RichardPrice
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BAE In More Corruption Probes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:04 am

Seems the Eurofighter issue wasnt enough, the British Government have confirmed that BAE is facing probes into corruption issues surrounding deals in six countries - South Africa, Tanzania, Romania, Chile, Czech Republic and Qatar.

The Serious Fraud Office is looking into these claims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6339625.stm
 
saintsman
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:21 pm

There is a fine line between what is percieved as corruption and an inducement. Corruption is paying someone to not do something they should otherwise do. An inducement is paying someone to do something that they should do. An inducement is not illegal.

In many of the overseas markets an inducement is they normal way of life. Just because its not the way in the UK, it does not make it wrong. If British companies did not pay what is considered here 'a bit on the side' there would not be so many sales made and if British companies didn't pay inducements, foreign companies would.
 
deskflier
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RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 1):
An inducement is paying someone to do something that they should do.

So, if that someone is competent he/she is going to take that action anyway, right?

Let´s face it, no weapons deal has ever been closed without the involvement of bribes/inducements/commissions/counter-buys. And like Saintsman states:

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 1):
In many of the overseas markets an inducement is they normal way of life.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
Lumberton
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RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 2):
Let´s face it, no weapons deal has ever been closed without the involvement of bribes/inducements/commissions/counter-buys.

So it's OK? Why isn't the KC-767 flying in USAF colors right now? I sense a bit of a double standard here....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
deskflier
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
So it's OK?

No, but neither is killing Your fellow neighbour. It´s just a fact of life.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
Lumberton
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
It´s just a fact of life.

So we should stop pretending and let companies pay "commissions" or bribes? Are you saying the anti-bribery laws already on the books in the EU and elsewhere are just a "feel good" exercise and should be ignored when the opportunity to sell a few dozen fighter jets arises? Once on this slippery slope, where does it end?

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
o, but neither is killing Your fellow neighbour

Hijack alert. So it's Cain's fault for killing Abel? Wink
Why bother with the laws in the first place? Frankly, if U.S. companies are distorting the market by paying bribes, I would cheer prosecution efforts to stop this because of the distortion on the market place: the best product won't ever win.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
RichardPrice
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RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:19 pm

I think the main issue here is not one of 'everyone does it' or even 'its normal in these sort of countries', but rather 'its illegal in the home country of the company'.

The reason why the KC-767 deal is different is because both parties were in the US, and it involved US taxpayers money. The BAE case is interesting because the laws under which they are being investigated do not apply to cases pre 2002 or so, and the events under investigation predate that. The investigations are to discover whether there are any infactions that can be persued.
 
Lumberton
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:36 pm

As edifying as this discussion is, can I bring it back on topic? According to article cited by the thread starter, some are not willing to take "no" for an answer WRT the SFO dropping the Al Yamamah corruption probe, even though it clearly is outside the statute of limitations....

Quote:
The Liberal Democrats have called for a National Audit Office report into the Al Yamamah arms deal to be made public.
"The abandonment of this (SFO) investigation has undermined Parliament, the rule of law and Britain's reputation for implementing anti-bribery legislation," their deputy leader Vince Cable said.
Mr O'Brien's remarks came a day after the Attorney General's Office said it was launching an external review of how the SFO investigated and prosecuted fraud cases.

So is the investigation into allegations of BAE-Saudi corruption dead and is all this just political "noise"?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
RichardPrice
Topic Author
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RE: BAE In More Corruption Probes

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
So is the investigation into allegations of BAE-Saudi corruption dead and is all this just political "noise"?

No, they were looking for infractions that may be under statute, and the investigation was wound up before that could be ascertained.

Thats why theres noise here, BAE isnt cleared of this, it was a political decision.

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