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Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:19 am

From Seattle-PI:

Quote:
The Boeing Co. told the Air Force that it's shutting down the C-17 transport production line because the service does not plan to buy additional aircraft.

The company has enough orders to keep its Long Beach, Calif., plant open through the end of 2008 but will start informing its suppliers Aug. 18 "to stop work and begin the shutdown process," Boeing C-17 manager David Bowman wrote Monday to Air Force officials.

So, is this a negotiating ploy, or is the real thing?
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scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:53 am

My be bluster - but isn't this built at Long Beach which Boeing want to sell off for re-development?
 
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:35 am

Yes, it is built at Long Beach. I'm sure Boeing would rather have an order to build another 120 or so of them, but they won't keep the doors opened forever waiting for the orders. As you say, land in Long Beach is very valuable and selling it would get a lot of underutilized capital off the books.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
Lumberton
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:51 am

If the line shuts, could the tooling be stored and the line re-opened elsewhere if more orders materialize a few years hence?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:52 am

Well Australia, Canada, and the UK have their orders coming in and/or done so the USAF is most likely the only other candidate. By 2010 I would expect new condos and retail to be going up in Long Beach.


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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
My be bluster - but isn't this built at Long Beach which Boeing want to sell off for re-development?

Boeing is selling off the commercial side of it's operations at LGB. The C-17 line is on the other side of the field up against the 5 freeway. If I'm not mistaken Boeing would have to get permission from the DOD before it were to sell of the C-17 facility.
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CTR
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:31 am

McDonnell Douglas considered selling the Long Beach facility 15 years ago, but the EPA put a halt to it.

Before selling the Long Beach property, Boeing will have to decontaminate the soil of oil, solvent and who knows what polution that has been accumulating for over 50 years. This will cost a fortune.

Have fun,

CTR
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting CTR (Reply 6):
Before selling the Long Beach property, Boeing will have to decontaminate the soil of oil, solvent and who knows what polution that has been accumulating for over 50 years. This will cost a fortune.

Have fun,

It's Southern California. You wouldn't even have to bother with a "for sale" sign...
 
LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting CTR (Reply 6):
Before selling the Long Beach property, Boeing will have to decontaminate the soil of oil, solvent and who knows what polution that has been accumulating for over 50 years. This will cost a fortune.

That's what they are doing as we speak, or type in this case.

http://www.douglaspark.org/
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dacman
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:29 pm

Um......it's the 405 that borders the C-17A factory.

Yes, when the doors close after the current orders are filled then the C-17A facilities will meet the same fate as the commercial side.......land used for mixed commercial and residential.......and Boeing still makes money as they collect the rent checks.

It will be a sad day for us here in Long Beach when Boeing shuts down the last of the great Douglas line......its full intention since 1997.

Mike
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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Dacman (Reply 9):
Um......it's the 405 that borders the C-17A factory.

You are correct. Having driven that route for a year and a half you figure I would have remebered that!
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Dougloid
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Dacman (Reply 9):
Um......it's the 405 that borders the C-17A factory.

Yes, when the doors close after the current orders are filled then the C-17A facilities will meet the same fate as the commercial side.......land used for mixed commercial and residential.......and Boeing still makes money as they collect the rent checks.

It will be a sad day for us here in Long Beach when Boeing shuts down the last of the great Douglas line......its full intention since 1997.

Mike
Dacman
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Right on, DACman....I've done my grieving and bitching-my subconscious finally got around to telling me that it was over so I blogged about it June 20..... Talk about a fucking train wreck in slo mo....I still wear my Local 148 pin...

http://cornponepapers.blogspot.com/

Long Beach and the surrounding areas have not been well served by their representatives in Congress...when I lived there Todd was going under and nobody gave a rat's ass about the worker bees. CARB did in all the furniture factories up north Long Beach and south central way a long time ago. I think the Long Beach Naval Shipyard is gone. Feinstein and Boxer haven't done a thing to save the goddamn jobs and never did. Coupla dumb cunts if you ask me-fer chrissakes I live in Iowa now...2.5 million people in the whole state and we've got more horsepower in Washington with Harkin and Grassley than the entire state of California.

Hell, do you know I've got a Douglas vendor's manual somewhere? Douglas wanted to get down to 3,000 vendors-the multiplier effect was phenomenal. They had small job shops all over the area that had been happily turning out parts since the 1940s. The social scientists tell us that one good job produces another two or three in the community.

That's over on the north side of the airport where all those cool old oil patch people did business. there were a couple magneto shops over there back in the day, Steward Davis, Rajay and I don't know who all else were on Daugherty Field.

It IS Earl Daugherty Field, by the way.
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RAPCON
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
So, is this a negotiating ploy, or is the real thing?

It's only Boeing crying wolf, so that the USAF can go off like chicken little to Congress screaming that if more C-17's aren't ordered the whole World is going to come crashing down.

Guess what? It'll probably work. USAF will get the OK to order more (and who knows, maybe France will wake up and order C-17's too--just like they finally broke down and bought a bit more than a dozen 130's).
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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
I think the Long Beach Naval Shipyard is gone.

The Long Beach Naval Shipyard has been closed for around ten years now.
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Lumberton
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
, maybe France will wake up and order C-17's too-

I'm curious as to why Japan isn't on the "short list"? I would have thought they'd be interested in a squadron?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
CTR
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:26 am

LMP737,

Thanks for the link. Interesting explanation on pollution in the FAQ site:

Q. Is the soil on the site safe for homes, schools, and businesses?
A. As one would expect of a 60-year old manufacturing facility, the site does have environmental contamination that requires remediation. Active characterizations and remediation have been ongoing since 1997. These efforts have resulted in the Regional Water Quality Control Board granting "no further action" letters for a majority of the commercial and residential property currently being redeveloped. Groundwater remediation will continue for many years to come.

I am sure this will be on the front page of every new home brochure
 biggrin 

Have fun,

CTR
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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting CTR (Reply 15):
Thanks for the link. Interesting explanation on pollution in the FAQ site:

Having worked both military and commercial aviation, including time at Long Beach, and listened to the stories from the old timers about what they used to do I would be a bit hesitant to buy a home at a former a/c manufacturing site of military base. But that's just me.  Wink
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:12 am

I thought the Douglas park project only included the B-717-200 (MD-95) facilities, not the C-17A facilities (on the other side of the airport)?

http://www.douglaspark.org/about_location.html

See the maps at the bottom of the page.
 
RAPCON
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 14):
I'm curious as to why Japan isn't on the "short list"? I would have thought they'd be interested in a squadron?

JSDF is restricted by constitution to operate within a 600 nm radius of Japan --exception is "humanitarian missions" such as Cambodia or Iraq (they only provide civil engineering troops so it's considered "humanitarian".

So for such a small OPAREA, a 130-type is ideal.
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Dougloid
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
Guess what? It'll probably work. USAF will get the OK to order more (and who knows, maybe France will wake up and order C-17's too--just like they finally broke down and bought a bit more than a dozen 130's).

The French could do a lot worse than the C17. There's nothing out there in current production from reliable sources that'll haul an all up main battle tank ready to rock, and operate out of a 5,000 foot unimproved field at the same time. The A400M won't do that and it's still only a gleam in Airbus' eye.
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LMP737
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
I thought the Douglas park project only included the B-717-200 (MD-95) facilities, not the C-17A facilities (on the other side of the airport)?

Yes, the Douglas Park project is for the commercial side of Boeing operations at LGB. When I said military bases I was refering to places like MCAS El Toro.
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stormbringer
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 4):
Well Australia, Canada, and the UK have their orders coming in and/or done

Canada has yet to finalize any orders on C-17s, though I can't see the C-17 having any serious competitors. The AN-124 would be a real longshot.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1969
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Devilfish
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:24 am

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
RAPCON
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting Stormbringer (Reply 21):
Canada has yet to finalize any orders on C-17s

Just working out the details!
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flynlr
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
Boeing is selling off the commercial side of it's operations at LGB. The C-17 line is on the other side of the field up against the 5 freeway. If I'm not mistaken Boeing would have to get permission from the DOD before it were to sell of the C-17 facility.

you mean the 405 freeway right? the 5 is several miles away  Silly
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ebj1248650
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
It's only Boeing crying wolf, so that the USAF can go off like chicken little to Congress screaming that if more C-17's aren't ordered the whole World is going to come crashing down.

Makes more sense that Boeing would approach the AF and ask if there are intentions to buy more C-17s. Get the AF answer first then declare intent to close. Declaring intent to close this soon seems a bad way to approach the customer.
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kaitak
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:50 pm

Interesting report in Flight International this week; August 18th - or Thursday week - appears to be D Day for the C-17. Other sales are being looked at - a joint Nato force, and Sweden (!) ...

Also of interest is the fact that the USAF has apparently rejected the C130J for its uplift plans. The C-235 has also been rejected and the air force (and army) are proceeding with a decision between the C-27 and the C-295. Lockheed is apparently protesting the decision.
 
texfly101
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
If the line shuts, could the tooling be stored and the line re-opened elsewhere if more orders materialize a few years hence?

Yes, that's one of the options. Its being described as a "warm line" in which the tooling will be stored rather than destroyed, and certain suppliers will be held in the same status. But as always, there is a cost associated with that and the AF will have to cover that cost. I would doubt that this option will be chosen. The C-130 is in the same position, although its date is about a year out. The timing of closing these lines might just leave the US without a transport production line. As AvWeek stated in an article "Tenuous Transports", 7/24/06, the A400M might be the only military transport in production and A is taking as much advantage as possible. Both LM and B are producing planes with no obligated customers. So with that considered, its not just a ploy by B, its real. The suppliers all have a "shut the line down" clause of how far in advance they require this notice in order that B not incur penalties. With no one willing to sign on the dotted line, B has to say to its suppliers, shut it down, or be willing to bear the cost of having a white tail plane.

Quoting CTR (Reply 6):
Before selling the Long Beach property, Boeing will have to decontaminate the soil of oil, solvent and who knows what polution that has been accumulating for over 50 years. This will cost a fortune.

As is the case at any long time manufacturing facility that operated prior to environmental regulations, there will be contamination. Full Level I and Level II Environmental assessments will be done as a requirement to shut down the site. Then the environmental testing, remediation and disposal plans are determined and approved by all agencies concerned. Any property sale will require full remediation of any determined contamination or escrow moneys to be held before sale of the property. Sometimes it better just to hold the property rather than sell it. The former McD Tomohawk plant in Titusville is in this situation. The asbestos in the building might mean that tearing it down rather than remediation is the answer. And its very expensive either way. So it just sits until whoever wants it decides whats best for the building and site.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:47 pm

Quoting Dacman (Reply 9):
It will be a sad day for us here in Long Beach when Boeing shuts down the last of the great Douglas line......its full intention since 1997.

Sad yes, though I doubt Boeing wanted to kill the C-17. They make a killing off each of them - something in the ballpark of $200 Million each.

Now the MD-11 and the 717 are a whole other story.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing Tells Usaf The C-17 Line Is Closing

Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:31 am

This puts the USAF in a barrel, too. With the thought of a C-17 line shut down, USAF will have to decide what airplane is needed more. The USAF wants (and needs) more C-17s, about 44 additional airplanes. But if Congress lets these airplanes to be bought, they will have to come out of a new tanker buy, reducing the number of those airplanes (possible even eliminating the KC-X program).

But, the USAF can still do what they want, buy the additional 44 C-17s and improve the tanker force by converting the KC-135E to KC-135R.

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