other hand, the market is the market. The last 717 rolled off the assembly line quite recently.

[Edited 2006-06-13 14:42:07]
What's fair is fair.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 21):
Funny thing about the tanks... I discovered last week I am a 1 hour drive from one of their tank training grounds

Far's I know Canada operates a hundred or so Leopard Is that are being product improved, but if they're going to be built into Leopard IIs is unknown to me.
Anyway, Canada probably doesn't really need MBTs unless it's to deter yanquis from taking all the parking spaces at Tim Horton's.
The wife works on a National Guard post and they have a real good use for MBTs there. Here's a pic I made.

Big version: Width: 680 Height: 520 File size: 101kb
Abrams
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
atmx2000
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 28):
Latest inducement, Boeing is offering offsets. Can a counter from EADS or Lockheed be forthcoming?

Canada is probably going to buy C130s as well

But EADS/Airbus is miffed they haven't been invited to the party:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/32cbced2-ffb1-11da-93a0-0000779e2340.html

http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archive/June2006/15/c9456.html

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...geid=968350072197&col=969048863851

Short story, they are offering 16 A400s, but delivery would not be until 2014, which seems way rather far away.

They are also telling the Canada that they don't need the C-17.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 31):
Short story, they are offering 16 A400s, but delivery would not be until 2014, which seems way rather far away.

They are also telling the Canada that they don't need the C-17.

Why am I not surprised at that LOL?

Even the guys at Airbus would have a tough time with that version of Le Sales Pitch...I can see it all now. If Canada goes for it I've got ocean front property in Arkansas they might like a chance to get in on.

Le salesman:
"It'll cost you half as much, but you won't be able to carry but half the payload, we don't know how well it'll deliver on the performance guarantees because, see there's the small matter that it doesn't exist yet and won't for a while. That goes for the engines too. But don't worry. We'll stick to le delivery schedule...why, 2014's just around the corner. Ze perfidious Americains cannot compete with that. Get in on ze ground floor, they are going verra verra fast. Please give me the check. Sign here."

Blank stares all around.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
MrChips
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:22 am

Unrelated, but anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what the C-17s will be called in Canadian service?

My guess is that it will be simply CC-170 Globemaster.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Lumberton
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 31):
they are offering 16 A400s, but delivery would not be until 2014, which seems way rather far away.

With all respect, Atmx2000, it is far away!. I believe the Canadian forces would be offered one of the later builds from the USAF inventory to get started--similar to (my understanding) what Australia was offered.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 33):
what the C-17s will be called in Canadian service?

How about "CC-170 Maybenextyear"?  Silly

Skylink Aviation is offering to contract service now. They say that for $42 million per year they would base two An-124 & two Il-76 at YTR. They would be on 24/7 standby exclusive to DND, according to the proposal, & the cost is based on operating each aircraft 400 hours per year (Ottawa Citizen).
Can you hear me now?
 
aislepathlight
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:54 am

I read the LA times article about the Boeing plant in Long Beach in the paper today. It said that the Canadians were going to buy 3 of them. Just a testament to occasionally how unreliable paper sources are.
bleepbloop
 
skysurfer
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:40 pm

I really don't see what the big fuss is all about in here, most ppl have answered the ? perfectly. Canada is operating equipment that is basically 'past it' and we need to get replacements ASAP. Gen. Rick Hillier is the best thing to happen to the Canadian military in many many moons as he speaks his mind and he knows what he's talking about.
We need the C-17's for heavy airlift
We need C-130J's to replace the ageing, mission restricted early C-130's
We need something to replace the crapped out Sea King's, i'm going for Merlins
We need something to replace the CP-140 Auroras....take your best shot at that
We need CF-18 replacements sooner THAN later knowing our history of sitting on the fence till the service life is almost up! No prizes for guessing it'll be the Super Hornet due to commonality.

Canada has been too complacent on relying on the US to provide defence, and in the meantime our equipment has aged and broken down and we're a laughing stock of other countries militaries.......even the cammies worn day to day are outdated and faded. Get with the program Canada....if you have a territory, prepare to defend it no matter how little threat there is.

Oh i forgot to mention the A310's.....they seem to be doing alright, although seeing an AN-225 at CFB Trenton makes me want to see one in that dull grey scheme that we have! hehe

Cheers

ps, i love Canada, it just p!sses me off to see we have to rely on AN-124's and the americans to get our equipment from A to B! If we can't do that ourselves then we shouldn't be flying the Maple Leaf.
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
MigFan
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 37):
ps, i love Canada, it just p!sses me off to see we have to rely on AN-124's and the americans to get our equipment from A to B! If we can't do that ourselves then we shouldn't be flying the Maple Leaf.


I think I see your point. Too bad for those facts. Do you think Canada would go for Su-30s?

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
bmacleod
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 4):
C-17s have been flying Canadian equipment around for a while...

How much room is left for Canadian equipment on those U.S. C-17s? Over 90% of them are tied up in Iraqi Freedom.

I thought we were renting AN-124s at a very reasonable rate and renting AN-124s is a lot cheaper than buying C-17s....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:56 am

some more info:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/procurement.html

I bet we will hear about the C-17 order relatively soon. Just my guess!

KrisYYZ
 
AirRyan
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:59 am

AvWeek says the CAF will buy 4 C-17's, 17 C-130J's, and a "handfull" of medium-lift helicopters. The only thing that confuses me is that at the end of the article it says the Boeing Chinook looks to be the likely winner. Since when did the Chinook ever become a medium-lift helicopter? Wouldn't something along the lines of the Sikorsky S-92 or the US-101 be more in line (they already use the EH-101, correct?) Even though AvWeek said medium-lift more than a few times in the article, perhaps they actually meant heavy-lift? I don't think Canada has any heavy-lift helos so that might make more sense?
 
krisyyz
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:43 am

CH-148 Cyclone- (Sikorsky H92 Superhawk) Maritime, ship-born helicopter meant as a replacement for the Sea Kings. CAF orders 28, first being delivered 2008

CH-149 Cormorant (EH-101) SAR operations, CAF has 15 of them.

Canada needs some heavy-lift helicopters, and the Chinook is the preferred choice by Canada. Apparently the Chinooks are in high-demand and Canada would have to wait its turn. The CAF is talking about taking some CH-149's off of SAR duties, repainting them and using them as a interim solution.

KrisYYZ
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 37):
Hillier is the best thing to happen to the Canadian military in many many moons as he speaks his mind and he knows what he's talking about.

I'm not so sure anymore. After all this talk about "transformation" all that's happened so far is that new commands have been created. More command levels=more officers. Our manpower shortage is at the private soldier level & we've always been top-heavy with officers, especially Generals. The Auditor General reported recently that people are leaving the military so fast that after a three year recruiting drive the net gain has only been 700 troops (the target was 5000).

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 37):
We need CF-18 replacements sooner THAN later knowing our history of sitting on the fence till the service life is almost up! No prizes for guessing it'll be the Super Hornet due to commonality.

Actually the odds-on favourite is the JSF, Canada has been a partner in the program for some time.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 42):
Chinook is the preferred choice by Canada

Too bad the government allowed the Air Force to sell it's Chinooks to save money (direct support to the Army has never been popular with the Air Force- they think the world revolves around fighters). They had to be upgraded at considerable expense when they were sold too- the Netherlands I think.
Can you hear me now?
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 42):
CH-148 Cyclone- (Sikorsky H92 Superhawk) Maritime, ship-born helicopter meant as a replacement for the Sea Kings. CAF orders 28, first being delivered 2008

Sounds like an excellent aircraft to supplement the USMC medium-lift V-22 fleet with.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 42):
Canada needs some heavy-lift helicopters, and the Chinook is the preferred choice by Canada. Apparently the Chinooks are in high-demand and Canada would have to wait its turn. The CAF is talking about taking some CH-149's off of SAR duties, repainting them and using them as a interim solution.

If Canada were smart they'd pass on the Boeing tandem-rotored pig all together and sign on with the USMC for the Sikorsky CH-53K:

http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/0,9604,1842,00.pdf

 
WrenchBender
Posts: 1662
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:59 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 33):
Unrelated, but anyone willing to hazard a guess as to what the C-17s will be called in Canadian service

The next available number should be the CC157 but convention has been broken before, CF188 for the 18, CH147 for the Chinook. We will probably keep the Globemaster name though.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 41):
Even though AvWeek said medium-lift more than a few times in the article, perhaps they actually meant heavy-lift? I don't think Canada has any heavy-lift helos so that might make more sense?

The Chinook has always been considered a Medium Lift helo, its max AUW is 50Klbs which is less than the CH53 which is still a med lift at 70Klbs, unlike the russian Mil Mi 26 at 126Klbs.

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 45):
The Chinook has always been considered a Medium Lift helo, its max AUW is 50Klbs which is less than the CH53 which is still a med lift at 70Klbs, unlike the russian Mil Mi 26 at 126Klbs.

If you put it that way, then there really is only 1 "heavy" lift helo in the world!  Wink

I must be out of touch because I wasn't aware that Canada got rid of their Chinooks!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2533
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 46):
I wasn't aware that Canada got rid of their Chinooks!

Yes. Prime Minister Jean Creatien ordered a complete gutting of Canada's Defence when he took power in 1993. Even the desert camouflage uniforms were sold too...  frown 

It was only after 9/11 when the cash-cow Liberal government finally woke up...
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 45):
The Chinook has always been considered a Medium Lift helo, its max AUW is 50Klbs which is less than the CH53 which is still a med lift at 70Klbs, unlike the russian Mil Mi 26 at 126Klbs.

As far as the US military is concerned, the H-47 and the H-53 are heavy-lift helicotpers.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 46):
If you put it that way, then there really is only 1 "heavy" lift helo in the world!

No joke!
 
don81603
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:07 am

RE: Canada To Buy 4 Boeing C-17s

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 37):
ps, i love Canada, it just p!sses me off to see we have to rely on AN-124's and the americans to get our equipment from A to B! If we can't do that ourselves then we shouldn't be flying the Maple Leaf.

A-FREAKING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!

As a former serviceman (RCN), I agree totally our equipment isn't outdated, it antiqued! Our former subs were dive limited (there was some concern about their ability to surface again), and until recently, we had no serious warships, just DDE/DDH's (Destroyer escorts, with and without helicopters), and the choppers they carried originally came over on the Arc, if IIRC.

Skysurfer, welcome to my RU!
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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