columba
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Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:12 pm

From Yahoo:

Quote:
European aerospace and defence firm EADS is confident of winning a share of the U.S. Air Force's upcoming $20 billion-plus requirement for air refuelling tankers, a newspaper reported on Sunday.

German financial daily Handelsblatt quoted EADS defence chief Stefan Zoller as saying the company had high hopes for the Air Force business after teaming up with Los Angeles-based Northrop Grumman Corp.

"Both companies are convinced that they have a chance of success for a substantial share of this contract," Zoller said.

U.S. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said last week he expected the competition would kick off by the end of September.

Northrop plans to offer a variant of the Airbus A330. Airbus is majority owned by EADS. Chicago-based Boeing Co. is also expected to bid.



Click
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:33 pm

Hi Columba,

I read that article too... Sounds more like fluff to me. Odds are against them and that's just the political reality they're in.

This contract is so important for Boeing that they will build just about anything to get it, 100% of it. Indications are that this will NOT be split among the two competitors.

I send you and your family best wishes!

Regards,
Sal
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BladeLWS
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:26 am

The Air Force won't split competitor's not in this age. Current military/congressional thinking is one aircraft does all. Like the JSF. They'll order from one company only, not both. It's all about cost, operating two different aircraft from two different companies for the same job is hugely expensive.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 2):
The Air Force won't split competitor's not in this age.

But it worked so well with the EELV....
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TropicBird
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:59 am

I don't believe they will split the aircraft buy in the "medium" category (B767/A330) but they could decide to buy a mix of "large" (A340/B777/B747) and the "medium" size. Plus don't forget the used aircraft option is still open but that appears unlikely because congress was not happy with the E-8 (B707) program which used old airframes.
 
dw747400
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:40 am

Did anyone really expect an officer of EADS to publicly announce "We think it is unlikely our bid will be selected?" Surely EADS is aware they are up for a tough political fight (not to mention a tough technical one).
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ptrjong
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:33 am

A deal as large and important as this, regardless of all what is being said, will of course ultimately go to Boeing, both to support the aircraft-building capacity in the USA and to please the voters. That's only natural, regardless of the soundness of the Airbus aircraft.

Peter
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 3):
But it worked so well with the EELV....

ouch....soooo true... Smile
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:57 am

The current atmosphere among AMC and ACC is that the Petagon is against outsourcing major hardware and will not buy the Airbus product. It's probably a political pride thing, but it's there nonetheless. The current frontrunner is the 777 "Combi". A 777 with a gas tank in the back and a transport area for troops/equipment up front, for the interim. Boeing has also hinted at a "KC-787", a tanker based on the 787 airliner. The KC-767 is a dead issue. I fully expect Boeing to close the 767 production line once the 787 comes online. I also expect Boeing to heavily push a 787 tanker once the airliner production is in full swing, especially if they open the much-aniticipated second production line. When asked, a Boeing executive (I forgot which one) alluded to "future military applications" for the 787.  

Quote:
This contract is so important for Boeing that they will build just about anything to get it,

  

Quote:
Courtesy of The Chicago Tribune:

For several years, Boeing Co. has been consistent on one point: The best aircraft to replace the Air Force's aging tanker fleet is a modified version of its 767 commercial jet.

On Tuesday, however, Chicago-based Boeing said it was ready to build a new tanker based on any of its airframes, including the next-generation, fuel-efficient 787 Dreamliner.

"We have a full family of aircraft, and if the Air Force and the Department of Defense determine a new aircraft is the best solution for replacing the KC 135 tanker, we think we can ensure their requirements are met," said Brian Ames, a Boeing spokesman.


[Edited 2006-09-19 02:10:03]
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 4):
I don't believe they will split the aircraft buy in the "medium" category (B767/A330) but they could decide to buy a mix of "large" (A340/B777/B747) and the "medium" size.

That's always been my view on this, particularly considering that the RFP study was bumped from 100 to 189 airframes. Add in Senator McCain's newest "stir the pot" where he is trying to get WTO subsidies actions out of the decision and it is looking more political all along. It isn't any surprise, to me at least, that NG and A have put their money on manufacturing/assembly facilities in the south. The pols from Dixie have a heavy say in military budgets and have already come out on NG's side. Add in also that the foreign governments like Britain are most unhappy with the JSF job/tech transfer mix and I could see an appeasement contract split like what TropicBird writes. JSF technology will stay in the US, tanker split deals gets that "thank you" to Europe and McCain the Southern block of votes for 2008.
And actually, the A330/340 is not a really bad deal for a large tanker/cargo aircraft either. The AF is sure happy with their KC-10's.
 
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 9):
Add in also that the foreign governments like Britain are most unhappy with the JSF job/tech transfer mix

Actually, this has been worked out, at least with the UK.

Story
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 10):
Actually, this has been worked out, at least with the UK.

True, you're very correct there. But I still think that those countries like Britain, deserve a share of the overall pie, particularly since they have worked so well with us as Allies. What goes around comes around and I'm a bit tired of the nationalistic rhetoric that seems to color these threads sometimes. We're all in this together and as you point out, we're working together. Thanks for the post clarifying that point.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 11):
True, you're very correct there. But I still think that those countries like Britain, deserve a share of the overall pie, particularly since they have worked so well with us as Allies. What goes around comes around and I'm a bit tired of the nationalistic rhetoric that seems to color these threads sometimes. We're all in this together and as you point out, we're working together. Thanks for the post clarifying that point.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly! It's high time we stopped acting like enemies! While I do have security concerns with some "partners" regarding tech transfer on the Lightning II program, I have none with the RAF or British goverment. I can't see the RAF giving up any secrets.
A BAE official was asked about the recent sale of their stake in Airbus. He said he wasn't concerned 'cause he expects a 5% increase in business from the US over the coming years. They build MAJOR components of the F-35 including the aft fuselage section and EW equipment. In light of that, I thought the tech transfer issues were really petty.  
Some of the other "partners" on the other hand...

[Edited 2006-09-19 02:21:32]
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474218
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 8):
The current frontrunner is the 777 "Combi". A 777 with a gas tank in the back and a transport area for troops/equipment up front, for the interim.

Why would they put fuel in the main cabin? There is enough below floor cargo space for tankering fuel. This leaves the main cabin free for cargo, equipment and people, just like the KC-135 and KC-10.
 
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):

Couldn't tell you, but it is what's being thrown around. The drawing I saw actually had passenger windows forward and none aft. I personally think it's a bad idea. I know the 777 has incredible range but it also requires a pretty big field to operate out of. I think a split fleet of 737 and 787 tankers makes more sense. A small fleet of KC-130's could also be kept for operation out of unimproved strips.
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TeamAmerica
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 8):
The current frontrunner is the 777 "Combi". A 777 with a gas tank in the back and a transport area for troops/equipment up front, for the interim.

 no  Not a chance...you are definitely mistaken. An aircraft must be balanced, and a "combi" as you suggest could not carry fuel in the tank unless there was cargo up front, and could not dispense that fuel once airborne.

The KC-135 carries fuel in the wings and belly, leaving the main deck open for cargo. The replacement will do the same.
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TeamAmerica
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 11):
But I still think that those countries like Britain, deserve a share of the overall pie, particularly since they have worked so well with us as Allies.

I agree that we have true friends in the UK, but now that BAe has opted to sell their share of Airbus, what obligation could there be to give EADS a share of US taxpayer dollars? EADS counts the French and Russian governments as major shareholders. That will not sit well in the Pentagon or the US Congress. There will be increasing industrial cooperation between US and EU corporations, but don't look for big contracts going directly to EADS until they shed their government ownership.
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MCIGuy
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 15):
The KC-135 carries fuel in the wings and belly, leaving the main deck open for cargo. The replacement will do the same.

Yeah, I don't see it actually happening either. Rummy is happy to maintain the 135 and 10 fleet until something (much) better comes along. The idea was in the spirit of "multi-use" equipment. The idea of a dedicated 737-based tanker has been put forward too.
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:32 am

Just remember that the KC-767 tanker that sits on the ramp at Paine Field waiting engines as GFE is a purpose built aircraft to USAF specs. It wasn't a speculative offering to the USAF to see if they had any interest. I don't see the mission planners, tech/ops guys, and contract admins changing their mind and going for a different bird. That would say that they were wrong when they custom spec'ed that bird...Thats their aircraft, the one that they wanted...they'll get it most likely...that is unless they are instructed to do differently by the pols. The balls in McCain's court. We'll see if he gets his 13 answers and whether they change the course of the RFP.
 
jwenting
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly! It's high time we stopped acting like enemies!

Both the UK and France have used their stranglehold on foreign countries using their military equipment in the past to shape internal policies of those countries.
Simply put "either you do as we tell you or we stop supplying you with spare parts and withhold the (paid for) equipment you still have on order".
Pretty much every other country selling military hardware abroad has done the same of course, including the US.

I can fully understand (and fully do support) any country that doesn't want to make itself dependent on outsiders for their national defense and therefore prefers homegrown solutions over imported ones (even if those are accompanied by "promises" and "treaties" about "sharing production capability" and "building vital parts in your country".
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Devilfish
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 6):
A deal as large and important as this, regardless of all what is being said, will of course ultimately go to Boeing, both to support the aircraft-building capacity in the USA and to please the voters. That's only natural, regardless of the soundness of the Airbus aircraft.

This implies that Boeing's offering has little going for it technically, assumes superiority of the Airbus product - and impugns the objectivity of the bidding process even before all presentations are complete. Why do EADS bother at all?

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
Some of the other "partners" on the other hand...

I believe the "others" are more concerned with workshare rather than source codes.
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ptrjong
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
This implies that Boeing's offering has little going for it technically, assumes superiority of the Airbus product

No, of course it doesn't. I'm only predicting Boeing will win, whether it has the better offer - which it may well have as far as I'm concerned - or not.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
and impugns the objectivity of the bidding process even before all presentations are complete. Why do EADS bother at all?

I don't know. Perhaps to ensure Boeing doesn't make too much money out of this. Perhaps to make the Americans look bad in the free trade talks. Admittedly a bit far-fetched. But why, for example, does Lockheed bother to offer the C-130J to the US Army, which needs a smaller aircraft? It's happening all the time.
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Devilfish
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 21):
But why, for example, does Lockheed bother to offer the C-130J to the US Army, which needs a smaller aircraft?

Because they're confident they could swing the decision in their favor.
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MCIGuy
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:27 pm

Wasn't the KC-767 already cancelled several months ago?
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Lumberton
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:48 pm

As an aside, one has to wonder how much enthusiasm an Airbus worker in France or Germany has for an assembly facility to be located in the U.S.? Or China for that matter....
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Stitch
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 23):
Wasn't the KC-767 already cancelled several months ago?

As a program, the KC-767 is still very much alive, with frames for the Japanese and Italian Air Forces in production.

The original 100-frame lease deal to the USAF was indeed cancelled some time back (the first frames would be taking to the skies at PAE now if the deal had been consummated as planned). However, the USAF still intends to source a new tanker fleet and I believe the KC-767 is still on the table, though Boeing is also considering a KC-777 and KC-787 offering.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 5):
Did anyone really expect an officer of EADS to publicly announce "We think it is unlikely our bid will be selected?" Surely EADS is aware they are up for a tough political fight (not to mention a tough technical one).

No, but it's just possible they have an inside track that allows them to cofidently believe they can get a piece of the action. Might be the large and medium size tanker fleet is just what the AF has in mind.

Personally, I don't think it would be wise, politically or commercially, to express such confidence if it has no basis. But then I'm old fashioned in my thinking.
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 23):
Wasn't the KC-767 already cancelled several months ago

The Boeing development program of the USAF KC-767 tanker was cancelled several years ago and the cost of the one airframe that was built was written off against profits. That's the airframe that sits painted but engineless at Paine Field. So the program is not current. However, there is a purpose built 767 tanker for sale to foreign governments as blessed by the US. Italy, Japan, Australia and Britain have all been pitched this aircraft with Italy and Japan buying them. Those have been coming thru the production line and have been the subject of numerous articles and pics.
As far as what Boeing will offer, it will be in direct response to what the USAF RFP asks for. And that will be very direct as to the size and type of aircraft that is required. I expect to see a 767 size to be in the mix.
 
jwenting
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 26):
No, but it's just possible they have an inside track that allows them to cofidently believe they can get a piece of the action. Might be the large and medium size tanker fleet is just what the AF has in mind.

Nah, they just believe they can get a court to force the US government to order their aircraft when they sue after loosing the deal.
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:12 am

anyone doubting that this will be a political decision, just check out this article in Defense daily (hope the link works)
http://www.defensedaily.com/VIP/dd/current.htm#A1


be sure and check out the support that McCain is getting from the state of Alabama...or as they say down there "the South Shall Rise Again"
 
TropicBird
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 29):
anyone doubting that this will be a political decision, just check out this article in Defense daily (hope the link works)
http://www.defensedaily.com/VIP/dd/current.htm#A1


be sure and check out the support that McCain is getting from the state of Alabama...or as they say down there "the South Shall Rise Again"

I wish it worked...but sadly it does not.
 
texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:55 am

yes, I know, I try it in the preview section and it works just fine... maybe try www.defensedaily.com and look at the current articles, its the lead article
 
TropicBird
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 31):
yes, I know, I try it in the preview section and it works just fine... maybe try www.defensedaily.com and look at the current articles, its the lead article

When I click on the "full story" link...it wants a user name and password....Oh Well
 
texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:33 am

It just opens up for me but I guess that means that we have those priviledges here at work...I tried at home and it didn't work for me. I'm tempted to just copy and paste the damn thing as its not that long, but most likely the alarm bells would start ringing in some building somewhere and I would become the target of the cyberpolice...so here is a paraphrasing
Part 1: Basically, the gist of it is that Senator McCain has sent an official request of 13 questions to Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England regarding the draft RFP. He is asking how the WTO dispute will be handled within the RFP, who will be the judge of the effects of the WTO dispute, how will the contract prices be directly affected, etc for a total of 13 questions. He also is demanding that these 13 qusetions...and answers...be put into the official RFP as the current language regarding the WTO dispute will limit competition.
Part 2: Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England ignored the questions, refusing to address them and basically said that the WTO concerns would be addressed, stating in a letter "In my judgment, it's important that all matters be openly addressed and clarified prior to a final RFP being issued,"
Part 3: Senatory McCain, not being satisfied, go figure on that one, again demanded that these questions be answered and included in the RFP, stating, "on the issue of acceptable government supports for the development of commercial aircraft...indicated bringing the WTO dispute into the Request For Proposals (RFP) could limit a fair and open competition."
Part 4: And as stated in the article, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), agreed with McCain that language in the RFP about the WTO dispute should be deleted as it will make the competition unfair.
So that's it, maybe someone else can help elucidate on all this political stump jumping and campaigning for office on the public dollar. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
 
socal
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:14 am

EADS should be confident that they will NOT get a share of the tanker deal.
I see a KC-767.
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MCIGuy
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting Socal (Reply 34):

I'm sure lots of folks will disagree with me, but I'm against the KC-767. Why would the USAF want a tanker based on a 26 year-old airliner design that will soon be obsolete? Now, I know things like engines will be around a long time (the C-5M's will have CF6's), but pretty much every thing else is outdated. I think the 787 would be a much better choice. Given it's extreme range for it's size, it could loiter on station for a LONG TIME.  

[Edited 2006-09-21 01:24:38]
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keesje
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:16 pm

I think the basic issue hasn't changed much during the last 4 years of this process, despite the specs being "customized", key players bribed, politicians pressured :

- the aircraft best meeting the specs ain't from here

on the specs: http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/KR-04...oeing%20specifications%20rewrite'
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Lumberton
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 36):
think the basic issue hasn't changed much during the last 4 years of this process, despite the specs being "customized", key players bribed, politicians pressured :

Don't forget the article in the UK Guardian where EADS may seek to oursource production in the "dollar zone". Alabama is in the dollar zone, isn't it? If the A330 tanker is selected, it could pave the way to more "outsourcing" in the U.S. Wouldn't that be a delicious turn of events? As I stated earlier

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 24):
As an aside, one has to wonder how much enthusiasm an Airbus worker in France or Germany has for an assembly facility to be located in the U.S.? Or China for that matter....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
drewfly
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:04 am

To throw something out there, what about KC330s to replace the -135s and KC777s to replace the -10s? Just a thought.
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texfly101
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Drewfly (Reply 38):
To throw something out there, what about KC330s to replace the -135s and KC777s to replace the -10s? Just a thought.

If you go to the 9/18/06 issue of AvWeek, read the article entitled "Italy's Defense Strategy". In it, there is a very consumate explanation of why Italy chose the 767 for their tanker. It has to do with size, load, maintenance, parts etc. And it states, Italy felt that the 767 is the best airplane for the job. A lot of those reasons apply to the USAF choice of the 767 for the aborted tanker lease deal and will probably be the basis for the RFP. While the 787 wasn't available then, the reasons for choosing the 767 are still valid. So while I am not defending the choice, I am saying that a lot of people have looked at it and have chosen the 767 over the 330. For my opinion, I feel that a mix of 767 and 330 is best. But when it comes to doing a military job, I say give them what they want, they're the ones putting their life at risk to defend mine.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 36):
- the aircraft best meeting the specs ain't from here



Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 39):
While the 787 wasn't available then,

With the 787 on the horizon for the target EIS (not to mention T7) and Boeing's track record for this kind of work, that criterion is more than satisfied.  Wink
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SkepticAll
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:42 am

I do not think it feasible to have two sources provide different aircraft for the same mission. Below you will find an article which sums up the Air Force's position on such a proposition:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. Air Force would like to pick one company next summer to build a next-generation tanker plane, U.S. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne told Dow Jones Newswires on Monday.
The service is looking at whether to award as many as two initial contracts for its new tanker, Wynne said. But even at the beginning of the program, the service doesn't think it can afford two providers.

Full story at:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...BED4502FB0%7D&link=&keyword=airbus

[Edited 2006-09-25 17:55:49]
 
keesje
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:54 am

Smart move to avoid a showdown!
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MD-90
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:11 pm

Two words: Richard Shelby.

Don't count Northrop and EADS out yet.
 
columba
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 43):

Who is he ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:37 pm

Two interesting articles published today:

Quote:
777 to be Boeing's alternative proposal for tanker
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
At an Air Force Association conference today in Washington, D.C., Boeing will make public for the first time a proposed U.S. Air Force refueling tanker based on its very large 777 commercial passenger jet — a potential alternative to a midsize 767 tanker.



Source

Quote:
Boeing, Northrop-EADs await Air Force tanker proposal due today

Source
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Lumberton
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 44):
Who is he ?

Senator from the state of Alabama--one of 100.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Halibut
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 am

RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:59 am

Hhhmm  scratchchin 

Look what Boeing may be pitching up for the Tanker deal ???

The 777 !

Things are starting to get interesting !

 eyebrow 

Halibut

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Boeing_Tankers.html

Tuesday, September 26, 2006 · Last updated 2:56 p.m. PT

Boeing unveils 777 as alternative tanker proposal

By MATTHEW DALY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

At a military conference in Washington, Boeing unveiled specifics for a refueling tanker based on its large 777 commercial passenger jet. The plane could be an alternative to Boeing's midsize 767 tanker, which the company has pushed for nearly five years at a cost of more than $1 billion.

In documents distributed Tuesday, Boeing said the 777 tanker would have a maximum fuel capacity of more than 350,000 pounds, while the 767 has a maximum capacity of 200,000 pounds.
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
Halibut
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Perhaps , put I doubt it .

However , I was thinking a spit between the 777 & 767 ?

Now , would that be a good combo ????

Hhmm  scratchchin 

Halibut

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Boeing_Tankers.html

The proposed 777 tanker would have a much larger capacity for fuel, troops or cargo than either the 767 or a rival offer based on the Airbus A330. But it would cost more per plane and would need a longer runway, potentially reducing its flexibility in combat situations.
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
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RE: Eads Confident On Share Of US Air Tanker Deal

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 48):

Awesome! I'd love to see a KC-777! However, this caught my eye:

Quote:
But a top official stressed that Boeing has not decided which plane to offer in the high-profile competition for the tanker contract, which could be worth than $20 billion.

Then this...

Quote:
Over time, the Air Force likely will have a mixed tanker fleet, said Mark McGraw, Boeing vice president for tanker programs. "We just want them all to be Boeing planes."

The 777 would make a great replacement for the KC-10, but I can't see it doing all jobs given it's footprint. Now KC-777's to replace KC-10's and KC-787's as replacements for KC-135's, that would be a perfect world. cloudnine 
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