747400sp
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Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:48 pm

During the cold war, if the USAF build a transport jet, the USSR would build a answer to it. The IL 76 was the answer to the C 141 Starlifter, the An 124 ( An 400) condor was the answer to the C-5 Galaxy. The C-17 Globemaster 3 was design during the cold war, but the cold war was over by time the C-17 had it's test flight. Was there a USSR answer to the C-17 that was cancel after the cold war came to an end?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-1

Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:07 pm

The Il-76 Candid is actually pretty comparable. Though seemingly a response to the Starlifter, the Candid had some rough field capabilities that the Starlifter did not. With that said, I don't believe the Candid has the C-17's STOL capabilities.

Anyhow, there is not really any other operational or future CIS aircraft in between the An-70 (which almost directly comparable to the A400M) and An-124 other than the Il-76.
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A342
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:48 am

One could say the stretched and re-engined IL-76MF is some sort of an answer to the C-17.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 2):
One could say the stretched and re-engined IL-76MF is some sort of an answer to the C-17.

Yes, but most Il-76s can only haul about 60% of the C-17's load, and even the Il-76MF can only lift about 80% as much. I don't think the cargo bay is as wide, either.
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:56 am

I would have been almost impossable for the USSR, to develop an aircraft comparable to the C-17. The C-17 flew for the first time in September 1991. The USSR had collapsed and no longer existed by December 1991.
 
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:27 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
During the cold war, if the USAF build a transport jet, the USSR would build a answer to it.

No, they did not. The Russians just happened to need military (and civil) airlifters, and built what they thought they needed to their own requirements, in their own timescale, obviously having a good look at foreign designs, but not governed by them.

While the C-130 is superior to the An-12, the Il-76 is much better (and newer) than the C-141, and the same is true to some extent for the An-124 vs Fred. And the An-22 had no counterpart in the West.

The Il-76 was and is doing fine and if the USSR had remained a superpower, it would have been developed further and would have met the needs for aircraft in that class for the foreseeable future. The C-17 may be a bit better (mostly because of superior engines), but not nearly enough to justify the expensive development of an entirely new aircraft. Had there been a US aircraft very similar to the Il-76 (the C-141 is not), the C-17 would never have been.

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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
During the cold war, if the USAF build a transport jet, the USSR would build a answer to it.

Kids cold war thinking. I anything good came out of Russia it must have been copied.

The last transporter developed in the east was the An-70, an answer to what? http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...tonov_Aviation_Video-2599.html?s=y
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
During the cold war, if the USAF build a transport jet, the USSR would build a answer to it.

The types of systems that would need to be answered to are tactical and strategic systems that present a threat needing to be negated. Support systems are not developed to counter opposing support systems. Although many aircraft may look similar and beg the question of being copied, I think it is more of engineers coming to similar conclusions on how to optimize cargo handling and movement.

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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-1

Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
The last transporter developed in the east was the An-70, an answer to what?

Directly comparable to the A400M in almost every way. However, the An-70 flew first, twelve years ago. Draw your own conclusions as to who copied whom.

[Edited 2007-01-02 18:54:32]
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 5):
While the C-130 is superior to the An-12,

Sure the C130J is, but who says the older versions are ?

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 5):
And the An-22 had no counterpart in the West.

Well, a similar aircraft was planned by Douglas, but it got cancelled. Instead, they built the smaller C-133.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 9):
Sure the C130J is, but who says the older versions are ?

Most of the world's air forces seemed to think so.
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 10):
Most of the world's air forces seemed to think so.

Nah, come on, you know that was cold war politics, they didn't have a choice !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
747400sp
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 11):
Nah, come on, you know that was cold war politics, they didn't have a choice !

Then why so many country's buy C-130 instead of An-12!

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 5):
No, they did not.

There was an arms race going on during the clod war.
 
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:52 am

Buying it at the time would have had political connotations(i.e being an ally of the soviet) plus the soviets stopped producing the type quite early in 1973, literally giving away all the market of those that weren't interested in politics for the C-130(and the C-160 Transall to a lesser degree).
 
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 12):
There was an arms race going on during the clod war.

So what? Read F4wso's intelligent answer in reply 7. As the Russian army staff you have a concept to move your stuff, and your transport aircraft fit into that. The apperance of the C-17 on the other side doesn't change your concept immediately, unlike the appearance of say, the B-2 which may force you to change your air defence concept.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 12):
Then why so many country's buy C-130 instead of An-12!

Because most of them were clients of the US. But, indeed, I was hinting at neutral countries which had a choice, and most of them bought the C-130.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-1

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 12):
Then why so many country's buy C-130 instead of An-12!

Because
a) it isn't produced anymore, except by the Chinese
b) the C-130J, the only C-130 still being offered, is indeed superior.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
747400sp
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RE: Did The Ussr Every Design An Answer To The C-17?

Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:15 am

I just fond a Russian counterpart to the C-17. The IL 106, it was never built, but it near the same size as a C-17.

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