Alibo5NGN
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USS Intrepid

Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:57 pm

USS Intrepid is being towed out today from the pier near 42nd street to a shipyard in Bayonne New Jersey for a $50 million face lift. It will be towed across the Hudson River presenting a wonderful photographic opportunity for those in the New York City and Jersey City (New Jersey) areas (particularly in the high rises.

Good shooting.  thumbsup 
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DeltaGuy
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RE: USS Intrepid

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:19 pm

When will she be back in commission? I'm sure she'll look great, I'd imagine it's been decades since she was last in drydock and cleaned up.

Did they take all the a/c off her for display at the pier or what?

DeltaGuy
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LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:47 am

Looks like her move to dry dock has hit a little snag. Or in this case mud.

< http://apnews.myway.com//article/20061106/D8L7LTBO1.html >

If this had happened when she was in commission the captain would have been transferred to a desk pretty quick. Along with never seeing that first star.
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SP90
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:12 am

I don't understand how she could get stuck in mud while backing out into the river. I thought they used dredgers to clear a path for her already. Did they clean the mud under the ship as well or just the area directly behind? Plus why did they not remove the propellers when they decomissioned her? They are located underwater anyway so its not like visitor will notice its not there.

The pier will also get rebuilt as part of the project. Hopefully they will build a shelter for the Concord while their at it. I don't know where they will store the aircraft in the mean time. Maybe they will go to Floyd Bennett Field along with the Concord. They also pumped out 600 tons of water from the ballast tanks. If only those VIPs and elected officials would step off the boat too maybe she just might make it. =)
 
da man
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting SP90 (Reply 3):
Concord

You forgot the e at the end of that, the aircraft is called the Concorde.
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kc135topboom
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting SP90 (Reply 3):
I don't understand how she could get stuck in mud while backing out into the river. I thought they used dredgers to clear a path for her already. Did they clean the mud under the ship as well or just the area directly behind? Plus why did they not remove the propellers when they decomissioned her? They are located underwater anyway so its not like visitor will notice its not there.

The pier will also get rebuilt as part of the project. Hopefully they will build a shelter for the Concord while their at it. I don't know where they will store the aircraft in the mean time. Maybe they will go to Floyd Bennett Field along with the Concord. They also pumped out 600 tons of water from the ballast tanks.

First mud is extremely corrosive to steel ships. The memorial Battleship USS North Carolina, BB55, is also stuck in mud and will have to be dug out when she goes to Virgina for her refit in a few years. Even though the artical said the engines aboard Intrepid were removed years ago, that is not true. According to USN regulations, no parts required for recalling the warship to service may be removed without expressed approval of the USN. So, even the propellers are in place. When the Battleship USS Massachusetts, BB59, had her refit in Boston in 1999, Battleship Cove wanted to cut her propeller off the shafts, to display the propellers. The USN told them they could remove the propellers, but not cut the shafts, so only her outboard propellers were unbolted and removed.

Why don't they remove the display aircraft to help lighten the CV?
 
Cadet985
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
According to USN regulations, no parts required for recalling the warship to service may be removed without expressed approval of the USN. So, even the propellers are in place.

When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?

Marc
 
LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):
When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?

Not very accurate at all. When the USS Independence went through SLEP in the 1980's it took almost three years to complete. A ship that has been tied to a pier for the past couple decades is going to take a bit more time. If the Navy was really that hard up for a carrier they would recommisssion a carrier that was in service recently like the Constellation. Also remember that the Intrepid was not designed with modern aircraft in mind. Which means two things. One it will not be able to carry many aircraft. Two it might not be able to carry certain types.

In addition the deck is much smaller than a modern carrier. This leaves even less room for error. I suspect that the guide was pulling your leg.
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Devilfish
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RE: USS Intrepid

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Why don't they remove the display aircraft to help lighten the CV?

I believe they are waiting for the next record high tide for another attempt to unstuck her.

BTW, would there still be room on the Intrepid's topdeck for the F-117 Grey Dragon?
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kc135topboom
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RE: USS Intrepid

Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 8):
I believe they are waiting for the next record high tide for another attempt to unstuck her.

BTW, would there still be room on the Intrepid's topdeck for the F-117 Grey Dragon?

Waiting for the next super high tide makes sense. Yes, Intrepid does have room for an F-117A.
 
Devilfish
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RE: USS Intrepid

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:23 pm

Latest news on this say the USAF and Army Corps of Engineers will help in a new attempt to move the Intrepid.
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kc135topboom
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RE: USS Intrepid

Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 10):
Latest news on this say the USAF and Army Corps of Engineers will help in a new attempt to move the Intrepid.

USAF? I wonder what the Air Force is offering? Fox News Channel is saying the USN is going to dredge out the mud from around Intrepid's four propellers.
 
studedave
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RE: USS Intrepid

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):
When I visited the ship back in September, one of the guides told me that if the museum foundation got a call the next day that the USN needed the Intrepid back, it would take 18-24 months to fully renovate her back into a fighting ship, and modernize her. Does that seem accurate?



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7):
Not very accurate at all. When the USS Independence went through SLEP in the 1980's it took almost three years to complete. A ship that has been tied to a pier for the past couple decades is going to take a bit more time. If the Navy was really that hard up for a carrier they would recommisssion a carrier that was in service recently like the Constellation. Also remember that the Intrepid was not designed with modern aircraft in mind. Which means two things. One it will not be able to carry many aircraft. Two it might not be able to carry certain types.

In addition the deck is much smaller than a modern carrier. This leaves even less room for error. I suspect that the guide was pulling your leg.

SLEP is a bad example to use, and Carriers can do more then just launch a bunch of big heavy jets...
The Service Life Extension Program was designed to extend the life of the ships that entered it by 15-20 years, hence it's name. It rebuilt or replaced major components (cats for one) and upgraded some systems. The further into the program the more it was just band-aids, really. Those ships that went through it were also much bigger then CV11. I don't think it'd take nearly as long for this smaller ship. It would cost a lot of $$$, if not more, due to her age and amount of time she's been out of service.
Yes, the Navy would have to be VERY hard up to recall this old ship, and it's uses in today's Navy would be very limited. But a flight deck is a flight deck. Keep in mind, back in her day she only had helos, S2s/E1s or A1s and A4s. She'd deploy in concert with a bigger deck that had the bigger/heavier aircraft.
I'm sure she'd be able to launch whatever would fit on that small deck. She's only 100 feet shorter then Midway and Coral Sea... Maybe with new cats F/A18Cs could be launched? Even if only for a bunch of helos- she'd be useful...
Besides, with the Navy's helo plans that are coming down the road, it might not be a bad idea, really- we're fixin' to send alot more helos out on carriers, and they're all in the way!!!
The reallity of it all is she's really, really, really old, and there would have to be major work just to put her to sea, let alone think about any operations. Look at what it took to get the Iowas back to sea after all that time in mothballs. While it might be fun to cruise on something that old, it'd be no easy task, and the hardest hit would be to the checkbook~ everyday she's at sea would be very expensive!!!
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SP90
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Da man (Reply 4):
You forgot the e

Busted. Never trust spell checker.  Smile

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):

Thanks for that bit of info. I had no idea such a regulation existed.

Regarding the size of the Intrepid, isn't she about the size of the WASP class? If the USN really had a desperate need maybe they can use her purely for helos like they did with USS Lincoln during the tsunami relief. It will probably cost as much to make her sea worthy again as it take to build a new one.
 
Sinlock
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:41 pm

I'm sure if the dire "need it right now" for a Helo carrier ever happened.
It would be much faster and cheeper to the Navy to get its hands on a container ship and build a flight deck.

 
sprout5199
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting SP90 (Reply 13):
It will probably cost as much to make her sea worthy again as it take to build a new one.

But I dont cost would be the thing, time would be. say 24 months vs 60 for a new one. but if we were that hard up do like the Brits did, use container ships. a helo deck is a helo deck.

Dan in Jupiter
 
LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 12):
SLEP is a bad example to use, and Carriers can do more then just launch a bunch of big heavy jets...
The Service Life Extension Program was designed to extend the life of the ships that entered it by 15-20 years, hence it's name. It rebuilt or replaced major components (cats for one) and upgraded some systems. The further into the program the more it was just band-aids, really. Those ships that went through it were also much bigger then CV11. I don't think it'd take nearly as long for this smaller ship. It would cost a lot of $$$, if not more, due to her age and amount of time she's been out of service.

I think it's good example. The Intrepid has been tied to a pier for almost twenty five years. It's been striped of equipment. Even if equipment was left behind it would be so obsolete that it would have to be replaced anyway. Then there's the condition of the ships boilers, wiring, spaces, arresting gear and as you mentioned the catapults. Also take into account that the refurbishment of the Intrepid is going to take over a year to complete. If something like that will take over a year putting it back into commision will take a bit longer.

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 12):
She's only 100 feet shorter then Midway and Coral Sea... Maybe with new cats F/A18Cs could be launched? Even if only for a bunch of helos- she'd be useful...

We can eliminate the Super Hornet right off the bat for being to big. Even the standard Hornet might be pushing it. Then there's the issue of where you would get those Hornets. THe JSF is a canidate but that's not going to be coming online for a number of years. As for helos that's what LHA and LHD's are for.
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studedave
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16):
I think it's good example.

The point I was trying to make is that SLEP was for boats in service- This one is clearly not in that catagory!!! It would not be the same kind of project...

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16):
As for helos that's what LHA and LHD's are for.

The LHAs and LHDs were built for the Marines, and as such we (NAVY) don't use them much. The helos I was talking about are on REALLY BIG BOATS (CVNs) at the present time...
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kc135topboom
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 17):
The helos I was talking about are on REALLY BIG BOATS (CVNs) at the present time...

They are also on every Tico class CG, Burke class DDG, the few remaining Spruance class DDs and OHP class FFGs, and will be on the new DD(X), and later CG(X) and CVN(X) class warships. They are also aboard the USCG 901 class WMEC (278'ers) and larger classes of USCGCs. How many more helio carriers do we need?

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16):
Even if equipment was left behind it would be so obsolete that it would have to be replaced anyway. Then there's the condition of the ships boilers, wiring, spaces, arresting gear and as you mentioned the catapults. Also take into account that the refurbishment of the Intrepid is going to take over a year to complete. If something like that will take over a year putting it back into commision will take a bit longer.

Partially true. When the USN recommissioned the Iowa class BBs in the 1980s, they did not replace the 16" main battery solution computers (old mechanical computers designed in the late 1930s for the South Dakota and Iowa class BBs). Why, because, even in the 1980s, there was nothing better, more accurate, or faster at computing a firing solution for these big guns. Even though the computers were huge, by 1980s standards (about the size of an office desk), they took into account the targets distance, speed, course, your speed and course, outside air temperture, surface winds, winds aloft, sea state, number of shells already fired (gun temperture), gun elevation, and even curviture of the Earth, and many other factors.

Even though Intrepid's "refit" will take close to 2 years to complete, she will not spend all that time in dry dock. She is only scheduled for a few months in dry dock. The rest of the time she will be tied to the shipbuilders pier. Some of that time, she will not have any work done on her, she has to wait for her own pier to be removed and replaced with a new pier, and dredging of her birth.

But, to bring Intrepid up to the current USN standards, if she were ever to be recommissioned would probibly take about 48-60 months of work in the shipyards. This is slightly longer than it would take to return the four Iowas, Connie, Midway, Massachusetts, Lexington, and North Carolina to recommissionable condition. This is abvout as long as it would take Alabama, BB60, to recommission.
 
Tiger119
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
CV?

- Why does The Navy use the letters "CV" and CVN" for aircraft carriers? I'm sure the "C" is for "Carrier" and the "Ns" stand for "Nuclear" but why the "V?"

- Also, are not all the "CV" carriers gone from current use with the USN?

Thanks

David
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LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19):
Why does The Navy use the letters "CV" and CVN" for aircraft carriers? I'm sure the "C" is for "Carrier" and the "Ns" stand for "Nuclear" but why the "V?"

- Also, are not all the "CV" carriers gone from current use with the USN?

I beleive that the V stands for heavier than air aircraft. There are still two CV in active navy service. THe USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 and the USS John F Kennedy CV-67.
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Tiger119
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 20):
THe USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 and the USS John F Kennedy CV-67.

- And they are still steam powered? Could they be refitted with reactors?

David
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LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 21):
- And they are still steam powered? Could they be refitted with reactors?

Both are powered by eight boilers. As for the second question anything is possible I guess. However the ships were designed and built with boilers in mind not nuclear reactors. The cost of rebuilding them with reactors would be prohiblitvely expensive. Especially for ships that are approaching fifty years of age.

[Edited 2006-11-22 00:22:47]
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Tiger119
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:16 am

I am reading an article that mentions the U.S.S Lexington CVT-16 (I have been aboard her). She is sitting as a museum in Corpus Christi. What does the "T" in "CVT-16" stand for? Thank you,

David
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studedave
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
They are also on every Tico class CG, Burke class DDG, the few remaining Spruance class DDs and OHP class FFGs, and will be on the new DD(X), and later CG(X) and CVN(X) class warships. They are also aboard the USCG 901 class WMEC (278'ers) and larger classes of USCGCs. How many more helio carriers do we need?

Dude~ I KNOW where NAVY helos operate- been there, done that!!! I've gone to sea on~ 2 CVs, 5 CVNs, 2 CGs, 1 DD, and 1 FFG~ all in helo Squadrons. Please reread reply # 12~ I was only talking about CV/CVN ships and the helos that are on those bad boys!!!

The point I'm trying to make is that at the present time, with the exception of CVN-72, Carriers (CVs & CVNs) deploy with one helicoptor squadron that has 6 or 7 H60s. The other ships in the Group get Detachments from other Squadrons. In the very near future the Carriers' helo numbers will double. All the needs of the entire Battle Group will be met by two full Squadrons~ big deck, little deck- Oiler, Crusier, or Carrier.
I'm not talking about the Gators and/or Amphibs. That'll be a whole 'nother deal, 'cause they are their own Group, and do their own thing...
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da man
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 23):
What does the "T" in "CVT-16" stand for?

Training
The Lex was actually AVT-16 when she was decommissioned.
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L-188
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 23):
I am reading an article that mentions the U.S.S Lexington CVT-16 (I have been aboard her). She is sitting as a museum in Corpus Christi. What does the "T" in "CVT-16" stand for? Thank you

Training.....The Lex was for years the carrier that all the new pilots got to learn to shoot carrier landings on.

Frankly I think she should of continued in that role...Might as well give the pilot practice hitting a small target. Makes the big ones seem easy.
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studedave
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 23):
"CVT-16"

 Wow! WOW, there's one I've never seen before...  Confused  Yeah sure

Quoting Da man (Reply 25):
AVT-16

That's more like it, in her final role anyway...
She's had more arrested landings then any other carrier~ still to this day!!!  highfive 
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da man
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RE: USS Intrepid

Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 27):
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 23):
"CVT-16"

Wow! WOW, there's one I've never seen before

The Lex held the designation CVT-16 briefly in either the 70's or 80's before she was redesignated AVT-16.
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sprout5199
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:55 am

Looks like she is moving:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/05/uss.intrepid.ap/index.html



Dan in Jupiter
 
Corsair1107
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:13 am

Good to see they got everything taken care of. There are some neat aircraft on that thing. Is the renovation of the pier going to include a covered display area for the Concorde?
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DeltaGuy
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 26):
Training.....The Lex was for years the carrier that all the new pilots got to learn to shoot carrier landings on.

Interestingly enough, the A-7E on display on the Intrepid flew it's last flight off of the Lex, courtesy of my dad. He took the cat shot, and the entire left main mount ripped off upon the stroke, causing him to nearly eject but in the end continued the launch and took the wire at nearby NAS Pensacola. The Navy was about to retire the type and gave it to the museum.

Stinky part of the story- my dad's squadron (VA-46) left to go to Desert Storm, and left the jet to be painted by VA-105's paint shop...wouldn't you know it, those are the colors the jet are in to this day.

Damn the luck huh?

DeltaGuy
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747400sp
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7):
If the Navy was really that hard up for a carrier they would recommisssion a carrier that was in service recently like the Constellation.

Or hold off on decommission the Kitty Hawk. Also, if the USN need more of anything, it would have to be AOE's. An T-AO, T-AFS, T-AE or the new T-AKE, do not have the speed to keep up with a carrier strike grope.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: USS Intrepid

Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 32):
Or hold off on decommission the Kitty Hawk.

The Navy is holding off on decommissioning the Kitty Hawk, at least for another 5 years, or so. Even though she is "newer", Kennedy will decommision in late 2007 or sometime in 2008. She will eventually be replaced by the new USS George H.W. Bush, CVN-78.

But, at some point, in the next few years, the USN will scale back to 11 CVBGs.
 
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STT757
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RE: USS Intrepid

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
But, at some point, in the next few years, the USN will scale back to 11 CVBGs.

There should be 12 Carrier battle groups, six each in the Atlantic and Pacific.

Atlantic:
Norfolk 5
Jacksonville/Mayport 1

Pacific:
Bremerton 1
Everette 1
San Diego 2
Saesabo Japan 1
Pearl Harbor 1
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UALPHLCS
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RE: USS Intrepid

Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:50 pm

BTW the mud problem the Intrepid experiences is due to the pier she is tied up to. So eventually when they need to do this again, and according to Historic Naval Ships Assc. and the National Parks preservation guides this ought to be done every 20 years, the mud will build up again.

The Battleship New Jersey eliminated this problem. Look at Google Earth, you'll see the bow of the BB62 is pointed out toward the opposite shore. The stern is very close to the shore. This design make the current of the Delaware run through like a funnel scouring the river bed, preventing silt build-up.

The Intrepid is tied up perpendicular to the current and the tides bring in silt from both directions. Unless they design the pier, Intrepid will have to undergo this rehab more often than BB62.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
LMP737
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RE: USS Intrepid

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 34):
There should be 12 Carrier battle groups, six each in the Atlantic and Pacific.

Atlantic:
Norfolk 5
Jacksonville/Mayport 1

Pacific:
Bremerton 1
Everette 1
San Diego 2
Saesabo Japan 1
Pearl Harbor 1

I doubt that we will ever see a carrier home ported at Pearl Harbor. The expense of moving a carrier and it's associated air wing would be incredibly expensive. First there's the cost of moving the families of the service members. Then there's the cost of the facilities to support a carrier. Of course you would have to find some place to put the carrier air wing. The Navy already pulled out of Barbers Point and moved to Kanehoe. You would have to options. One to expand Kanehoe, even though it only has one runway. Or move back into Barbers Point even though new residents have moved in.
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studedave
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RE: USS Intrepid

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:18 am

 scratchchin  Someone please refresh my memory- weren't Pearl Harbor and Guam both being looked at as possible Carrier 'bases' sometime ago? I know it'd sure cut down on response time to the 'hot spots' of the World.

One other thing I've NEVER figured out in 18 years of service is why we always seem to deploy more often here on the West Coast while those guys on the East Coast hang out and watch it all happen on CNN...
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STT757
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RE: USS Intrepid

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:25 pm

I've read that the Pentagon wants to move a carrier from the Continental US to one of three places ; Guam, Pearl Harbor, Western Australia.

Guam would offer the best location as it would be closer to Taiwan, Korean Peninsula or even the Persian Gulf. The US Navy has moved 3-4 Attack subs permanently to Apra Harbor Guam because of their ability to stay on station longer, eventually there will be 5 attack subs based at Apra Harbor Guam.

Apra Harbor Guam is perfectly located however it's smaller than Pearl Harbor and might not have the berthing capacity to host a permanently based Carrier battle group. As for an Carrier air wing Andersen AFB is huge, it has lot's of room to host the Air Force Expeditionary Wings of F-22s and B-1s/B-2s that are now being rotated through as well as Navy P-3s and a Carrier Air Wing.

The United States and Japan recently reached an agreement that will move 8,000 Marines from Okinawa to Guam, most aircraft will move to a new airfield on Okinawa but some will move to Guam.

If a regional crisis required a surge Andersen AFB might get a little crowded with the Air Force, Navy and Marines. Although during Vietnam's Linebacker missions Andersen was packed with 100+ B-52s.

Pearl Harbor is a great location for a carrier battle group, it has adequate facilities both port and land side. It's also a desirable station for sailors and families, as mentioned Kanehoe Bay MCAS host Marine and Navy P-3 squadrons. It's one runway is not adequate for a Carrier Air wing, as mentioned the options are limited but include;

Reopening Barbers Point, it's the most logical but might be costly moving the new tenants. Reopening Barbers Point would also free up space at Kanehoe bay MCAS for the Marines to establish a Marine Expeditionary Brigade, the Marines have been studying basing a Marine Expeditionary Brigade there since 2002. This would bring additional helicopters and F-18s to Kanehoe Bay MCAS, 36 F-18s were move from Kanehoe Bay to the West Coast of the US to make room for the Navy's P-3s.

The third option would be to base a Carrier battle group on the West Coast of Australia which has been supportive of the idea from what I've read, it would probably be in Perth.
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RE: USS Intrepid

Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:02 am

Don't get me wrong, it would be preety cool to have a carrier home ported at Pearl Harbor. However I just doubt it will happen due to budget constraints. The Navy looked into the possiblity in the late 90's but decided against it because of the expense. Given the size of the budget deficit now and the cost of operations in Iraq and Afgahanistan I don't think it will come to fruition.
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:12 am

Just curious but could anyone hazard a guess as to how much quicker a carrier could reach say Taiwan from Hawaii vs San Diego or Washinton State?
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
Just curious but could anyone hazard a guess as to how much quicker a carrier could reach say Taiwan from Hawaii vs San Diego or Washinton State?

That would depend on how big of a 'hurry' the ship is in... those CVNs are FAST!!! They have been known to leave their support ships in the dust~ CGs, DDGs, FFGs, and supply boats can not keep up with the much bigger boat at flank speed!!!  Wow!  Yeah sure

Generally when we leave the West Coast, Hawaii is about 10 days away.
If we're in a big hurry~ like on the way home checkeredflag ~ it can be done in five.
The biggest thing that must be taken into account is the Air Wing.
Are they up to date on their qualifications? If not add at least 2 days. More if the weather is bad- which happens alot more then you would think. We can't go 'over the horizon' until all pilots are qual'd for blue water ops.
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:40 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 35):
The Battleship New Jersey eliminated this problem. Look at Google Earth, you'll see the bow of the BB62 is pointed out toward the opposite shore. The stern is very close to the shore. This design make the current of the Delaware run through like a funnel scouring the river bed, preventing silt build-up.

The Intrepid is tied up perpendicular to the current and the tides bring in silt from both directions. Unless they design the pier, Intrepid will have to undergo this rehab more often than BB62.

Or look at the Battleship Massachusetts, in Fall River, MA. She is berth in line with the prevailing currents and tides. When she went into dry dock, in Boston, in 1999, her berth did not require any dredging. She has some 40' of water under her keel.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
Guam would offer the best location as it would be closer to Taiwan, Korean Peninsula or even the Persian Gulf. The US Navy has moved 3-4 Attack subs permanently to Apra Harbor Guam because of their ability to stay on station longer, eventually there will be 5 attack subs based at Apra Harbor Guam.

Apra Harbor Guam is perfectly located however it's smaller than Pearl Harbor and might not have the berthing capacity to host a permanently based Carrier battle group. As for an Carrier air wing Andersen AFB is huge, it has lot's of room to host the Air Force Expeditionary Wings of F-22s and B-1s/B-2s that are now being rotated through as well as Navy P-3s and a Carrier Air Wing.

The United States and Japan recently reached an agreement that will move 8,000 Marines from Okinawa to Guam, most aircraft will move to a new airfield on Okinawa but some will move to Guam.

If a regional crisis required a surge Andersen AFB might get a little crowded with the Air Force, Navy and Marines. Although during Vietnam's Linebacker missions Andersen was packed with 100+ B-52s.

Andersen is a good place for the land support a CVN would need for it's air wing. But, has NAS Aganya closed?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
Just curious but could anyone hazard a guess as to how much quicker a carrier could reach say Taiwan from Hawaii vs San Diego or Washinton State?

Normal cruise speed for USN warships is about 15 knots, so using a great circle (which they normally do not use) takes about 10 days from the US West Coast to Hawaii.

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 41):
That would depend on how big of a 'hurry' the ship is in... those CVNs are FAST!!! They have been known to leave their support ships in the dust~ CGs, DDGs, FFGs, and supply boats can not keep up with the much bigger boat at flank speed!!!

If a CVN is deploying to a crisis, she will not leave her escorts or supply ships. But, what you say is true. About the only surface combatant that could keep up with a CVN at flank speed was an Iowa class BB, or maybe the old steam ship the SS United States (IIRC she is still tied up in Philly).
 
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:39 am

The Naval Air Station on Guam was located at the International airport, BRAC closed the facility and the Navy now shares space for their rotating P-3, F-18 and E-2C squadrons with the Air Force and soon some Marines when they move from Okinawa.

Andersen is huge, you can spend alot of time looking around on Google Earth.There's two runways and tons of apron space.

Again Guam is the best geographic location, however Pearl Harbor has more berthing capacity and I'm sure much better housing and Morale and Welfare opportunities.
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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 42):
But, what you say is true. About the only surface combatant that could keep up with a CVN at flank speed was an Iowa class BB, or maybe the old steam ship the SS United States (IIRC she is still tied up in Philly).

SS United States still holds the Trans-Atlantic Crossing record, and her hull is STILL classified.

It was designed by the Navy so she could serve as a high speed troop ship.

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RE: USS Intrepid

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 42):
takes about 10 days from the US West Coast to Hawaii.

Didn't someone say that already???

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 42):
Normal cruise speed for USN warships is about 15 knots, so using a great circle (which they normally do not use)

Yes and no~ been there, done that!!! When a CVN is going somewhere it's NEVER in a straight line, and it's usually much faster then 15 knots... flight ops (and the need for wind) make that so.
The rest of the Battle Group, on the other hand~ they do their thing and let the Carrier play catch up at night- that's when we make up time!!!
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