bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:32 pm

http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional...25765390.xml&storylist=alabamanews

You might need to register to read the story but it's super simple with no personal info and free.

Here's a few short excerpts:

Quote:
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) � The European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. will manage a U.S. military helicopter assembly operation potentially worth $3 billion out of Huntsville, the company announced Friday.

The contract to build up to 352 UH-145 helicopters for the military's light utility helicopter program was awarded to the EADS Friday. The helicopters will be assembled by the company's American Eurocopter facility in Columbus, Miss.

It's the company's first major military contract.

"When EADS North America was created four years ago, we committed to in-source U.S. jobs of high value, bring the best technology to America, and contribute to homeland security," said Ralph D. Crosby Jr., EADS North America's Chairman and chief executive, said in a statement. "The UH-145 will enable us to deliver once again on all three promises."

It's becoming more and more clear that the US military is allowing real competition for its contracts. In the long run this is good news as it will force US companies to be more innovative and efficient.

The tanker competition could be very interesting. An EADS win for that would bring Alabama up to 3 major EADS facilities. Definitely not something I would have predicted a few years ago.
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jwenting
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:35 pm

More loss of independence for the US. At least it's not a real force multiplier or a complete weapons system they'll have to get permission from Paris and Berlin for to use when needed.
I wish I were flying
 
bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
More loss of independence for the US. At least it's not a real force multiplier or a complete weapons system they'll have to get permission from Paris and Berlin for to use when needed.

True, but when you look at the entrants it's hard to argue that this wasn't the strongest one. Very good payload, range, etc. and the truth is MBB came up with the best system for helicopter medical transport a long time ago and this is a major part of the intended use.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
columba
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:31 pm

Great news indeed - I think it is a very good helicopter for the U.S. Army and it shows that there is a real competition on the U.S. Military market.
U.S. companies can not be too sure to get a contract with the military any more.
But I believe it also shows that the most U.S. helicopter manufactureres such as Bell and Sikorsky have not been very innovative over the last decades.
It is the third big helicopter that went to European companies (the new "Marine 1" helicopter won by Agusta/Westland, the border patrol helicopters won by EADS and now this one, too)
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ANCFlyer
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:50 pm

Well I certainly prefer a US military equipped by US manufactured equipment* -

That said: I also prefer my tax dollars get the best bang for the buck, and in this case, the EADS bird is the best by test.

Furthermore, I also prefer the soldiers in the field get the best possible equipment and if that means contracting outside the US, because US companies are not innovative or are lazy (because they've become comfortable getting US military contracts) then that ok too.

Whatever is best for the troops . . . that is the bottom line.

*Yes, I know it's going to built in Columbus, and by US workers (Mississippi workers of course  scared  wink  ).

BHMBAGLOCK, got a picture of this new bird? And how much more Gov't $$ can they stand in Huntsville!? I oughta move back there - closer to my Mom!
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scbriml
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
More loss of independence for the US.

 confused 

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
At least it's not a real force multiplier or a complete weapons system they'll have to get permission from Paris and Berlin for to use when needed.

If the USAF operated KC-30s, how exactly would France and Germany be able to stop them being operated as the US sees fit? banghead 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
PlaneHunter
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:46 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
More loss of independence for the US.

How exactly?

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 1):
At least it's not a real force multiplier or a complete weapons system they'll have to get permission from Paris and Berlin for to use when needed.

Examples?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
columba
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
BHMBAGLOCK, got a picture of this new bird?

Here are some pictures of it:
http://www.uh-145.com/about/about_gallery.htm
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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kc135topboom
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
If the USAF operated KC-30s, how exactly would France and Germany be able to stop them being operated as the US sees fit?

By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue.
 
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par13del
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:22 pm

AncFlyer
"Furthermore, I also prefer the soldiers in the field get the best possible equipment and if that means contracting outside the US, because US companies are not innovative or are lazy (because they've become comfortable getting US military contracts) then that ok too."

KC135TopBoom
"Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
If the USAF operated KC-30s, how exactly would France and Germany be able to stop them being operated as the US sees fit?

"By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue."

If you cannot use it, how does having the best equipment help the troops? With all the worlds military now being run as a business, everyone is going to the Just In Time method for production and spare parts, no more extended inventory.

The way to influence a foreign power is now through its suppliers wherever they may be, amazing the more things change the more they remain the same. The U-boats of WW1 and WW2 proved that it was a viable strategy, wonder what was done to prevent that from happening again?

Another question, should the US now set up its version of EADS / AIRBUS to protect and ensure that it has a viable helicopter industry going forward? Purchasing all these helicopters from EADS / AIRBUS means that there will eventually be no deisgn knowledge in the US, assembly is only a part of the problem, take a note from the Eurpoeans here. Instead of asking Boeing / MDD and Lockheed to set up assembly plants in Europe to preserve jobs, they created Airbus to ensure home grown talent.

As you say, just a thought.
 
Lumberton
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
If the USAF operated KC-30s, how exactly would France and Germany be able to stop them being operated as the US sees fit? banghead



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue.

Beat me to it, KC135TopBoom! I hope we get 100% control over the logistics pipeline here or some communist lawyer in France will file suit to restrict our use of these helos.  duck 
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ANCFlyer
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):
Here are some pictures of it:

Thanks!!!

I wonder how long that cushy leather look interior will be Standard Issue?


Quoting Lumberton (Reply 10):
I hope we get 100% control over the logistics pipeline here or some communist lawyer in France will file suit to restrict our use of these helos.

When that happens, we seize the factory and all it's assets in Shitbird, Mississippi

Problem over.

[Edited 2006-07-01 13:37:25]
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columba
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Thanks!!!

I wonder how long that cushy leather look interior will be Standard Issue?

I wondered if the quad bike comes with delivery of the helo  Wink
Could be an option for overcrowded highways, take the helo, land near to your destination, take the bike out and go where ever you want to go.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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scbriml
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue.

This is utter protectionist tosh. So the USAF won't keep any spares?

The KC-30 is based on the A330. Plenty of US airlines operate it, so no problems getting spares for the basic plane. All the militarisation of the A330 would be done in the US, so how can France or Germany interfere with the supply line?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
keesje
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
If the USAF operated KC-30s, how exactly would France and Germany be able to stop them being operated as the US sees fit?

By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue.

If it really works that way, some countries might seriously reconsider buying further US made aircraft, helicopters and other defense material.

http://www.boeing.com/ids/a_to_z.html
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=20&sc=400
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Lumberton
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:41 pm

BTW, does anyone else find the timing of this announcement curious? A late announcement on Friday , before a long weekend when Congress will be out for the holiday next week? Congress can still kill this, or hold it hostage to other "terms"....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
AGC525
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:59 pm

My company has been using the EC-145 for a while now and although I haven't flown on on yet, I hear they're pretty awesome. But nothing beats the Dauphins we used to have.

http://alecbuck.com/airambulance/mediagallery/album.php?aid=355&page=1
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par13del
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:27 pm

Keesje
"
If it really works that way, some countries might seriously reconsider buying further US made aircraft, helicopters and other defense material."

Apparently, they do, especially after seeing what the US did with Iran and the military that the Shah built from US equipment.

Notice how the majority of other Arab countries started buying from more than one vendor.
 
MigFan
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:29 pm

This is not a completely new idea to U.S. Military spending. What about the USCG? They have been using European aircraft for awhile, Dauphin, Falcon. There had to be some reason to justify the spending while suitable alternatives were available.

Who were the competition? Huey II, Agusta AB139, UH-1Y?

The flow of parts and the indemnity of buying from a foreign supplier has been thought out. The U.S. would not allow itself to fall prey to it's own tactics.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
ANCFlyer
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting MigFan (Reply 18):
This is not a completely new idea to U.S. Military spending. What about the USCG? They have been using European aircraft for awhile, Dauphin, Falcon. There had to be some reason to justify the spending while suitable alternatives were available.

Except . . . .

The USCG is not part of the DoD except in a time of war . . . do the DoD had nothing to do with it.
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Lumberton
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
The USCG is not part of the DoD except in a time of war . . . do the DoD had nothing to do with it.

Technically correct, but it represented a signficant order nonetheless to a U.S. armed service, which the Coast Guard certainly is.

I still think this order has a long way to go before I see these things flying around Fort Hood. As I noted earlier, the timing of the announcement is curious. Congress hasn't even begun to weigh in on the politics except for a few reps from the states where EADS says the assembly will take place. Look for a lot of smoke and fire in the coming months.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
MigFan
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
The USCG is not part of the DoD except in a time of war . . . do the DoD had nothing to do with it.

Touche'

O.K, an aircraft called the "Harrier". It would be nice to see what one would look like in USCG colors. McDD eventually bought the design to fix it and corner the re-supply options. A similar tale could be told about the T-45.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
trex8
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:56 pm

The UH145/EC145 is based on the BK117 which is about the most popular civilian medevac chopper in the US , so its certainly well suited to the program requirements and a large civilian logistical base is present already in the US.

The US Army and other services has had no problems buying non US equipment for years and especially since most of this chopper is going to be assembled in the US and likely to end up mostly being sourced from US suppliers I see no reason why people should be concerned about an "embargo"! Which has never happened between NATO nations anyway. I'd be more concerned about those 155mm light howitzers, the 57mm guns for the littoral combat ships, the Stryker vehicles etc coming from "foreign" suppliers, all those non US sourced parts in the Evolved SeaSparrow Missile would stop that program dead in its track with any embargo etc etc etc. In case some of you missed it the Japanese just recently put a spanner in Pac 3 missile production by delaying supplies of Japanese composite components to Raytheon to make a point to the US about getting more Japanese involvement in TBM defense. AFAIK the Europeans have never done that or even threatened it, and I was with the DoD for 3 years in London coordinating such programs and still hear from people involved.
The Europeans have a much better way to truely hit US combat capabilities than this fleet of UH145s being grounded in the continental US! But they aren't likely to ever do it, or be truely capable of doing it - not unless your disagreement lasts for many years, whereas you can bet good money some of our other "allies" will be more than happy not only to mess up our programs but give out our technical secrets to true enemy nations.
 
Lumberton
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
In case some of you missed it the Japanese just recently put a spanner in Pac 3 missile production by delaying supplies of Japanese composite components to Raytheon to make a point to the US about getting more Japanese involvement in TBM defense.

I did miss this. Could you please provide a link to more info? Thanks.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ANCFlyer
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 20):
but it represented a signficant order nonetheless to a U.S. armed service, which the Coast Guard certainly is.

Considered the 5th Armed Force of the US at this point, they were US Law Enforcement Agency, with powers of arrest, search, seizure, etc and not subject to Posse Comitatus as are the active military forces . . .

Irrelevent really . . .

As was aptly pointed out this would be the first procurement of fireign made materiel for the US Armed Forces . . .

[Edited 2006-07-01 16:27:59]
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Thorny
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):

Here are some pictures of it:
http://www.uh-145.com/about/about_ga...y.htm

Yech! Sure didn't win the contract on looks...  Silly
 
columba
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Thorny (Reply 25):
Yech! Sure didn't win the contract on looks... Silly

It does not look too bad. The EC 145 and the smaller Ec 135 are great helicopters that have a great performance and due to their large cargo doors they offer a big flexibility for transport or as a Medevac helicopter.
I think the US Army bought a great product that will serve them well andth the crews will get a great helicopter that is safe, reliable, good to work with and as much as I heard fun to fly.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
BHMBAGLOCK, got a picture of this new bird? And how much more Gov't $$ can they stand in Huntsville!? I oughta move back there - closer to my Mom!



Quoting Par13del (Reply 9):
Another question, should the US now set up its version of EADS / AIRBUS to protect and ensure that it has a viable helicopter industry going forward?



Absolutely not! This minor spanking will in a few years result in better products from US manufacturers without doubt. This is the very power of free enterprise.

One thing that is missed here is that the competition was specifically limited to OTS models. It really points out the fact that the US manufacturers don't have the best product in this space - doesn't mean we aren't tops in others. What it really shows is that trying to simply milk old designs for all they're worth is not always the best long term strategy.

EADS won this by having a model that was competitive in all areas and clearly superior in one area to all others and another for all but one. Specifically, the rear clam shell doors are a huge advantage for loading litters and with the exception of NOTAR, the high tail rotor gives it a distinct safety advantage in many situations.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 25):
Yech! Sure didn't win the contract on looks... Silly

Neither did the A-10 but it's hard to argue with it's success.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
By cutting off the parts supplies everytime the US and France or Germany disagreed on some international issue.

I don't buy this. Look at the number of foreign made components in US made military aircraft. It's not a whole lot different. Really not even a factor.

This will definitely get Boeing's attention and should increase the chance of seeing a 787 and/or 777 offering for the USAF tanker program. I think it's becoming increasingly clear that this will be a really strong competition. It's also yet another good reason for A to get their sh*t together on the A3?0 so they can be competitive. If they offer up an A330 derivative v 787 it will be DOA.

[Edited 2006-07-01 18:20:30]
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Thorny
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 26):

It does not look too bad.

Eh. That photo really looks like they put lipstick on a pig to me.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 27):
Neither did the A-10 but it's hard to argue with it's success.

Oh, no argument about the aircraft's performance. It was clearly the right machine for the job.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 27):
This will definitely get Boeing's attention and should increase the chance of seeing a 787 and/or 777 offering for the USAF tanker program.

I don't think a 787 Tanker will be in the running, its just too far in the future. KC-767 will probably win simply on a cost point argument, but if the Air Force wants more cargo capacity, they'll go for KC-777. I still don't think there is any chance for KC-30, the Tanker contract is just too high-profile to give it all to EADS, and splitting the tanker fleet among four different aircraft (KC-135, KC-10, KC-767, KC-30) doesn't make any economic sense at all.
 
L-188
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting MigFan (Reply 18):
This is not a completely new idea to U.S. Military spending. What about the USCG? They have been using European aircraft for awhile, Dauphin, Falcon. There had to be some reason to justify the spending while suitable alternatives were available.

Well I have been told that the only other helicopter that entered that competition was the Bell-222 and we would have been buying those from Canada.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
columba
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Thorny (Reply 28):
Eh. That photo really looks like they put lipstick on a pig to me.

Don´ t know what you are having against it. It is a clean, streamline design and it is having the right proportions.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
L-188
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 30):
Don´ t know what you are having against it. It is a clean, streamline design and it is having the right proportions

Sorry but the older BK117 had a better profile IMHO also.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Thorny (Reply 28):

I don't think a 787 Tanker will be in the running, its just too far in the future.

Not if a second line is opened.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 28):
KC-767 will probably win simply on a cost point argument, but if the Air Force wants more cargo capacity, they'll go for KC-777.

Price yes, cost unlikely. However, I do agree that 777 is looking good.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 29):
Well I have been told that the only other helicopter that entered that competition was the Bell-222 and we would have been buying those from Canada.

You were told wrong, four entries were made. In addition to EADS, it was the MD-900, Bell 210, and Agusta AW139. Sikorsky may be the real winner as they will be providing post sale support which may be the most lucrative part of the contract.

Here's what "anti-Airbus/EADS" analyst Aboulafia has to say on the subject:

Quote:
Defense analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Virginia-based Teal Group said the selection of EADS amounted to "a solid endorsement of globalization," as well as the UH-145, to be built by American Eurocopter in Columbus, Mississippi.

"This is a real endorsement of EADS' U.S. market strategy," said Aboulafia. "And it sure beats waiting for the German and French defense ministries to spend any money."


[Edited 2006-07-01 19:40:17]
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
L-188
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:40 am

Actually I was referring to the competition where the USCG picked up the HH-65
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CTR
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:16 am

I wish EADS the best of luck in pleasing the US military with the EC-145. I have flown and on a worked a little with the 145. In its class there is currently nothing with better interior volume or cabin flexibility. Especially for EMS work.

But I fear that the military will be a much harder operator on these birds that commercial EMS operators. If the military finds the operating costs and down time for the 145 exceeds EADS promised performance, I would not be surprised to find the competition reopened in a year or so. By then the new Bell 429 will be certified which was designed from the ground up to compete against the 145.

http://www.aviationnews.com.au/News_..._Stories/0059938-Bell429Orders.htm

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 33):
Actually I was referring to the competition where the USCG picked up the HH-65

On a second look, you obviously were. My mistake.

Quoting CTR (Reply 34):
If the military finds the operating costs and down time for the 145 exceeds EADS promised performance, I would not be surprised to find the competition reopened in a year or so. By then the new Bell 429 will be certified which was designed from the ground up to compete against the 145.

One of the great things about a true COTS competition is that the gov doesn't have to worry about amortizing a huge development budget over the life of the program. This is a relatively modest buy of 300+ frames. Clearly there will be more needed and it's likely that a new competition will be opened. Likewise, by using FAA certified aircraft they can get some significant money back if they sell them off mid-life plus increase the chances of low wear related downtime.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
trex8
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23):
I did miss this. Could you please provide a link to more info? Thanks.

can't find it on AWST on line but its page 23 in their June 26 print edition
 
L-188
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 35):
ikewise, by using FAA certified aircraft they can get some significant money back if they sell them off mid-life plus increase the chances of low wear related downtime.

The problem with selling off surplus isn't if they are based on a FAA type cert. Where the problem comes in is documenting any repairs made to the aircraft, and any modifications that are made during it's life and parts history.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bhmbaglock
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 37):
The problem with selling off surplus isn't if they are based on a FAA type cert. Where the problem comes in is documenting any repairs made to the aircraft, and any modifications that are made during it's life and parts history.

I read somewhere that this is part of the plan for this program. Should be interesting to see how it works out.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
NoUFO
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 16):
But nothing beats the Dauphins we used to have.

As far as I know, Dauphins are fuel-guzzlers compared to the EC145.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 22):
The Europeans have a much better way to truely hit US combat capabilities than this fleet of UH145s being grounded in the continental US!

Indeed. The EC145 is not a military but a paramilitary helicopter at best. Our police (with the exception of a number of Dauphins for the Federal police) is using that thing as well as hospitals and the like.
A halt to the parts supplies (even if possible) would mostly harm Germany and France, so no worries.  Wink
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AirRyan
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
*Yes, I know it's going to built in Columbus, and by US workers (Mississippi workers of course

As I understand it according to the June 19th issue of Aviation Week, thye said that the EC-145 "if selected, American Eurocopter's 18-month plan would be to reassemble production UH-145's shipped in from the current Eurocopter factory in Donauwörth near Munich, then to phase-in production at an expansion of the American Eurocopter facility in Columbus, Mississippi."

Not that it matters to me to buy a German made platform, but just how much will actually be made in the US? To me, it's like buying a Porsche vs. a Corvette, win-win to me. The UH-72A - how did they come to that designation?

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 20):
I still think this order has a long way to go before I see these things flying around Fort Hood.

That will be interesting to see, indeed - I still have fond memories of doing my private pilot's license over Stillhouse lake and looing out to my port wing and seeing a Huey pass me by as I'm performing an MCA manuever - oh those C-152's are so fast!

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 36):
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 23):
I did miss this. Could you please provide a link to more info? Thanks.

can't find it on AWST on line but its page 23 in their June 26 print edition

Excellent article and pictures - highly reccommend the issue for those interested in this aircraft - it's just like a nice Motor Trend article on your favorite new ride and shows what they will look like under US Army colors (minus the US Army logo of course!)

[Edited 2006-07-02 05:32:19]
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 40):
That will be interesting to see, indeed - I still have fond memories of doing my private pilot's license over Stillhouse lake and looing out to my port wing and seeing a Huey pass me by as I'm performing an MCA manuever - oh those C-152's are so fast!

First delivery is due in November this year!

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 40):
Not that it matters to me to buy a German made platform, but just how much will actually be made in the US?

From the info below it sounds like the plan is to have as much made in the US as possible as soon as possible.

Quote:
Production of the UH-145 - a customized version of Eurocopter's EC145 multi-mission helicopter, currently built in Germany - will be transferred to Columbus in a series of steps that begins with partial assembly, followed by full assembly and the subsequent U.S. manufacture of major subsystems.

American Eurocopter's expansion of the 92,000-sq.-ft. Columbus facility will begin almost immediately, with its size at least tripling to accommodate the UH-145 program activity. Employment will grow by approximately 250 persons, bringing it to more than 360. "This is a major step ahead for the Mississippi facility and fully in line with the worldwide industrial deployment strategy of Eurocopter, which consists in developing long-term industrial partnerships with major customer nations", said Fabrice Bregier.

EADS North America and Eurocopter have made a significant commitment to the UH-145 program, with the first helicopter already in assembly for delivery to the Army this November. In addition, components have been allocated for the manufacture of seven more UH-145s.

What's interesting to me is that it sounds as though EC-145 won't be parallel produced in MS. The wording of the press release sounds like all production of this model will shift to the US. If so then this is significant.

[Edited 2006-07-02 06:08:02]
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AirRyan
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:50 pm

Here we go...

Quote:
The UH-145’s industrial activity will be centered at American Eurocopter’s Columbus, Mississippi facility, which is to undergo a major expansion to accommodate the Light Utility Helicopter program. The Production line of the UH-145 – a version of Eurocopter’s EC145 multi-mission helicopter, currently built in Germany – will be duplicated in Columbus through a series of steps that begins with partial assembly, followed by full assembly and the subsequent U.S. manufacture of major subsystems.

http://www.eurocopterusa.com/Media/P...sDetail.asp?ID=36&ID2=FeatureStory
 
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glideslope
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:54 pm

This is a good contract. The EC145 is the best out there for this mission.

Having a good working relationship with EU Vendors may be very helpful down the road.

Of course we can all hope for peace in the region.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
dl021
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:13 am

I'm happy about the selection of this aircraft. I've seen these helos working as medevacs and they have lifting capacity and speed. If I had to equate this to a car it's a G-Wagon. It'll go and haul, and do it everyday without complaining or sucking up too much maintenance. They can use any helo they want for the pediatric trauma unit down the street, they use this one's brother because it works the best.

I'm sort of ashamed that our aviation industry can't seem to produce something either new or superior to what's out there on the market for this piece of equipment. But then, I'm still surprised that Bell won the ARH contract over MD which seemed to have the superior product for that job. Trying to inflict remanufactured Hueys or 412s for this job (see the problems using Griffons) was inadequate.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 20):
I still think this order has a long way to go before I see these things flying around Fort Hood.

Sometime around December you'll probably see some flying over Killeen. the Army can pretty much replace the remaining UH-1s and deploy the UH-60 force more effectively with this airplane fitting into the works.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
As was aptly pointed out this would be the first procurement of fireign made materiel for the US Armed Forces . .

Beretta, Agusta, Aerospatiale, BAe, RACAL, H&K amongst others. You used to fire Rheinmittal cannons from behind Chobham armor. You're correct....if it's the best by test then that's what I want equipping our forces...regardless where it comes from. If we can build it here and ensure spares/support then more power to us....get 'em and use 'em.
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UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
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EADS Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
Sikorsky have not been very innovative over the last decades.

Sikorsky did not bid for this contract. They're quite busy with the new Mike model transitions for our 'hawks.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 15):
BTW, does anyone else find the timing of this announcement curious? A late announcement on Friday , before a long weekend when Congress will be out for the holiday next week? Congress can still kill this, or hold it hostage to other "terms"...

Not really... two of the four manufactures bidding for this contract were foreign companies. And while the Augusta never truly stood a chance... the UH145 was a top competitor. The Army said from day one that they really liked what EADS was offering and that the other three companies were going to have to out-shine EADS.

Quoting MigFan (Reply 18):
Who were the competition?

Four companies made bids:

Bell 412:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/UH60PilotIraq/Random/bell-412_027.jpg

AugustaWestland AB139:


Eurocopter EH145:


Lockheed and MD Helicopter 900 (NOTAR):


Quoting CTR (Reply 34):
But I fear that the military will be a much harder operator on these birds that commercial EMS operators.

Look, I think a lot of people are forgetting the purpose of these helicopters!!

We will NOT be deploying these helicopters, let alone using them in combat. These birds will replace STATESIDE helicopter fleets. This helicopter will free up all of the 'hawks being used to transport generals and high ranking officials. This helicopter will replace stateside med-evac units who are still using Vietnam era Hueys. These helicopters will replace the aging Vietnam era Hueys and Kiowas being used to assist state based drug interdiction programs. And the VAST majority of these helicopters will be assigned to the National Guard. They will not be going to combat. They will not be deployed outside of the US.

So this whole argument about "If we get into a conflict that Europe doesn't support, they will cut off the supplies of spares and parts" is moot.

It is a fantastic helicopter and the way the Army approached this deal was less like a military branch and more like a major corporation. And as they should have! This isn't a truly military helicopter - it's closer to the civilian side than anything else. The Army asked, "What helicopter will give us the best economics and for the specific role we need to fill?"

And they chose well.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
CTR
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RE: Eads Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 45):
Look, I think a lot of people are forgetting the purpose of these helicopters!!

UH60, I think you are quoting me out of context. If the 145s are used in the military the same as in commercial EMS operations, I think the DOD will be a happy customer.

But do you really think the military is going to treat these birds with the care of commercial operators who worry about resale value and restrict filghts to a minimum to keep the hours down. I have seen the beating the Kiowas take doing just training flights at Ft. Rucker. A gorilla with a baseball bat would cause less damage.

But maybe the 145 is tougher than I think. Time will tell.

Have fun,

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
bhmbaglock
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Eads Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 45):
Sikorsky did not bid for this contract.

Actually they're a major part of the winning bid.
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MigFan
Posts: 710
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RE: Eads Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 45):
They will not be going to combat. They will not be deployed outside of the US.

What if they are needed abroad? What happens if they do have to go into combat. Shaping a purchase around a defined set of future actions seems very limiting, and could be a negative to the service.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Eads Wins US Helicopter Contract

Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting CTR (Reply 46):

CTR - sorry, I messed up and accidently quoted you when I wanted to quote someone else. If you read my response, you'll see it had almost nothing to do with your quote. Sorry about that.

Quoting MigFan (Reply 48):

What if they are needed abroad? What happens if they do have to go into combat. Shaping a purchase around a defined set of future actions seems very limiting, and could be a negative to the service.

What do you mean "abroad" - might they go to Korea, Germany, Italy, etc...? Possibly. Will they go to Iraq, Afghanistan or any future area of conflict? Quite simply put: NO.

They will be replacing all of our aging Hueys and Kiowas. Are those going into combat? No. Actually what we're finding is that units are taking fully operational UH-60s and CH-47s, and using to to do stateside med-evac/crash rescue, staff transportation, drug interdiction, homeland security ops, etc... because the Hueys are being phased out. Those are 'hawks and 'hooks that could be over in Iraq fighting the war.

So no, they will not be "combat" birds. They will be stateside utility birds. And that's a good thing, because they will be freeing the combat birds, and allowing them to actually GO to combat!

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.

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