gocaps16
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First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:44 pm

For those who are interested as I stumbled though the U.S. Navy homepage.



http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=37746

The World's Finest U.S. Navy is officially an all F/A-18 fleet of the future.  Smile

Kevin
 
MigFan
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First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:57 pm

What is the USAF using to fulfill this role? RQ-4?

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
RAPCON
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First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:59 pm

YOu now that the flyboys at Whidbey just got a boner over that pic. No more flying buses for them. And the ECMO's can act tough now!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Devilfish
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First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:21 pm

Here are more pictures.....
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...owler+FA-18+electronic+attack.html

The outdoor shot could have been better.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LMP737
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First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 3):
And the ECMO's can act tough now!

Maybe not, some of the ECMO's will be "unemployed" with the Growler.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
AirRyan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 4):
Maybe not, some of the ECMO's will be "unemployed" with the Growler.

I don't feel too hard for them, modern computers took away their jobs years ago!

Quoting MigFan (Reply 1):
What is the USAF using to fulfill this role? RQ-4?

There is no doubt in my mind that the Marines after they get done paying for the V-22's will simply not have the money to morph an F-35B into some sort of similar EAW aircraft and thereby the EA-18G is not only the cheapest way for them to replace their EA-6B it is also the only way. If the Marines don't buy EA-18G's than they are getting out of the business and I have heard specifically that that is not their intention.

I see the Marines also taking their F/A-18D's and their FAC(A) roles and replacing them with F/A-18F's so perhaps they could combine the two and perform both EAW and FAC(A) roles with either the same platforms (plug and play the EAW gear for ordinance) or at least buying two very similar aircraft for those two roles.

If the USAF was wise, they'd buy some EA-18G's sooner rather than later as well with a handful of AESA equipped F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced by the F-22. Supplementing Super Hornets with F-22's would be a nice package considering that the Super Hornets can carry 10-11 AMRAAM's.
 
L-188
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting MigFan (Reply 1):
What is the USAF using to fulfill this role? RQ-4?

They used to have the EF-111 but during the Clinton administration they made a goal of trying to reduce the number of replicate roles in the branches. The ECM role was one-the Navy got them with their EA-6B's so the USAF had to send their Ravens to the desert... Still surprises me that the Aussies didn't try to pick up a couple for themselves when that happened.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
If the USAF was wise, they'd buy some EA-18G's sooner rather than later as well with a handful of AESA equipped F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced by the F-22. Supplementing Super Hornets with F-22's would be a nice package considering that the Super Hornets can carry 10-11 AMRAAM's.

The F-15 is a better aircraft then the wannabe bug....period.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LMP737
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
If the USAF was wise, they'd buy some EA-18G's sooner rather than later as well with a handful of AESA equipped F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced by the F-22. Supplementing Super Hornets with F-22's would be a nice package considering that the Super Hornets can carry 10-11 AMRAAM's.

Or buy AESA equiped F-16's.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
PADSpot
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:44 am

What are those pods under the central wing stations and central fuselage station? They look similar to Buddy-Buddy Refueling pods as used on our Tornadoes, but that would not make sense here ... . Are those little propellers on the tip of the pods?!
 
LMP737
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
What are those pods under the central wing stations and central fuselage station? They look similar to Buddy-Buddy Refueling pods as used on our Tornadoes, but that would not make sense here ... . Are those little propellers on the tip of the pods?!

Those are the ALQ-99 jammer pods used to jam enemy radars. The little propeller drives a generator inside the pod that powers the ECM gear. The aircraft's generators don't have enough juice to do so.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
RAPCON
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 4):
Maybe not, some of the ECMO's will be "unemployed" with the Growler.

Perhaps not. If the EF18 is indeed more reliable and cheaper to operate, it could theoretically generate more flight hours, and thus require the necessary crews to operate it.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
I don't feel too hard for them, modern computers took away their jobs years ago!

I never feel hard for flyboys!!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
AirRyan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
The F-15 is a better aircraft then the wannabe bug....period.

Yeah but the single seat F-15C's are no long available for production and eventually the point will come as to where it will just be cheaper to buy F/A-18E's than to spend any more money upgrading remaining F-15A/C's.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7):
Or buy AESA equiped F-16's.

While I'd like to see a qualitative analysis comparing the two, since the F-16E's have little in common with their F-16C counterparts that the USAF uses, I think the Super Hornet with it's greater number of hardpoints (hard to beat 10+ AAM's) would be a better suit to replace the role of the F-15C.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 10):
I never feel hard for flyboys!!

I'm not even going to go there, but you do remind me of a conversation I was having with some friends a short while back; the one on the left reminds me of my 9th grade science teacher I used to have a thing for... (where were these hot young teachers who put out when I was in school?!)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/030503-F-0365G-002.jpg
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 2):
And the ECMO's can act tough now!

And they can reduce their headcount by 2/3's too....less double-anchors running around the boat.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
LMP737
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):
While I'd like to see a qualitative analysis comparing the two, since the F-16E's have little in common with their F-16C counterparts that the USAF uses, I think the Super Hornet with it's greater number of hardpoints (hard to beat 10+ AAM's) would be a better suit to replace the role of the F-15C.

It still has much more in common with the C than the "super hornet" does. The chances of the USAF choosing the "super hornet" to replace F-15's is about slim to none. And besides what sort of threat exists to teh USAF where it would actaully need ten AAM's straped to one of it's planes?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
as well with a handful of AESA equipped F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced by the F-22.



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):

Yeah but the single seat F-15C's are no long available for production and eventually the point will come as to where it will just be cheaper to buy F/A-18E's than to spend any more money upgrading remaining F-15A/C's.

Don't the F15Ks and F-15SGs destined for South Korea and Singapore also come in single-seat versions? I would think those would be significantly less expensive than F-22s, but still very capable alternatives. Or would the USAF just go with the JSF?

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):
I'd like to see a qualitative analysis comparing the two, since the F-16E's have little in common with their F-16C counterparts that the USAF uses,

The F-16NG might work here. The contemplated next-generation F-16s could be defined to closely transition from F-16s in current USAF use, for operational and cost compromise, but the power of the yet to be upgraded engine might not attract the Air Force to launch the type.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ebj1248650
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Thread starter):
The World's Finest U.S. Navy is officially an all F/A-18 fleet of the future.

Kevin

The only obvious change appears to be the addition of ECM pods on the wing tips, replacing missile rails that used to be there. The impression I get is the airplane will rely very heavily on the externally mounted ECM pods, unless the internal equipment fit is vastly different from the fighter version (F/A-18F).
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
ebj1248650
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
The F-16NG might work here. The contemplated next-generation F-16s could be defined to closely transition from F-16s in current USAF use, for operational and cost compromise, but the power of the yet to be upgraded engine might not attract the Air Force to launch the type.

This is definitely news to me. Any further info on this?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
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N328KF
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:35 pm

I'm not sure we won't see a UAV of some sort performing this role.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced

F-15C/D's have a good 15 years left. If the USAF was smart, they would have new upgraded F-15C/D's built. Could save a lot of money going that route. After all, the F-15 is arguably the best fighter of all time, save the P-51 and F-4U and coupled with good pilots, it can still get the job done.
 
RAPCON
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):
I'm not even going to go there, but you do remind me of a conversation I was having with some friends a short while back; the one on the left reminds me of my 9th grade science teacher I used to have a thing for... (where were these hot young teachers who put out when I was in school?!)

In ref to your wet dream and the pics of the USAF bambi's...remind me one day about the ol' Navy expression about dating women in uniform!

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 12):
And they can reduce their headcount by 2/3's too....less double-anchors running around the boat.

The problem is not the FO's, it's the Jocks--specially the ringnockers with the unfounded illusions of grandeur.
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 16):
This is definitely news to me. Any further info on this?

It is mainly Lockheed Martin's attempt at bagging the IAF fighter deal, and other tenders that might come along. Here you are.....
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...eed+works+to+define+next+F-16.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
AirRyan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
Don't the F15Ks and F-15SGs destined for South Korea and Singapore also come in single-seat versions? I would think those would be significantly less expensive than F-22s, but still very capable alternatives. Or would the USAF just go with the JSF?

Modern Eagles are Strike Eagles only, and even a current F/A-18F is cheaper than a new Strike Eagle.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
The F-16NG might work here. The contemplated next-generation F-16s could be defined to closely transition from F-16s in current USAF use, for operational and cost compromise, but the power of the yet to be upgraded engine might not attract the Air Force to launch the type.

The F-16NG is nothing more than a hybird of all the goodies available on LM's parts shelf, but more importantly it's intended for export use. No doubt that if the USAF were to buy any more F-16's (which they won't because LM is making them the new F-35A) they would be specifically tailored to exactly what the USAF wanted and for the record, CFT's on a Viper look like crap.

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 15):
The impression I get is the airplane will rely very heavily on the externally mounted ECM pods, unless the internal equipment fit is vastly different from the fighter version (F/A-18F).

There are a lot of internal modifications for the EA-18G but suffice to say I believe I read that all F/A-18F's that roll of the line now have the extra 50 pounds of wires necessary to be able to convert over to an EA-18G with minimal time and effort.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 18):
F-15C/D's have a good 15 years left.

While I'm not privy to the exact details I'll use the F-14 and an old factor we refer to as age to argue against the statement - Tomcats we're severely limited in top airspeed and manuvers per NATOPS due to thier aged airframes towards the twilight of their service. F-15's are no spring chicken and that is why the F-22 was sought out.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 19):
In ref to your wet dream and the pics of the USAF bambi's...remind me one day about the ol' Navy expression about dating women in uniform!

More than an expression - words to live by as I did so myself whilst enlisted in the Marines. Of course now that I'm a former Marine I would at least be open to commissioned female! Too bad though, the hottie up there on the left already has a ring, but she does fine to enunciate my point.
 
LMP737
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):
The F-16NG is nothing more than a hybird of all the goodies available on LM's parts shelf, but more importantly it's intended for export use

And what does make that the "super hornet"?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
MigFan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 22):
And what does make that the "super hornet"?

The F/A-18E-F is an improvement on an existing design. It is the Navy's way to make the hornet replace the tomcat. To facilitate this, substantial differences wer incorporated into the design.

The super hornet is a very underrated aircraft...

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
AirRyan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 22):
And what does make that the "super hornet"?



Quoting Migfan (Reply 23):
The F/A-18E-F is an improvement on an existing design. It is the Navy's way to make the hornet replace the tomcat. To facilitate this, substantial differences wer incorporated into the design.

The super hornet is a very underrated aircraft...

That is exactly what I was going to rebute with: the Super Hornet is an all new from the ground up design (that just happens to resemble a legacy Hornet so they could bypass Congressional approval back when the program needed money for procurement,) while the F-16E/F and NG are just modern updates of the same aircraft that was originally fielded back in the early 80's. I agree, the Super Hornets are an underrated aircraft if you don't compare them to the F-14D or what it could have been, and although the Navy is buying 400+/- airframes, hopefully with more orders from the Marines and elsewhere the price will only come down for everyone.
 
RAPCON
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 24):
hopefully with more orders from the Marines

They officially passed on the 18E/F.
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
ebj1248650
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):
There are a lot of internal modifications for the EA-18G but suffice to say I believe I read that all F/A-18F's that roll of the line now have the extra 50 pounds of wires necessary to be able to convert over to an EA-18G with minimal time and effort.

Could the wiring be there to interface externally mounted pods with what might be called swapped black boxes (pull a fighter dedicated box and replace it with a dedicated ECM box); then pull fighter dedicated displays in the rear (and perhaps forward) cockpit and do a similar mission dedicated swap? If the focus is on a basic airframe construction with black boxes and external pods being the primary mission equipment, the EA-18G is going to be something of a bargain. And could this mean that a similar project could go together utilizing a two seat F-16?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
AFHokie
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
see the Marines also taking their F/A-18D's and their FAC(A) roles and replacing them with F/A-18F's so perhaps they could combine the two and perform both EAW and FAC(A) roles with either the same platforms (plug and play the EAW gear for ordinance) or at least buying two very similar aircraft for those two roles.

If the USAF was wise, they'd buy some EA-18G's sooner rather than later as well with a handful of AESA equipped F/A-18E's to replace the most elderly F-15A/C's that won't be able to be replaced by the F-22. Supplementing Super Hornets with F-22's would be a nice package considering that the Super Hornets can carry 10-11 AMRAAM's.

You cannot simply "plug and play" between a FAC A role and EAW. The gear in an AEW aircraft is highly specialized, there is a lot more to it than just the pods under the wings. Also it is not cost effective and it is a waste of an EAW asset to use it for any other role. That is like using an RJ or an AWACS as a passenger aircraft to haul troops into theater. Yes it could be done, but why would you waste that asset like that?

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):
Modern Eagles are Strike Eagles only, and even a current F/A-18F is cheaper than a new Strike Eagle.

Why buy an AESA equiped F/A-18E when you're already buying F-22's? If congress were to axe the rest of the 22 buy tomorrow, you would either see existing Eagles getting the upgrade, or you would see new ones with the upgrades roll off the assembly line. There are already F-15's with AESA and AIM-9X capability in the CAF at Elemendorf. The Super Hornet does not have the speed, gas, or radar capability even in an intrim capability fill the AF needs enough to replace an Eagle, any Eagle. A large number of hardpoints alone does not not make a great fighter.

You cannot have it both ways, in other threads, you post how you think the Super Hornet is no replacement for the Tomcat, yet in this one, you seem to think it is the majic panacea to fix all the air force's ills.
 
AirRyan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 25):
They officially passed on the 18E/F.

For the time being - they'll have no money left for a EAW version of the JSF as they are now hoping for, especially if the Dems return to power.

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 27):
You cannot simply "plug and play" between a FAC A role and EAW.

Perhaps not the aircrew but in the new EA-18G you can.

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 27):
The gear in an AEW aircraft is highly specialized, there is a lot more to it than just the pods under the wings.

But an EA-18G can still sling mud when you load A/G munitions instead of the AEA pods; the EA-18G retains much of the F/A-18F but still allows for a lot of flexibility.

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 27):
There are already F-15's with AESA and AIM-9X capability in the CAF at Elemendorf.

A handful of them, and the APG-79 in the Super Hornet is a much more capable unit the (v)3 APG-65's in those F-15C's. When it comes to taking into equation the airframe fatigue, new build F/A-18E's would be the way to go over A/A only F-15C's. Sure you'd lose a little sex appeal (just like with the F-14) but what you would make up for in return would far outweight the associated costs. Face it - Boeing now builds the F/A-18E that not only performs the same role as the F-15C that they used to build, but can do so much more. F-22's for the tip of the spear and F/A-18E's to fill the gap between the F-15's going to the boneyard; it's not perfect but there is a lot more to it than a simple "because it's a Navy aircraft the USAF won't buy it" mentality.
 
AirSpare
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:15 pm

For a strictly cool factor for airshows, a modern variant of the F-16XL would have been a 10 on the wow scale. The cranked arrow wing would add a lot of hard points, a few HARM missiles would be nice to have on the trip, but would a combined Wild Weasel role be desireable?

I wish they could have done beter on the name, a Growler? What is that? A stall warning? Bad name.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Thread starter):
The World's Finest U.S. Navy is officially an all F/A-18 fleet of the future

Until the F-35.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
The F-15 is a better aircraft then the wannabe bug....period.

Speculative. We will see in 10 years or so if that is true.

Quoting Maiznblu_757 (Reply 18):
save the P-51 and F-4U

This comment, while I understand it, is not totally true. The P-51 was late on the scene in strong numbers and the F4U was very problematic in carrier ops. While they both represent the ultimate evolution of prop fighters, it was the Hellcat and Thunderbolt that had the bulk of the kills.

Ad far as the Navy goes:

19 out of 20 times, it was the Hellcat that flew home from aerial duels between Japanese planes and Hellcats. Carrier borne Navy and Marine Hellcats in the Pacific region racked up a total of 4,948 kills by the end of the war. Other land based Hellcats had some success by scoring 266 kills. In all, 5,216 Axis airplanes were downed by Hellcats.

As for the Air Force:

It will never be possible to definitively settle the debate as to which of the top three USAAF fighters was the best. For one thing, it depends on what you mean by "best." The Lockheed P-38, Republic P-47, and North American P-51 were all very good fighters. All three were versatile, had good range, and were deadly in air to air combat. The P-47 and P-38, in particular, had good survivability compared to most Axis fighters. The P-47 had a reputation for extreme ruggedness, and the P-38 offered twin engine reliability for long flights.

But it seems that peole just go for the sexy planes, the P-51 and the F4U, and forget the planes that did most of the work in WWII.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):
Tomcats we're severely limited in top airspeed and manuvers per NATOPS due to thier aged airframes towards the twilight of their service

That is because every time they came home they basically crash landed on a carrier deck. You cannot compare the two because carrier based planes take far more abuse. It is not just about pulling g's.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 22):
And what does make that the "super hornet"?

A new fighter type with an old name.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 24):
That is exactly what I was going to rebute with: the Super Hornet is an all new from the ground up design (

Yep, but even aviation fans fall for it just like congress. I really want to believe the people here are smarter than those jokers in D.C.

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 27):
Why buy an AESA equiped F/A-18E when you're already buying F-22's?

2 for 1? The F-22 is EXTREEEEEEMLY expensive while the F/A-18E is in relative terms a bargain.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
RAPCON
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 28):
For the time being - they'll have no money left for a EAW version of the JSF as they are now hoping for, especially if the Dems return to power.

Last time the Dems were in power, there was barely enough $$ in the budget to maintain--forget good quality training.
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5182
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Migfan (Reply 23):
The F/A-18E-F is an improvement on an existing design.



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 24):
the Super Hornet is an all new from the ground up design (that just happens to resemble a legacy Hornet so they could bypass Congressional approval back when the program needed money for procurement,) while the F-16E/F and NG are just modern updates of the same aircraft that was originally fielded back in the early 80's



Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 30):
A new fighter type with an old name.

Couldn't the same arguments be used for the F-16NG? Its development was evolutionary and if the most ambitious option was to be pursued, it would little resemble the F-16 A/Bs of yore. Although as mentioned, the USAF might not want it anymore as they have the Lightning II coming, and LM would not think of potentially reducing the more lucrative F-35 buy.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 30):
2 for 1? The F-22 is EXTREEEEEEMLY expensive while the F/A-18E is in relative terms a bargain.

I wonder what the price ratio would be with F-16NG.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 21):

The F-16NG is nothing more than a hybird of all the goodies available on LM's parts shelf, but more importantly it's intended for export use. No doubt that if the USAF were to buy any more F-16's (which they won't because LM is making them the new F-35A) they would be specifically tailored to exactly what the USAF wanted and for the record, CFT's on a Viper look like crap.

Well, if the all the goodies result to a superior fighter at the price, wouldn't it be worth it? And CFTs wouldn't be crucial for point defense. Somehow I don't see the ANG equipping with the JSF. The F-15 hand-me-downs are old, hard and expensive to maintain, while their F-16 C/Ds are also getting long-in-the-tooth by the time. Unless the USAF is meaning to unload most of its newer F-15s to the ANG.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ebj1248650
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:22 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 31):
Unless the USAF is meaning to unload most of its newer F-15s to the ANG.

Late model F-15C's and perhaps some F-15E's?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 33):
Quoting RAPCON (Reply 31):
Unless the USAF is meaning to unload most of its newer F-15s to the ANG.

Late model F-15C's and perhaps some F-15E's?


You quoted the wrong guy. Anyway, maybe I should have added an "incredulous" Smilie to more clearly indicate my thoughts.  Smile
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
elmothehobo
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 31):
Last time the Dems were in power, there was barely enough $$ in the budget to maintain--forget good quality training.

Oh come on, you and I both know that the last time the Dems had power was what? 1993-1995? After that it was the Republicans that had control of the Pentagon's pocket book.

Tell me, who cancelled the Crusader and the Commanche and scuttled plans for a new tanker? It sure wasn't Bill! (Although Boeing did screw up an easy win for themselves)
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 32):
Somehow I don't see the ANG equipping with the JSF. The F-15 hand-me-downs are old, hard and expensive to maintain, while their F-16 C/Ds are also getting long-in-the-tooth by the time. Unless the USAF is meaning to unload most of its newer F-15s to the ANG.

Won't happen for a looong time. Our squadron is about to recieve some 80's-build C and D models, upgrading our mid 70's A and B's....I'd imagine that the AF will let us beat the C's into the ground before giving us some second hand JSF's.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
elmothehobo
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:34 am

The JSF is going to replace every F-15, F-16 and F-18. The F-22 is already replacing some of the F-15s, but years down the road, the flying forces of all the Navy, Air Force and Marines will be F-35s and F-22s, including the Air National Guard. The ANG will be getting the F-22s before the F-35s, so still a few decades away.
 
deltadc9
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 32):
Couldn't the same arguments be used for the F-16NG?

Maybe, but I am not real familiar with the NG. The Super Hornet shares very few parts with the original. They basically took the Hornet blueprints and put them on a copier enlarging 25% (gross oversimplification).

All the dimensions are bigger, so it is really a different airplane, different tooling, different parts. They just used the basic concept and lessons learned from the F-18A/B/C/D. The F-16NG is on the same frame, same tooling, right?

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 37):
The ANG will be getting the F-22s before the F-35s, so still a few decades away.

I have doubts about that, unless they buy more than currently planned.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 38):
The F-16NG is on the same frame, same tooling, right?

It is, at this stage, only a concept. But I believe enlarging it as was done to the Super Bug would further diminish its originally fine attributes, and take it above the category of lightweight fighter.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:39 am

Update:

The Growler flies, one month in advance!.....
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+for+first+time%2c+one+month.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
MigFan
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:18 am

Yeah, I guess we can rename the thread now.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
socal
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:25 am

Wow......looking good.............!!!
I Love HNL.............
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Thread starter):
The World's Finest U.S. Navy is officially an all F/A-18 fleet of the future.

I don't get it...is there another not-so-fine U.S. Navy out there?  Wink

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:28 am

Photos of first flight with jamming pods here......
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...flies+with+electronic+warfare.html

Looking good!  thumbsup  I think the receiving outfits are all very excited and impatient for their turn to do the flying.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
L-188
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 43):
s there another not-so-fine U.S. Navy out there?

I could say something about the Coast Guard at this point, but I won't.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:33 am

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
deltadc9
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 43):
I don't get it...is there another not-so-fine U.S. Navy out there?

Actually yes there is. The US Navy mothball fleet is the 3rd largest navy in the world. I guess you could add the F-14s and all the other retired planes in the desert to that and you have quite a force, just a little old and rusty.

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Thread starter):
The World's Finest U.S. Navy is officially an all F/A-18 fleet of the future

For just the short period between the F-14 retirement and the introduction of the F-35, the first of which is about ready to fly.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
JakeOrion
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 30):
But it seems that peole just go for the sexy planes, the P-51 and the F4U, and forget the planes that did most of the work in WWII.

Then the P-40 would have to be on the very top of that list, as that aircraft virtually saw combat in every theater of the war, yet it receives very little credit. Too bad, such a sharp looking aircraft.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 35):
Tell me, who cancelled the Crusader and the Commanche and scuttled plans for a new tanker? It sure wasn't Bill!

Off-topic, but those programs were way over budget that it wasn't justified to continue them. Also, how do we benefit using a stealth helicopter against terrorist? Times have changed when the Comanche was initially created. Same could be said with the Crusader, both weapon platforms would contribute very little to combat terrorist.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 22):
And what does make that the "super hornet"?

The "Super Hornet" should not have the F-18 designation in the first place. This bird is virtually a brand new aircraft, but to fool congress for funding, as others pointed out, they kept the F-18 designation. The F-18 E/F versions have nearly no inter-changable parts with the A-D versions. Thus, the only aircraft in common in the "Super Hornet" family is the E/F/G models.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 39):
It is, at this stage, only a concept. But I believe enlarging it as was done to the Super Bug would further diminish its originally fine attributes, and take it above the category of lightweight fighter.

***RUMOR***
Rumor has it that the F-16NG will be strongly based off the E/F model that was sold to United Arab Emirates. Other changes will be twin seat, more powerful engine, and of course more complicated avionics/jammers/sensors/radars. However, seeing this aircraft has yet to leave the concept stage, I'll only believe it when I see it.

One other note, the JSF aircraft are just over the horizon, so the chances of a F-16NG are unlikely to begin with anyway.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
Devilfish
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RE: First USN EA-18G Growler Rolls Out

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 48):
Rumor has it that the F-16NG will be strongly based off the E/F model that was sold to United Arab Emirates.

The "rumor" is described in the link in Reply 20.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 48):

One other note, the JSF aircraft are just over the horizon, so the chances of a F-16NG are unlikely to begin with anyway.

Unlikely, yes. But with the delays and funding problems for the Lightning II, the F-16NG might just squeak by.....
Budget Cut To Slow JSF Lrip (by DEVILFISH Sep 6 2006 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

And it's still a dark horse in the IAF fighter contest. Besides, not all air forces could afford the JSF.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

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