Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:35 pm

Another IAF Apache helicopter has crashed in Israel hitting a powerline, no fatalities reported.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11002
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:40 pm

Fox News is now reporting the crew did not survive. Hezbolah is claiming they shot down the AH-64A. IDF is reporting the first indications seem to point to a mechanical problem caused to accident.
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:50 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:47 pm

Perhaps the IASF should buy some Hinds ???

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Fox News is now reporting the crew did not survive. Hezbolah is claiming they shot down the AH-64A

Actually I'm hearing it's an AH-64D Apache Longbow (113 Sqn). The two that collided last week were As. Officials say whatever happened, it took place too high for the cause to be power lines (Maybe it just hit some on the way down?).

Edit: http://edition.cnn.com/video/player/.../newton.israel.helicopter.crash.ap


LY744.

[Edited 2006-07-24 18:07:16]
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting Migfan (Reply 2):
Perhaps the IASF should buy some Hinds ???

Who the hell are the IASF and why would they need Hinds?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
aislepathlight
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:22 pm

When I googled IASF I got

  • Indian-American Scholarship Fund
  • NATTO - International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)
  • International Shark Attack File

I don't think that was what he meant to say... perhaps IAF? They have Apaches Longbows, which are much nicer. After all, the Russians are replacing theirs, why would someone want to by any?
bleepbloop
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:38 pm

Unfotunatly the initial report was wrong, both pilots died, Zvi Luft and Tom Farkash, may their souls rest in peace.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5212
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4):
Who the hell are the IASF and why would they need Hinds?

Israel Air & Space (or AeroSpace?) Force, a newfangled name. Maybe to distinguish it from India or Indonesia and the other "I" countries' air arms. I assume Migfan was kidding or being ironic.  Smile

[Edited 2006-07-25 09:41:05]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
An225
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:00 am

The Israeli media are reporting that the reason for such a disaster may be :
* Technical malfunction;
* Human error (highly unlikely, if you ask me)
* Friendly fire - the Apache is hit by an MLRS rocket. This sounds crazy but who knows?

The IAF says it couldn't be from Hizbulla fire since this Apache was #2 in the formation.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:46 am

Coincidentaly, both Apache crashes involved high ranking officers in the IDF/AF (O-6). The Colonel involved in the mid-air was injured, the one in yesterday's accident, as we know, perished. The co-pilot in yesterday's crash was Canadian born. Just FYI tidbits.

Quoting An225 (Reply 8):
Friendly fire - the Apache is hit by an MLRS rocket. This sounds crazy but who knows?

Many years ago and IDF/AF F-4E was "shot down" by an artillery shell fired by in a training exercise. The crew survived.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting LY744 (Reply 9):
Many years ago and IDF/AF F-4E was "shot down" by an artillery shell fired by in a training exercise. The crew survived.

And in 1982, an IDF Cobra was accidentally shot down by friendly tank fire. Not sure on the crew status.

Quoting AislepathLight (Reply 5):
When I googled IASF I got



Indian-American Scholarship Fund

NATTO - International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)

International Shark Attack File

I think the last one is the most probable!
The last of the famous international playboys
 
aislepathlight
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 10):

I think the last one is the most probable!

Yeah, that is it! I think our Mig was a little confused!
bleepbloop
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:05 pm

Another helicopter has been hit by a missle and crashed, 5 IAF soldiers onboard, one female, she was a flightmechanic, the first female IDF soldier to be killed in
this war. Hizbollah claim it was a new missle called Waad that brought down the helicopter.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 12):
Hizbollah claim it was a new missle called Waad that brought down the helicopter.

Could have been a lucky shot by an RPG; or an SA-7. More worrisome would be if Syria is supplying the SA-18.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:50 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4):
Who the hell are the IASF and why would they need Hinds?

I am not confused, just adding a bit of irony.

A hind is much more resistant to gound fire (AAA) than an AH-64. Cheaper too.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:31 pm

Quoting LY744 (Reply 9):
Many years ago and IDF/AF F-4E was "shot down" by an artillery shell fired by in a training exercise. The crew survived.

The definition of bad luck. Given the size of an artillery shell, the size of an F-4 and the "size" of the sky. Chances are one to a trillion to get hit ... after that I would definitely become religious!

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4):
Who the hell are the IASF and why would they need Hinds?

Hinds have a good reputation for being quite bullet proof. It doesn't take much to shoot down an Apache, Cobra or whatever western made combat helicopter with a single shot from an AK-47. It needs a bit more to shoot down a Mi-24 ...

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
Could have been a lucky shot by an RPG; or an SA-7. More worrisome would be if Syria is supplying the SA-18.

Though it would be worrisome, it doesn't change much much for the Israeli pilots. They anticipate to be engaged with SA-7s anyway ... To know that there are SA-18s on the ground probably just makes them more focused ...
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:55 pm

Lumb, I read in Israeli media that the helicopter has just dropped off 35 IDF soldiers into Lebanon and just flown 20 seconds when it was hit.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:30 pm

[quote=Alessandro,reply=16]
Yes, I saw that as well. Apparently there were 5 crew members still onboard when it went down. The news over here has reported that the bodies weren't recovered so I would guess that it's in Hizbollah held territory.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:17 pm

With at least 35 IDF soldiers on the ground? I think they probably was burnt to
beyond recognition?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 18):
With at least 35 IDF soldiers on the ground? I think they probably was burnt to beyond recognition?

Hard to say since we don't know at what point in the mission it was downed.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:18 pm

Just 20 seconds after liftoff when they had dropped off 35 IDF soldiers in Lebanon.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:08 pm

20 seconds after liftoff is enough for the helicopter to travel at least a few hundred meters.

By the way, Hezbollah claimed they shot it with a Raad missile. But Raad is the AT-3 Sagger missile! How would they shoot down a helicopter with an anti-tank missile?
The Israelis said it was brought down so it couldn't have been on the ground at the time it was hit.
Have they recovered the wreckage? They failed to do so before the cease-fire.
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:33 pm

I thought the missle was called Waad?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting OD720 (Reply 21):
How would they shoot down a helicopter with an anti-tank missile?

Tanks are moving targets too.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting OD720 (Reply 21):
How would they shoot down a helicopter with an anti-tank missile?

IMO, it would be easier than an RPG, and that's happened on occasion. ATMs are either wire or laser guided and fly faster than a helo. Depending on it's flight profile, it is quite possible.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
bennett123
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:30 am

Am I missing something here, an AH64 that was carrying 35 troops.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 22):
I thought the missle was called Waad?

You're right, I got confused with these new arab names.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 24):
ATMs are either wire or laser guided and fly faster than a helo. Depending on it's flight profile, it is quite possible.

Quite interesting. Thanks.
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:07 pm

Bennet, I dont know the type of helo which crashed in Lebanon, anyway
two of the five crew are buried in Israel today see http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:35 pm

The most recent helo to get shot down was a CH-53, which surely explains the 20 troop payload.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:26 am

Now that I'm back from my ban (  Yeah sure ) I'll try to aleviate the confusion:

The -53 was carrying a load of troops into the area as part of the second stage of a heliborne assault-type operation carried out by the IDF. It offloaded about 30-35 paratroopers in an area that already saw considerable IDF/AF helicopter action in the previous 24 hours. As it took off and turned around it was hit with an ATGM launched from the outskirts of a nearby village. As per witness accounts, the chopper continued to fly for a few seconds at which point it turned on its side, dove into the ground and exploded. The crash area was surrounded by advancing Israeli troops, so there was little danger of the crew's bodies falling into Hezbollah's hands. A rescue team flew in on a Black Hawk, they recovered the bodies of 4 of the 5 crew members. The body of the 5th, a female flight mechanic ("crew chief" if you will) was found by a special forces team the next day, it ended up a couple hundred yards away from the crash site.

I don't know what ATGM they used, but it would certainly not have been the Sagger. It's a first generation (fully manual guidance) ATGM, making it hard enough to hit a stationary ground target, let alone a moving helicopter at night.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 29):
I don't know what ATGM they used, but it would certainly not have been the Sagger.

I'm inclined to agree with you. My guess would be the Russian 'Kornet". It's laser guided and the Israeli's have said that the Syrian's provided these missiles to Hizbollah.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:31 pm

Iranians are making a TOW missile copy as well, and I've seen some empty tubes in photos of overrun hezbollah positions. Might be a little easier to use than AT4s. I haven't seen any captured Koronets.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 31):
Iranians are making a TOW missile copy as well, and I've seen some empty tubes in photos of overrun hezbollah positions. Might be a little easier to use than AT4s. I haven't seen any captured Koronets.

Yeah there's plenty of TOWs to go around, mostly Iranian copies, but some may be U.S. made ones, that could have fallen between the cracks when the Israelis/SLA withdrew 6 years ago. AT-3 Saggers from various sources (one I've seen in photos had Bulgarian or Serbian writings on it, can't tell which) are very abundant (and ineffective, even back in the day a well trained Soviet AT team could only acheive something like a 1 in 20 chance of hitting the target in combat conditions). AT-4 and AT-5s have also been shown, not very scandalous since these missiles first appeared in the early 70's. The Hezbollah is also known to have been using European made Milan ATGMs for several years now (probably from Syria, who've had them for decades). The Metis-M (AT-13) and Kornet (AT-14) are the latest generation of Soviet/Russian ATGMs, they have not been shown by the Israelis. It does appear that they've been used. Supposedely, an Israeli delegation left to Russia a few days ago with various remains of those two types of missiles.

The SA-7/14 Strela and various knock offs are a no brainer. They've been launched at a fairly steady pace all through the 30+ day conflict, with no apparent success. The wild card is the SA-16 (or -18), which the Syrians may or may not have transferred to the Hezbies.

The RPG-7 is of course also common as dirt in that part of the world. The interesting part is the variety of tandem warhead projectiles (of Russian, east European, and Iranian origin) that have been used.

The RPG-29 has been first used by the Hezbollah operationally last year, but I don't think the Israelis captured any of those either. The RPG-26/27 is rumoured to be in the arsenal, but no evidence has been made public, and they do not offer anything over the -29 or the 7VR, AFAIK.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 32):
The Metis-M (AT-13) and Kornet (AT-14) are the latest generation of Soviet/Russian ATGMs, they have not been shown by the Israelis. It does appear that they've been used. Supposedely, an Israeli delegation left to Russia a few days ago with various remains of those two types of missiles.

There was a news report after the "cease fire" that indicated that Israeli forces had captured several Kornet's intact.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
LongbowPilot
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Migfan (Reply 14):
Migfan From United States, joined Jan 2006, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted Sun Aug 13 2006 16:37:55 UTC+2 and read 739 times: Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 4):
Who the hell are the IASF and why would they need Hinds?

I am not confused, just adding a bit of irony.

A hind is much more resistant to gound fire (AAA) than an AH-64. Cheaper too.

/M

ROFL, you keep telling yourself that about the Hind...
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3151
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Migfan (Reply 14):
A hind is much more resistant to gound fire (AAA) than an AH-64. Cheaper too.

/M

I'll give you the cheaper part. AH-64s are plenty resistant to groundfire. The A models were tested to the extent that the rotor spar was hit with an 23mm round, and it held together long enough to at least get the crew to the ground.

The Hind has shown less than invincible records in the Iran/Iraq conflict, Afghanistan, Desert Storm, Bosnia, Ivory Coast and Chechnya.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 35):
I'll give you the cheaper part. AH-64s are plenty resistant to groundfire.

 checkmark 

However, it's hard to deny that the -64 has a surprisingly bad record in peace time. I was looking a batch of Apaches up on Joe Baugher's list one day, and all I kept seeing was "crashed...", "crashed...", "crashed...". IIRC a couple crashed when deployed to the Balkans in '99 without ever being shot at. Then there's the 3 the Israelis lost this past month.

The Mi-24/25/35 may be overweight, and it's weapon systems are suspect, but like most Soviet designs the damn thing will keep on flying as long as you keep putting fuel in it.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting LY744 (Reply 36):
However, it's hard to deny that the -64 has a surprisingly bad record in peace time. I was looking a batch of Apaches up on Joe Baugher's list one day, and all I kept seeing was "crashed...", "crashed...", "crashed...". IIRC a couple crashed when deployed to the Balkans in '99 without ever being shot at. Then there's the 3 the Israelis lost this past month.
The Mi-24/25/35 may be overweight, and it's weapon systems are suspect, but like most Soviet designs the damn thing will keep on flying as long as you keep putting fuel in it.

I hate to crash the MI-24 love fest here... Check this out:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mil-mi-24
I haven't seen the Joe Baugher list you allude to, but I know (for a fact) that Army rotor heads do tend to train a tad aggressively. I would wonder how many of those are pilot error?

We have Mi-24s flying in the U.S. right now. They are somewhat maintenance intensive. Great aircraft for it's day, though!

[Edited 2006-08-31 15:12:21]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 37):
I hate to crash the MI-24 love fest here... Check this out:
http://www.answers.com/topic/mil-mi-24

Doesn't say anything about the Hind lacking in the reliability department.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 37):
I haven't seen the Joe Baugher list you allude to,

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafserials.html

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 37):
but I know (for a fact) that Army rotor heads do tend to train a tad aggressively.

No argument there, but what about Blackhawks, or, in its day, the Cobra? Don't recall those crashing nearly as often. And didn't the Apache spend pretty much the entire decade of the 80's being worked on to solve various technical issues, before it was finally considered to be fully operational?

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 37):
We have Mi-24s flying in the U.S. right now. They are somewhat maintenance intensive

Probably to conform to western standards imposed on its operator.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 38):
Doesn't say anything about the Hind lacking in the reliability department.

Not sure if this impacts on "reliability", but this aircraft isn't the panacea for all battlefield ills that some here think. I'd certainly be concerned about these "peculiar tendencies"....

Quote:
The comparatively high size and weight of the Hind limit its endurance and maneuverability. In tight banking turns it can roll alarmingly as the wings lose lift - this was noted during test-flights in 1969 but has still not been entirely eliminated. To counter this vulnerability, the Russians operate the aircraft in pairs or larger groups, with attacks carefully coordinated to strike from multiple directions simultaneously.
Another weakness was the possibility of the main rotor striking the tail-boom during violent maneuvers. Its high loaded weight can also limit its effectiveness as a helicopter; some reports state that with a full load the Hind needs a rolling take-off and also cannot hover. The problems with the dual-role Hind have prompted the development of the Mil Mi-28 and also the Kamov Ka-50 to replace it in the gunship role.
Also, the wings interfere with the aircraft's ability to hover and take off vertically. In fact, the Hind is certified to hover for only about 200 hours during its entire lifetime, a consequence of its emphasis on forward speed.

Thanks for the serial number list. That'll take some time to digest.

[Edited 2006-08-31 19:32:26]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 39):
but this aircraft isn't the panacea for all battlefield ills that some here think

 checkmark 

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 39):
Thanks for the serial number list. That'll take some time to digest

Have fun! Big grin


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
bennett123
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:22 am

I think that the Hind is designed to be operated differently that the AH64.

Less of a tank killer, more of a tank replacer.

This would mean less nap of the earth and more mass attacks.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 41):
I think that the Hind is designed to be operated differently that the AH64.

IIRC, space to transport 8 fully equipped troops as well. Maybe some of the ground pounders here can detail the operational concept behind the Hind?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
bennett123
Posts: 7440
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:17 am

AH1 + UH1 rolled into 1.  Wink
 
LongbowPilot
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:16 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 41):
I think that the Hind is designed to be operated differently that the AH64.

Less of a tank killer, more of a tank replacer.

This would mean less nap of the earth and more mass attacks.

Bingo Bennet, it is a flying Tank/APC. Apache is a Tank Killer, but also serves as CAS, Armed Escort, Recon, you name it. The only thing it DOESn't do is troop carry, unless you are up for a spur ride.
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting An225 (Reply 8):
* Human error (highly unlikely, if you ask me)

Hahaha yeah everyone knows israelis are a superior breed.
I could bet that its number 2. What sort of malfunction could make it hit a power line and i dont think hewbollah would do any apache hunting inside israel
rolf
 
aeroweanie
Posts: 1577
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:33 pm

RE: Another IAF Apache Down.

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 45):
Hahaha yeah everyone knows israelis are a superior breed.
I could bet that its number 2. What sort of malfunction could make it hit a power line and i dont think hewbollah would do any apache hunting inside israel

Wrong - Boeing and the IAF are now saying that it was a technical problem. Something went wrong and caused the entire rotor assembly to come off the airframe.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests