phatalbert
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Classifing Military Aircraft

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:37 pm

ok.. so how do you find out the aircrafts registration and cn.. because i got some pics that have a kc-135 as ANG 71494 and a T-38 as AF 02639 how do you figure the registration and cn out? This maybe a dumb question to some poepl im sorry but i don't know lol..
**Isaac**
 
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vzlet
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:54 pm

For US military aircraft, Joe Baugher's site is invaluable:
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/

This page is a neat search interface to Baugher's material:
http://users.rcn.com/jeremy.k/serialSearch.html
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:06 am

Just a few notes to help you navigate Baugher's site.

He has USAF which includes US Army and he has Navy. Select the one you want.

Navy uses Bureau Numbers (BuNo) which are sequential starting way back. Easy to search.

USAF and Army:

The displayed tail number is most often five digits. The first digit is normally the last digit of the fiscal year, within a decade, that the aircraft was acquired by the service. The next four digits are just the sequence, within a block of numbers assigned to an aircraft acquisition contract. So to use your first example:

71494

That 7 means we could search 1947, 1957, 1967, 1977, 1987, and so on. Best bet is probably 1957 as the -135 was a brand new aircraft back then. Sure enough Baugher's sources say that the sequence 1418 through 1514 were Boeing KC-135A-BN Stratotankers. Some times he even has additional info about a particular airframe. In this case he has notes on 71490 and 71497 but nothing on the one you enquired about.

02639

This one suggests a search in 1960/'70/'80. 1960 the last four numbers would make it a Martin Bullpup missile. If you are fairly sure that is not what you were looking at, let's try 1970. Nope, in that year the USAF numbers ended at 02523 and the Army numbers start at 70-15000 which was a CH-47, a Charlie model. Impressive aircraft but easy to distinguish from a T-38. How about 1980? Nope, no numbers in that sequence at all. Likewise in 1990. 2000 as a remanufacture of some kind? No.

So I'm stumped.

There is an Army regulation that says if an aircraft is more than a decade old a zero can be added to the beginning of the tail number to distinguish it from any number conflict. Don't know if the Air Force uses that protocol but it could be. I am going to run out of time here but you could start that kind of a search. Find a year in which the USAF was acquiring T-38s and search for the 1494 and even for _494. I have made a fairly thorough search over the period from 1959 through 1971 and not found anything that might be it. So, two suggestions.

1. Be very sure you have written the number down correctly.

2. Look carefully at the lists of all blocks of T-38 aircraft. There are only a limited number of years in which they were buying these aircraft.

If the aircraft in question is a 'display' aircraft, on a plinth or on a stick, then the number displayed might be bogus.

Finding the c/n from this information, I cannot help you but someone here probably can.
Good Hunting.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
Finding the c/n from this information, I cannot help you but someone here probably can.

Hi, I'm someone  Wink To find the construction number, your best bet is to go to Scramble at . Click on "DATABASES," select "Military Db," select the military arm you're looking for from the dropdown menu and put the serial number (the full one) in the search engine. To use the KC-135, for instance, we'd put in 57-1494, we find that its CN is 17565
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SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 3):
Scramble

Hey, I'd never seen that site before. Thanks. I'll get another week's usefulness out of the internet now.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
phatalbert
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:13 am

ok how about us army helicoptors? or helicoptors is general them sites do it to?
**Isaac**
 
SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting PhatAlbert (Reply 5):
how about us army helicoptors

Army aircraft, fixed and rotary wing are listed with the USAF numbers. They usually start above (numerically) them with the year plus a five digit number like this example.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
the Army numbers start at 70-15000 which was a CH-47

By the way, are you SURE about that T-38 number because I have not found it yet.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:59 am

For the USAF, the numbers are blocked, based on the total number of aircraft they will buy in a FY. So, lets say the USAF was buying 350 aircraft (of all types) in FY 1960. The break down of each type is looked at, so lets say out of the 350 aircraft they buy, 110 are going to be KC-135As and another 85 are T-38As. Next USAF looks at the active inventory of tail numbers still in USAF ANG and USAFR service from FYs 1950 and 1940, so no tail number group is duplicated.

Finally they look at the blocks of each aircraft. The T-38 was bought in only one block in 1960, so that one is easy. But the KC-135 was bought in 3 blocks (Block 20, KC-135A, 25, converted to KC-135Q {on the production line} and 33 aircraft, C-135A) . So they will sequence each block differently. Block 20 aircraft might run tail numbers 0300-0335, block 25 aircraft 0355-0375, and block 33 aircraft 2602-2655.

Now the MDS (mission, design, series) is a little less complicated The Mission indicated if the airplane is a fighter (F), bomber (B), tanker (K), cargo (C), reconn (R), ect. Airplanes with duel roles, or that were modified later will carry 2 or more mission letters, KC refers to tanker first, cargo second. The design is simply a design number assigned before production begins. The series indicates modifications to the original design that were incorporated into the production line, or heaverly modified later.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
The T-38 was bought in only one block in 1960

So Baugher has these as 60-0547 through 60-0596 which suggests that the number PhatAlbert gives us is not the correct one.

How about it, thread starter. You have some guys doing research for you. Want to confirm or correct that number?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
dlednicer
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting PhatAlbert (Reply 5):
ok how about us army helicoptors? or helicoptors is general them sites do it to?

I've been working on cleaning up all the helicopter listings in a.net and I've found this site to be really useful (though the Java code is a little unstable): http://www30.brinkster.com/ukcopter/frames/master.html
The really neat part about this site is that you can type in just portions of a military serial number (say, the last three digits) and you will see all possible matches.

Scramble has military helicopters, but you need to type in the serial number or code exactly right.

Also, this site is useful for civil helicopters: http://www.geocities.com/rotorspot/historic.htm
 
phatalbert
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:56 am

TOTTALLY MY BAD... my mistake its a T-6a... again my bad... any results on that?

here is the tail of a us army national guard helo. Does it matter if its say USAF and ANG there pretty much the same or no?





[Edited 2006-06-30 20:10:21]
**Isaac**
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting PhatAlbert (Reply 10):
Does it matter if its say USAF and ANG there pretty much the same or no?

All ANG and USAFR aircraft are bought by the USAF, they are assigned USAF tail numbers.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:32 pm

Well PhatAlbert I've asked you the question and not had an answer. Perhaps you have lost interest in your own thread.

The number you give, 02639 appears to be incorrect.

Here are the results. Don't know why I bothered, but this appears to be the entire run of T-6A aircraft.

95-3000/3011 Beech Raytheon T-6A Texan II
96-3012/3014 Raytheon T-6A Texan II
97-3015/3024 Raytheon T-6A Texan II
98-3025/3046 Beech Raytheon T-6A Texan II
99-3547/3568 Raytheon Beech T-6A Batch 6 Texan II
00-3569/3597 Raytheon T-6A Batch 7 Texan II
01-3598/3632 Raytheon Beech T-6A Batch 8 Texan II
02-3633/3672 Raytheon Beech T-6A Texan II
03-3676/3700 Raytheon T-6A Texan II
04-3711/3735 Raytheon T-6A Texan II

When it becomes obvious that other people are doing research for you it is only good manners to fake a little interest in the results.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
phatalbert
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:23 pm

here SlamClick is the big close up...

http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uty0le.jpg
**Isaac**
 
SlamClick
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RE: Classifing Military Aircraft

Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:54 pm

Well, the only possible match is 02-3639 which falls in the 02 block. That could be correct if the USAF has taken to omitting numbers. I have not seen that done before. Anyone know if they are routinely doing that? I suppose it could be as they are getting so few new aircraft there is not much chance of a duplication of digits anymore.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.

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