lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:32 pm

This has got to be the oddest question I have ever asked, but as the title suggests, how can we come up with something beyond what we know begining with what we know?

The science and technology we have now seems as is it works best within our solar system, that unless we justify taking dozens of decades to get somewhere else, I think we have to come up with something.

I am going to propose something and I know it will be shot down as it is still based on circa-2006 thinking and probably misinformed:

Water via hydrolysis => hydrogen gas and oxygen gas => oxygen is dumped => hydrogen gas is spit into two chambers => one chamber of gas is negatively charged while the other chamber is positively charged => both gas sets are accelerated and ramed in the same cyclotron =>> sustainable anitmatter reactor?

I also wonder how much of classical chemistry can apply in Einsteinian physics, like how hot should a particle get before each particle experiences non-negligible relavistic effects? What happens when these particle interact like a gas in an enclosed chamber? Do they need the other particle to be there in 4-D spacetime for it to bounce off, what if it goes right through the other?

What would that do, I have no clue but I'll bet there are both camps that deny it does anything (as if we know all there is to know) and those that think wtf could happen at the same time.

Just thought I'd through something out there, and yes I was affected by String Theory to some extent, though it makes sense God would place an infinite number of dimensions, we just have our lifetimes to find them.

I'd like a senario where distance and velocity was irrelevant and travel was near-instantaneous, as there are still inefficiencies in the world, can't ask for perfection.  Wink
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
ebj1248650
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:17 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
I also wonder how much of classical chemistry can apply in Einsteinian physics, like how hot should a particle get before each particle experiences non-negligible relavistic effects? What happens when these particle interact like a gas in an enclosed chamber? Do they need the other particle to be there in 4-D spacetime for it to bounce off, what if it goes right through the other?

I'm glad you know what you're talking about or appear to know what you're talking about 'cause it's so far above my head it might as well be in heaven. I suspect this might be the wrong forum for the kind of question you're asking. But I don't know where to direct you to find the answer you're looking for.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 1):
But I don't know where to direct you to find the answer you're looking for.

Tech / Ops perhaps?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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sebolino
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:44 pm

You ask too many questions about too many subjects.

About the temperature of the gas, E = kT, if you want a relativist effect, considering only the kinetic energy, if we use the classical formula as an approximation, it would be 1/2mv2 = kT, T = mv2/2kT (If I remember correctly).

You just have to find the mass of an hydrogen atom, and say for example v = 30000 km.s-1, and you'll find the temperature.

But I'm not sure I really understand where you want to go ... Are you drunk ??  Smile  Smile
 
grandtheftaero
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:05 pm

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
one chamber of gas is negatively charged while the other chamber is positively charged => both gas sets are accelerated and ramed in the same cyclotron =>> sustainable anitmatter reactor?

What do colliding positively and negatively charged ions have anything to with antimater?
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:08 am

I don't think there is any 'new' physics. Just about everything including string theory launches from known truths, established laws. New things that violate provable laws must be discarded or the violations explained with other provable data.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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sebolino
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:00 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
New things that violate provable laws must be discarded or the violations explained with other provable data.

Not always true.

You can have different physics depending where you are looking.
For example, Relativity and Quantical physics are not compatible or at least not integrable one in the other, but we don't care because they are related to very different things (ie very high energy high distances in one case, low energy low distances in the other).

In every day life, we may use classical mechanics, and we don't care about the relativist effects. It doesn't mean that one is "true" and the other "false". It's just a matter of what model you need.

About the string theory ... I don't know it enough to say anything about it.
 
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Devilfish
Posts: 5370
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:48 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 2):
Tech / Ops perhaps?

Given that he's concerned with the abstract, esoteric and far-out, it's right at home here on Space. Although I wouldn't know the slightest about those.

[Edited 2006-08-29 10:49:42]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 6):
Not always true.

What I mean is this: If you construct a really abstract theory in some exotic discipline beyond traditional physics and that theory does not obey established laws and proofs in "lesser" sciences, it is pretty much disproven. We have a well established bag of cause-and-effect with which it must comply. Two and two shall remain four. If it must be five to make your new theory work then you have the burden of explaining why under certain conditions it may be five or even twelve.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 3):
But I'm not sure I really understand where you want to go ... Are you drunk ??

If this is what he prattles off when drunk, we need to get him laid...fast.  Wink

But if he's good at beer pong or "flippy cup" while prattling this stuff off, then I've just found a new drinking buddy! Big grin

We'll design the next SST...in a drunken stupor! Won't that make the flying public comfortable...  Wink

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
texfly101
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:42 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
Water via hydrolysis => hydrogen gas and oxygen gas => oxygen is dumped => hydrogen gas is spit into two chambers => one chamber of gas is negatively charged while the other chamber is positively charged => both gas sets are accelerated and ramed in the same cyclotron =>> sustainable anitmatter reactor?

Just to answer your question...no. Neither mass is even closely related to anti-matter. As you state it, all you have is two oppositely charged particles colliding together. Anti-matter is not in the process, therefore there can not be an anti-matter reaction.
 
SP90
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:39 am

RE: How Does One Invoke New Physics?

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting Lehpron (Thread starter):
Water via hydrolysis => hydrogen gas and oxygen gas => oxygen is dumped => hydrogen gas is spit into two chambers => one chamber of gas is negatively charged while the other chamber is positively charged => both gas sets are accelerated and ramed in the same cyclotron =>> sustainable anitmatter reactor?

That is not a matter-antimatter reaction. You need to have actual antimatter (anti-protons and positrons). What you described is just ions mixing it up. An anti-proton is a particle with a proton's mass but a (-) charge. Positrons are particles with a (+) charge and the mass of electrons. Both are very hard to produce and very hard to contain and certainly not the product of hydrolysis.

BTW, why would you want to dump the oxygen in space? You should be saving it so the crew has some to breath right?  Wink

AS for the rest, it gave me a terrible headache just thinking about multiverse theory. Everything that can happen will happen. Makes me feel good that in some reality I actually became a pilot and flying is my career.  Big grin

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