Lumberton
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Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:21 pm

http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp...ies_to_be_1824_months_late__report

Quote:
PARIS (AFX) - Deliveries of the Airbus A400M military transport aircraft being developed by EADS(European Aeronautics Defence and Space Company) are likely to be between 18 and 24 months behind schedule, La Tribune financial daily reported, citing industry sources.

Deliveries could even be delayed by as much as three years according to the most pessimistic estimate, the report said.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Ozair
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:38 pm

This will see the end of any EADS law suit against the canadians.
 
columba
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:39 pm

I was already expecting a delay - especially in Europe all big defence programmes have faced delays.
In fact the German military should already use Eurofighters, NH 90s and Tigers in high numbers  Wink
Maybe now we will see the lease of 4-6 C-130Js for the German Airforce to replace some of the older the C-160 Transalls.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm

Is anybody even a little surprised? Might help sell a few more C-17s though over the next year or two.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
dl021
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:16 pm

More good news for the C-130J. Too bad EADS can't seem to get their act in gear. Lots of air forces could use this airplane. It may turn into good news for the C-17 line. Several nations will have to make decisions soon about their strategic transport needs and EADS is making it easier for them.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:05 pm

For what it's worth, Boeing is going to announce a C-17 deal today. I assume they're referring to Canada.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
GBan
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:42 pm

Complicated IFE wiring?

 

[Edited 2006-07-19 16:43:09]
 
Lumberton
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:49 am

Airbus is now denying the report.
http://business.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1051272006

Quote:
FARNBOROUGH (Reuters) - Airbus Military said on Wednesday its A400M airlifter programme was on schedule and that top management at parent EADS was focussed on the project despite a crisis at commercial planemaker Airbus.

"We are on time," Richard Thompson, senior vice president - commercial at Airbus Military, told reporters at the Farnborough International Airshow on Wednesday.

French newspaper La Tribune had reported that the A400M faced delays of 18 to 24 months -- up to three years in a worst-case scenario -- citing several industry sources.

Remember, I'm just the messenger. Don't shoot!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
dl021
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 am

I did see in the Airbus article that they were admitting to some "supplier" problems but that EADS is "meeting all contractual obligations".

It sounds a little like defensive nonspeak designed to buy some time to let the dust settle a little so they can isolate the A400 issues.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
Airbus is now denying the report

Yeah, just like they did with the A-380  duck 
One Nation Under God
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 2):



Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
I was already expecting a delay - especially in Europe all big defence programmes have faced delays.

Aren't all miltary aircraft projects delayed not just the European ones?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 10):
Aren't all miltary aircraft projects delayed not just the European ones?

Right. When no surprises show up, then delivery is on time. But there are a zillion things which can produce a surprise.

When one surprise shows up, then delivery will be late.

Still, if the A300M comes out with "only" 18-24 months delay, then that will be a lot better than the C-130J.

But that't long time ago and almost forgotten. Except by those Royal Danish Air Force mechanics who struggled so hard overtime to keep their old C-130Hs flyable years after planned retirement.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 11):
Still, if the A300M comes out with "only" 18-24 months delay, then that will be a lot better than the C-130J.

Or the British Chinooks which I belive still do not work as planned some 6 years after first delivery
 
Lumberton
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 10):
ren't all miltary aircraft projects delayed not just the European ones?



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 11):
Still, if the A300M comes out with "only" 18-24 months delay, then that will be a lot better than the C-130J.
But that't long time ago and almost forgotten. Except by those Royal Danish Air Force mechanics who struggled so hard overtime to keep their old C-130Hs flyable years after planned retirement.

Quite right. However, comforting as it maybe to console oneself with comparisons to past programs, EADS can hardly afford the "everybody does it" approach to potential customers. If they bungle this program, then they will have a "Son of A380" public relations nightmare on their hands.

I'm sure a.netters are mindful that there are rough equivilents in military transport available NOW. It appears Canada has made a decision. Denmark is looking at options, viz., the C-17.

I submit comparisons to delays of past programs aren't relevant. It's strictly a case of "what have you done for me lately" or "what can you do for me now".
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 3):
Is anybody even a little surprised? Might help sell a few more C-17s though over the next year or two.

Don't dream too much and too fast. In Europe, we got too some senses of patriotism.
 
agill
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 14):

Don't dream too much and too fast. In Europe, we got too some senses of patriotism.

Well Denmark was interested weren't they, and I know Sweden was/is but it got delayed by the leftist government. And england is already committed to buying aren't they, or is it just a loan?
 
RAPCON
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 14):
Don't dream too much and too fast. In Europe, we got too some senses of patriotism.

But even that sense patriotism did not stop the AdlA from finally seeing the light and ordering a bunch of C-130's approximately 30 years after they were first offered!!!

C'mon!! Don't tell me that you would not want to see the flightlines at Orleans and Evreux full of C-17's in red/white/blue roundels????

Just call 1-800-GLOBEMASTER!!!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 16):
C'mon!! Don't tell me that you would not want to see the flightlines at Orleans and Evreux full of C-17's in red/white/blue roundels????

Hell no, I would be too afraid that they crash on my home.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 17):
Hell no, I would be too afraid that they crash on my home.

You'll have to wait a while there buckaroo. I do not think that one has been lost as of yet....I could be wrong now, but I don't think so.

Even when you all get the A400M (which should be a dandy airplane), will it carry an all up LeClerc MBT? See, because if it doesn't and you need to move one into a hot zone on short notice you'll have to rent space to do it-something I just gotta think you all don't like much, specially from a buncha snotty yanquis.

Don't kid yourself. The C17 is in a class by itself. There is nothing else that can do the job it is designed to do, which is to put an all up MBT on the ground and operate out of a 5,000 foot unimproved runway.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 14):
Don't dream too much and too fast. In Europe, we got too some senses of patriotism.

I am patriotic but that has nothing to do with my statement whatsoever. Noting that this could help C-17 sales was a simple observation that is likely to be correct. It won't sell 50 more copies but it could sell 10-15 easily. The past 5 years has demonstrated very clearly to many countries just how deficient their capabilities for strategic airlift are. Many have chosen the A400 to solve this problem, in some cases making a conscious decision to wait longer than they would care to but on the whole finding this the preferred solution. Add another 1.5-2 years to the equation and it changes the math, simple as that.

Don't try to make this a Europe v America thing, it isn't.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 17):
ell no, I would be too afraid that they crash on my home.

Want to cite an example of a C-17 crashing into homes, or are you just being a .... ?

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 11):
A300M

I thought this was about the A-400M program?  duck  The A-300 goes out of production next year.

While it is true most defense programs (US and European) run into delays, it is not usually when the design is frozen and they are about to build the pre-production protoype.

If this story is true, then it tells me there is something seriously wrong with the design, that was recently found by one or more of the Air Force customers.
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 20):
Want to cite an example of a C-17 crashing into homes, or are you just being a .... ?

Just a way to said that not only in the US planes are built. In Europe also we can make quality planes and we don't necessary need hardware from abroad.
 
RAPCON
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 23):
Just a way to said that not only in the US planes are built. In Europe also we can make quality planes and we don't necessary need hardware from abroad.

....I'll make sure to quote you when the USAF (and the politicians) nix any possible chances of the KC30 wearing the stars & bars on its fuselage. After all, we also make "quality planes" in the US, and we "don't necessary need hardware from abroad."

There is no doubt that the A400M can't even come up to the shoelace of a C-17. And the KC30 may actually be superior to the KC767. But come decision time on the KC, I'll follow your lead, and make sure that my representatives get an earful of me come selection time.

pssst: I'm going with B on the KC!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 23):
Just a way to said that not only in the US planes are built. In Europe also we can make quality planes and we don't necessary need hardware from abroad.

By sinking to the level of those who say European goods are shit...yup, immaturity comes in BOTH forms of the "red, white, and blue"...

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 24):
nix any possible chances of the KC30 wearing the stars & bars on its fuselage.

Listen to him folks...he's absolutly right! After all, "stars and bars" refers to the flag of the Confederate States of America...which thanks to a one Mr. Abraham Lincoln, thankfully doesn't exist, and is thus NOT shopping for a tanker to begin with.  mischievous 

Try Stars and Stripes.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 24):
After all, we also make "quality planes" in the US, and we "don't necessary need hardware from abroad."

Take the high ground...there's ZERO need for this.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:39 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 24):
But come decision time on the KC, I'll follow your lead, and make sure that my representatives get an earful of me come selection time.

You didn’t need to wait for me. Looks at what it is going now for the UH-145 LUH and then don't come to me to give some lessons. I do remember well the replied of one A.neter on the starter thread about the UH-145, that let's wait when the congress will come back from holydays and this contract will blow off. So, I think I am not the only one to think this way when it is coming to military hardware.
 
columba
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:51 pm

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 25):

Listen to him folks...he's absolutly right! After all, "stars and bars" refers to the flag of the Confederate States of America...which thanks to a one Mr. Abraham Lincoln, thankfully doesn't exist, and is thus NOT shopping for a tanker to begin with. mischievous

The south will rise again  Wink Maybe they try a second approach and do some shopping in Europe right now  Wink
After all the EADS plant for the KC 30 and the UH 145 will be in Alabama.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
GDB
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:58 pm

A400M is not supposed to directly compete with C-17.
Though for some, it will be seen as potentially an affordable alternative, that is an improvement on the C-130J-which has been the military transport delay scandal of recent times.
The RAF plan to retain C-17's alongside A400M.

C-130J operators in smaller airforces, like Denmark, well a C-17 buy could make sense for them.
Long term C-130 operators like Canada, with a clear and quite urgent need, ditto.

But in all this, what do we have?
Only one report in what looks like a non aviation specialised report, with a denial in a very public forum.

Some, like those who have a childish and tourettes like dislike for ANY non US aircraft, who has never added any value to this site, such as DAYflyer, have no idea if this is true, but neither does anyone.
(Enjoy the last few days of Farnborough DAYflyer?)

We shall see.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
Some, like those who have a childish and tourettes like dislike for ANY non US aircraft, who has never added any value to this site, such as DAYflyer, have no idea if this is true, but neither does anyone.
(Enjoy the last few days of Farnborough DAYflyer?)

Wow! Speaking of "childish"....  Yeah sure
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
pavlin
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:35 pm

A400M is a political airplane. Airbus wants to like Boeing with all that military stuff
 
GDB
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:27 am

I know Lumberton, I'm just sick of those who only ever post snide comments and links from whatever analyst spouts that might seem to back up the snide comment.
This part of the site is usually free of them, then THAT name appeared, I respect people who post thought provoking or just plain new info, not the legion of wannabe National Enquirer hacks.

Pavlin-ALL military aircraft are political.
 
David L
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 30):
Airbus wants to like Boeing with all that military stuff

EADS Military is a conglomeration and evolution of European manufacturers who've been making military aircraft as long as Boeing have. Were you not aware that European countries were producing military aircraft before the A400M?
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
a childish and tourettes like dislike

No offense there friend but if I had tourette's I'd be insulted and offended.

I know one guy who has tourette's here. He's also a judge. Put you in your place, he will, especially if he gets the idea you don't know anything about tourettes and are goofing on him.

Suggestion? Pick a better vehicle for your critique.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
texfly101
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
If this story is true, then it tells me there is something seriously wrong with the design

Its my understanding that there's nothing major wrong with the design, its just that they are having trouble meeting weight and range due to scope creep. The Germans have asked for a higher cargo weight to be able to carry one of their tanks AND the support equipment. So the lift capability had to be raised. Along with that, extra fuel was added in order to meet a revised British (I might be mistaken as to nation on this one) range requirement. So the first thing that they are trying is to reduce weight (naturally) before going thru some redesign...which is probably inevitable. So their engineers are working away in order to satisfy their customer's needs. As is sometimes typical of military programs, the services, when they see the actual design, can go, "well, we've changed our mind and need changes..." The Germans, when they saw that the tank wouldn't have support equipment traveling with it, decided that they needed it anyway. So nothing wrong with the design there. But I do feel that the problems with the program really says that we should keep the C-17 line open. Nothing to compare with that plane right now and also nothing in the near future.
 
L-188
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 17):
Hell no, I would be too afraid that they crash on my home.

Your thinking of Concorde.

But is the French Air Force not happy with their Stretched C-130's they got a few years back?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
columba
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 30):
A400M is a political airplane. Airbus wants to like Boeing with all that military stuff

Ever heard of the C-160 Transall ? It flew even before the first Airbus was assembled. You are right that it is a political plane but it has nothing to do with Airbus wanting to be like Boeing but with the Europeans putting their eggs together in one basket.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
But is the French Air Force not happy with their Stretched C-130's they got a few years back?

Yes, I heard about it but this time the French authorities are going all the way with the A400M because, as many have said previously, it is a political plane and because, I believe, it will be a great plane.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:39 pm

For the information of all:

Airbus has emphatically denied the stories about any delay in deliveries.

Here is a link:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...OC_0_UK-TRANSPORT-AIRBUS-A400M.xml


So all of this was much ado about nothing.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 34):
The Germans have asked for a higher cargo weight to be able to carry one of their tanks AND the support equipment. So the lift capability had to be raised.

How likely is it that the A400M can be scaled to haul a Leopard 2 or 2A5 plus support equipment, considering weight and cube?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
dl021
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 23):
Just a way to said that not only in the US planes are built. In Europe also we can make quality planes and we don't necessary need hardware from abroad.

No..it was a way to insinuate that US built planes would crash into the house. I tried to think of a way that French could be mistranslated the way you say and I could not find a way. So...please refrain from silly licentious comments like that.

Quoting Columba (Reply 27):
and the UH 145 will be in Alabama.

I think it's Mississippi. Close, though. The KC-30 would be in Mobile Alabamdamlama.

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 30):
A400M is a political airplane.

Well, that and it's an airplane that gives them 3/4s of the C-17 capability for 3/4 of the price. Problem is that they need the full hauling capability of the C-17 more than it's rough field capability. And they got the opposite of what they really needed.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
Quoting Tancrede (Reply 17):
Hell no, I would be too afraid that they crash on my home.

Your thinking of Concorde.

Let's all stop with the NonAv crap here.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 39):
How likely is it that the A400M can be scaled to haul a Leopard 2 or 2A5 plus support equipment, considering weight and cube?

I don't think you're going to get a full report until the thing actually comes out, but I don't think it's rated to carry a full up armored (with reactive plates and everything else needed) LeClerc/Leopard/Chieftan.

I do believe that NATO is going to end up buying a dozen or so C-17s for shared use before it's all over.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
bennett123
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:53 am

This can only help the C130J/C17A.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 40):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 39):
How likely is it that the A400M can be scaled to haul a Leopard 2 or 2A5 plus support equipment, considering weight and cube?

I don't think you're going to get a full report until the thing actually comes out, but I don't think it's rated to carry a full up armored (with reactive plates and everything else needed) LeClerc/Leopard/Chieftan.

Of course. I knew the answer to that, I was merely trolling for nummies.


 Wink  Wink  Wink

Now...I worked in product development inspection on the C17 and I shot in a lot of locations for hydraulic components in the tunnel down in the floor. There's a little cart on rails down in there. I got a chance to see the real thing in the factory shortly before I got laid off, and I must tell you, a floor beam that can support an all up M1 Abrams is a floor beam of magnificence.

Somewhere along the line, someone will have to step up to the plate if it's MBTs they want to haul here and there. The C17 is a GOOD airplane for the job it was designed to do.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 27):
UH 145 will be in Alabama.



Quoting DL021 (Reply 40):
I think it's Mississippi. Close, though. The KC-30 would be in Mobile Alabamdamlama.

As DL021 states, the plant is in MS. Possible that the new Engineering Center currently being built in Mobile will have some associated work. The Army program office is in Huntsvile as well.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 40):
I do believe that NATO is going to end up buying a dozen or so C-17s for shared use before it's all over.



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 42):
Of course. I knew the answer to that, I was merely trolling for nummies

You are so sure and full of yourself.
 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Like you heard, the A400M is on shedule and will go strong, much stronger than you would like.
 
RAPCON
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 35):
But is the French Air Force not happy with their Stretched C-130's they got a few years back?

The AdlA got a combo of regular 130's and stretched models. The stretched are not supposed to do combat landings a la Khe San or heavy low altitude work--but that has not stopped the AdlA from doing it. No doubt the AdlA has had fatigue issues on their stretch 130's.
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:27 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 44):
Like you heard, the A400M is on shedule and will go strong, much stronger than you would like.

I'm quite sure it will be a fine aircraft, m'good fellow. Nobody suggested otherwise-in fact, I really couldn't care because we aren't going to buy it here. You folks, on the other hand, have a logistics problem, and that is, how do you drop an all up MBT into a hot zone on a 5,000 foot unimproved field? Right now you do not have anything that'll get r done unless it is on a space available basis from the USAF or charter from the Russians.

The question will be, how do you deal with that? The A400M is not the answer to that question-it's more like a giant economy size C130, which isn't a bad idea.

The original proposition was whether it can be scaled to haul an all up LeClerc, Chieftain, or Leopard II. I think it doubtful.

My old man used to say that that's like trying to carry 8 pounds of sugar in a five pound sack.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Tancrede
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:25 am

With a maximum payload of 30 t, it is clear that it cannot carry any MBTs. But, it is also clear that the Europeans don't see any necessity to send abroad such heavy weapons. The A400M could be seeing as a political statement from most of Europe not to take part in meaningless conflicts well outside our primary interests.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 47):
With a maximum payload of 30 t, it is clear that it cannot carry any MBTs. But, it is also clear that the Europeans don't see any necessity to send abroad such heavy weapons. The

Who said anything about sending them abroad, m'good fellow?

See, it's like this. You build and buy for the maximum tonnage you anticipate, whether it's a dump truck, the family car, or an airplane. You don't take your 150 kilo mother in law for a ride in your BMW Isetta.

Rumor has it that our Canadian colleagues are buying a few, mostly to haul stuff in and out of the Arctic, mining and heavy equipment and the like. As I understand it they have a hundred Leopard 1s, which they can send down from Windsor and annex Detroit any time they like, we wouldn't know the difference.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Tancrede
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 48):
Who said anything about sending them abroad, m'good fellow?

You cannot compare distances and geographical specifics between Canada and Europe. Here, distances are shorts and if we are considering bringing an MBT forward, on a battlefield, then we are talking about a major conflict within Europe, the second World War type. I think, in this case that the all story will be different (And honestly, I don’t even know if that kind of tactical transport would be sound).
But now-a-days, with the kind of conflict we have in mind, out of area operations, the A400M will prove to be enough for its mission or carrying logistics and troops.

BTW, just a question and purely for information (without any back ideas), how many M1s did the C-17 bring on the battlefield during that war in Iraq.
 
agill
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RE: Report: A400 Deliveries Delayed 18-24 Mos

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:09 am

Tancrede: Stop using "Europe" when you mean france. A lot of countries here would love the C-17. Not saying that the A-400 is bad, just that it's a bit limited when we'll start setting up the rapid reaction forces. If the Swedish Airforce feel the need for a C-17 or similar aircraft then I sure a lot of the bigger countries feel that need too.

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