NZ8800
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Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:12 am

I was just wondering how many troops could be seated, on what looks like the A380 of the fifties! Does it - in reality - compare in size to today's double decker? In photographs, it looks like it does.

This photograph was taken at RNZAF Ohakea, May 1954.


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Photo © Colin Zuppicich

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474218
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:44 am

The aircraft in the picture is a Douglas C-124 Globemaster. Nothing to do with Lockheed.

[Edited 2006-11-15 02:57:57]
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:48 pm

The C-124 could carry up to 200 troops, according to this old copy of Jane's that I have here. It had the nickname "Crowd Killer" after 129 people died in a crash in Japan in1953. I think that was the highest death toll at the time in a single crash. I used to see them flying when I was a kid...very shallow departure climb-even worse than the DC-6's and C-117's that were around back then.

They were employed in the Antarctic transport business as well as all the Cold War theatres and Asia up until 1974.
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Ferret
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:51 pm

According to http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c124.asp

"It was capable of handling such bulky cargo as tanks, field guns, bulldozers, and trucks (up to 74,000 pounds of cargo). It could also be converted into a transport capable of carrying 200 fully-equipped troops in its double-decked cabin or 123 litter patients and their attendants."

So how many fare paying pax are the equivalent of 200 fully-equipped troops?
Murphy lives here.
 
crownvic
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Simply put, the Globemaster was the predecessor of the C-5 Galaxy for military transport. Back in the 1960's, living along the Lersey shore, I had the pleasure of listening to these loaded down beasts climbing out of Dover AFB heading to Europe. A few years later, the C-5 would take over and still does this same mission today.
 
474218
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 4):
Simply put, the Globemaster was the predecessor of the C-5 Galaxy for military transport. Back in the 1960's, living along the Lersey shore, I had the pleasure of listening to these loaded down beasts climbing out of Dover AFB heading to Europe. A few years later, the C-5 would take over and still does this same mission today.

Between the C-124 and the C-5 there was the:

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Curmudgeon
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:52 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
Between the C-124 and the C-5 there was the:

Douglas C-133 Vanisher. An imposing looking beast for a cargo hauler, and one of my favourite looking planes of all time
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MEA-707
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:01 pm

Quoting NZ8800 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering how many troops could be seated, on what looks like the A380 of the fifties! Does it - in reality - compare in size to today's double decker?

I saw a preserved C-124 once and it doesn't look all that big. Just a higher bulky DC-7 sized airframe, not longer then a C-130 Hercules or 737-200.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 7):
I saw a preserved C-124 once and it doesn't look all that big. Just a higher bulky DC-7 sized airframe, not longer then a C-130 Hercules or 737-200.

 checkmark 

It says here that the overall length was 130 ft long, so 738 size or so.

I have been inside one and recall being awed, but that was in 1972 when everything impressed me. The double deck and high ground clearance made it look imposing, and the nose doors and ramp were very cool.

Also, at 216,000 lbs MTOW on 15,200 h.p no wonder the climb was so shallow. By comparison, a 738 lifts 174,200 lbs with 54,600 lbs thrust.
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diamond
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:24 pm

Don't forget the C-141, which preceeded the C5a.
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Reedyreed
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:24 pm

let us not forget the cargo hauler & airtanker that became a workhorse in the early days of the COLD WAR YRS & begining of SAC for the USAF before all these which of course was the Boeing C/KC97 STRAT. This great Proptransport even today still exists as a flying example & soon will be brought back to the skies by way of the Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation when project is complete. better known in civilian terms as the 377 Stratocruiser of the 50s & had a downstairs lounge that could seat about 14 people with a circular stairway! a lot of history to be told about this great Propliner,Prop transport&Airtanker for the USAF.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 7):
I saw a preserved C-124 once and it doesn't look all that big.

I agree - from today's point of view. At the time "old shaky" was staggering! Even then, of course, it was not as big as the XC-99 or the Hughes H-1 Hercules (Spruce Goose) but those were one-offs and you were never likely to see one.

The sheer volume of the C-124 fuselage makes it tower over you on the ramp. Walk up the nose ramp and there was a long ladder leading to the upper deck and the cockpit. I once hovered past one on the ramp and lifted my OH-23 up to eyeball-to-eyeball height with the pilots. I was out of ground effect. The little tailcone fairing has more interior space than a Cessna 208 Caravan. The rudder probably weighs as much as a C-150. Each engine has more parts than a Bonanza.

At the time; in the frame of reference of those days before the 707, it was gigantic. Considering there was nothing better than some anemic 4360 cubic inch piston engines to power it, the Globemaster was quite an achievment.

So I was shocked when I realized that the gross weight was only slightly more than an A-321. But then the A-380 is heavier than the XC-99 and the Spruce Goose put together, so on it goes.
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HaveBlue
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Reedyreed (Reply 10):
let us not forget the... which of course was the Boeing C/KC97 STRAT

Which is intersting because it:

Started as the B-29 Superfortress,
then progressed to the KB-50,
then was double decked and turned into the KC-97 Stratotanker and Boeing 337 Airliner
which was then supersided into the Mini/Pregnant/Super Guppy.

Pretty interesting morphing and changing of roles, from super sleek bomber to cargo plane to airliner to outsize cargo.

 Smile
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SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 12):
turned into the KC-97 Stratotanker and Boeing 337 Airliner

One of my flight school classmates rode from the east coast of the US to Vietnam on one of those. (SC ANG maybe?) It took forever, was a grueling experience on canvas troopseats. Hated it until someone pointed out that his tour in Vietnam started when the took off out of Charleston. He skipped about three days "in country" time.

Some times slow is a good thing.
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studedave
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 12):
Pretty interesting morphing and changing of roles, from super sleek bomber to cargo plane to airliner to outsize cargo.

Yup, ya gotta dig that B29/337/B50/KC97/Guppy family!!!  Cool
I know that I do, even if I've never even set foot in one. Maybe someday...  airplane 
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L-188
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 6):
An imposing looking beast for a cargo hauler

Anybody remember the plane that "prototyped" it....The C-74?


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Bonus Points: Can you name the Michael Caine Film that also featured the C-74?

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 8):
I have been inside one and recall being awed, http://www1.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/57564/but that was in 1972 when everything impressed me. The double deck and high ground clearance made it look imposing, and the nose doors and ramp were very cool.

The A-10 prototype was flown to Edwards AFB in a C-124, just to give you an idea of how big the inside was.

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 12):
Started as the B-29 Superfortress,
then progressed to the KB-50,
then was double decked and turned into the KC-97 Stratotanker and Boeing 337 Airliner
which was then supersided into the Mini/Pregnant/Super Guppy.

Which was copied into the TU-4, that was used as a basis for the original IL-18 airliner(not the turboprop) and the TU-70 Airliner and the TU-80, 85, Bombers.
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SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 12):
interesting morphing

Kind of like the Beech Bonanza
which became a twin Bonanza
which became a Queen Air
which became a King Air and a Swearingen Merlin I
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vzlet
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 16):
Kind of like the Beech Bonanza
which became a twin Bonanza
which became a Queen Air
which became a King Air and a Swearingen Merlin I

...and a Mentor!
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ronglimeng
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):

Bonus Points: Can you name the Michael Caine Film that also featured the C-74?

That would be "Italian Job" (1969). The plane was painted up as a Chinese transport. Good choice too, it does look kind of "Chinese", (or "Russian").
 
RC135U
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 14):
Yup, ya gotta dig that B29/337/B50/KC97/Guppy family!!!
I know that I do, even if I've never even set foot in one. Maybe someday...

Then treat yourself and get up to the Castle Air Museum. Their KC-97L was open for inspection last time I was there, along with an old hand boomer who was glad to show me "his" plane.
 
KPDX
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting RC135U (Reply 19):
Then treat yourself and get up to the Castle Air Museum

Yep! Great place, went there in 2003 for my familys yearly California trip! I walked around the KC-97!  bigthumbsup 

KPDX  Smile
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Dougloid
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
At the time; in the frame of reference of those days before the 707, it was gigantic. Considering there was nothing better than some anemic 4360 cubic inch piston engines to power it, the Globemaster was quite an achievment.

Anemic is a relative term-as recips go it was a big 'un and sure sounded good at full tilt boogie. The first time my old man went to the UK was on a BOAC Stratocruiser from Idlewild, now better known as JFK-hadda be 1955 or 1956, and we took him over there and put him on the plane which had bunks and everything-it was quite a long flight.

Now....had the government gone ahead with the XR7755, who knows what would have happened with the Globemaster?


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xr7755B
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SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 21):
had the government gone ahead with the XR7755

Would that be the same engine I saw at Silver Hill a few years ago? It was pretty impressive.

My fave though is this one:

And yes, if you are really sharp-eyed that IS five 6-cylinder Chrysler flathead blocks and heads around a single crankshaft. Just think of it - a thundering 445 horsepower!
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L-188
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 18):
That would be "Italian Job" (1969). The plane was painted up as a Chinese transport. Good choice too, it does look kind of "Chinese", (or "Russian").

Got a winner and it is a better flick then the sequel IMHO.

Did you catch the cable elevator on the airplane to load and unload it. The original C-124 prototype also used the same system before they put in the nose doors.

Ok, another trivia question, What John Wayne featured a shot of him being revealed by the opening nose doors of the C-124 that just flew him in.

Hint...he just landed in Venzualea.
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Stealthz
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 21):
Anemic is a relative term-as recips go it was a big 'un and sure sounded good at full tilt boogie.

My father has often told of witnessing a C-124 leaving Ton Son Nhut in Saigon back in '64/65.
The big freighter had a starter problem on one engine and was not likely to go anywhere. Cutting the story short, the crew, showing considerable common sense felt that a cold beer and a warm bed back on Guam was a much more attractive option than lying awake listening to the nightly mortar attacks in Saigon.
They taxied their 3 engined bird to the end of the runway, set the ignition, mixtures and pitch on the dead engine and roared off down the runway, when the engined windmilled to life they turned, taxied back to the end of the Rwy and left for home.
Certainly seemed to impress my dad and his RAAF buddies in their little Caribou.
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Dougloid
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 22):
And yes, if you are really sharp-eyed that IS five 6-cylinder Chrysler flathead blocks and heads around a single crankshaft. Just think of it - a thundering 445 horsepower!

And once they started using stellite valves and seats, more reliable than any other Sherman motor except maybe the Jimmy diesel. Her's another shot. I've got some pictures of it on my blog that were used with permission of Fons Paulsen, a Belgian dude who was in on a rebuild and reconditioning of a Sherman Firefly.


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Chrysler A57 courtesy of Paulsen
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SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 23):
What John Wayne featured a shot of him being revealed by the opening nose doors of the C-124 that just flew him in.

Movie: "The Hellfighters" based loosely on the life and career of Red Adair.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
L-188
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 26):
Movie: "The Hellfighters" based loosely on the life and career of Red Adair.

Winner......Red was actually a technical advisor for the film.

You know having bought supplies for two oil spills this year...I am convinced you couldn't make that film today. The safety goons and granola crunchers would never go for it.
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SlamClick
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RE: Lockheed Globemaster

Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 27):
you couldn't make that film today

For much the same reason that the USAF changed the old "Oil Burner" routes to "Olive Branch" routes. The illusion of social conscience.

"No planets were harmed in the making of this film."

BTW the iMax movie about the oil fires of Kuwait that I saw at the Smithsonian was absolutely staggering. Do not miss this film.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.

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