Leezyjet
Topic Author
Posts: 3540
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

Save The Red Arrows

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:25 am

It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.

click here to sign the petition to save them :-

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

The Red's are one of the best teams in the world and loosing them would be another blow to our country's aviation heritage. They represent us all over the place every year, and are one of the greatest recruitment sources for the RAF.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
deskflier
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:01 am

No, NO, NOOOOO, please let me see at least one of their shows first.(desperation)

Why not get rid of the Historic Flight as well, and every other unit of the RAF.(sarcasm)

Seems like the Old Labour is back, cutting defence budgets.(sincerity)
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:54 am

That would be very unfortunate. That team is a national icon. Loosing them would be a huge blow to RAF pride and tradition.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
click here to sign the petition to save them

Done.

I've seen the Red Arrows perform abroad a few times. Even though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers, every time. It would be a different matter if nobody outside the UK had heard of them.
 
deskflier
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
click here to sign the petition to save them

Would, but there was a requirement that the signer had to be British.

Quoting David L (Reply 3):
though other display teams perform some equally spectacular manoeuvres, the Red Arrows draw the biggest cheers

My sister once saw a display by the Arrows, and she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:44 am

Getting rid of the red Arrows...wow. And I though the lawmakers in the US could do some stupid stuff. I've never had an opportunity to see them live. What a pitiful decision.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.

Hmm... there are two ways of looking at that.  Smile
 
ebj1248650
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:17 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter):
It appears that Tony BLiar and his fellow cronies are trying to get rid of the world famous Royal Airforce Aerobatic Team, The Red Arrows by withdrawing their funding.

O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment. I didn't see a thing mentioning the original document, news media release or anything else that points to a source claiming the British government is about to disband the Red Arrows. So let's uncover the source and go from there. Personally, I can't believe the British would be so naive as to disband what has become one of the premier military aerobatic teams in the world. Given the longevity of the team, it must be darn good or it wouldn't have remained this long. And let's face it, the annual savings wouldn't be that great.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
deskflier
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:41 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Quoting Deskflier (Reply 4):
she said afterwards that through the entire show she felt safe in a way that is not the norm when aerobatic teams show their stuff.

Hmm... there are two ways of looking at that.

No there really isn´t. A team that made a less spectacular show to achieve greater public safety wouldn´t stay long in the airshow game. But some teams (forgive me for singling out one of too many), Frecce Tricolori in the early to mid-nineties comes to mind, just makes the audience expect an accident. Then we have teams like the Red Arrows who gives the audience a positive memory for life and not even the airshow safety officer worries about any accidents during their performance.

Anyway, getting rid of the Red Arrows would be like if Tony Blair would sack all his spin doctors, both are crucial to public image.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:43 am

Here we go again.....
This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?

Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

Interesting conversation with a friend recently who works at the Ministry Of Defence (involved in the procurement of kit for Special Forces, 'money is no object now').
We both agreed that in our respective employments, (me at BA), the press are fundamentally incapable of accurate reporting, forever seeking scandal and when not successful, jazzing up stories to make up for it.

He pointed out, that unreported in all the MoD 'waste' stories-notoriously the expensive office chairs one, was that in 1997, the MoD had 7 major buildings in Central London, the World's most expensive city.
Now, 2 soon to be one.
The press forgot to mention that the expensive re-furb of the main building in Whitehall, that they derided, was not only to accomodate remaining staff (after many job cuts) from the former buildings-sold at expectedly high prices, into Main Building, as well as needed upgrades such as secure computers, bomb blast protection etc.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):



Quoting GDB (Reply 9):

Oh well, if you're going to be sensible about it  Smile ... I did kind of jump straight in. It wasn't until last night I started thinking along the lines of...

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):
O.K. folks, let's slow down just a moment.



Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

And, before anyone asks: no, I haven't fallen for any Nigerian e-mail scams.  biggrin 
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:37 am

But I don't think that not registering, in some form or other, the wide support for the team does any harm anyway.
No doubt someone at the MoD has done some kind of cost/benefit analysis.
 
777
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:45 pm

We had some months ago a similar story when an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".

The reaction from the public opinion was strong enough to shut up this idiot in few days!
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:22 am

I just started a thread on saving the "Reds" and had it cut by a mediator probably because this one already exists, ...so suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them. There are 41,000 signatures on that petition now but in the last two days it looks like it might be starting to flat line.

It only takes about one minute to vote at ... http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

If you don't live in the U.K. but have a passport click on expatriate.
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting 777 (Reply 12):
an old, stupid and communist senator here in Italy stated a similar thing about our beloved Frecce Tricolori saying that "they are noisy and polluting".

Not to mention the fire risk from dropping those flares  Smile. I saw them at Payerne a couple of years ago but I was buying lunch during their display so I didn't manage to get any photos of their "flare" routine - pretty spectaclar.

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 13):
suggest Englishmen keep replying to this thread to get more votes in for them

Won't my vote count?  Smile
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting David L (Reply 14):
Won't my vote count?

I apologise that was a slip of the tongue, or so to speak. ...My wife is Welsh and she would haul me over the coals for it too.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 9):
This has come up almost every year I can remember.
Worries about the future of this team also, whether the thread starter likes it or no, well predate the current government.
In fact, the only time it did really look as if it really might happen was in the early 1990's, when John Major was PM.
However, Leezyjet is right about the positive recruiting tool it is, that will weigh very heavily on any decision.
Reducing MoD funding for more commercial sponsors, (which I suspect is the truth behind this), why not?

Could it happen, of course, is it likely? No.

Don't be too sure there must be piles of taxpayers money disappearing in deep holes in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years and that could effect this issue.

Vote at :- http.//petition.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:38 am

It's times like this that I'm glad that Bermuda is still a British Colony.
I've signed. Is Blair out of his mind?
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:17 am

How is Blair 'out of his mind?'
Has it been announced the team will be axed?
Has it even been a news story, across the TV and print media, that it is likely-which it would be in the UK?
Has this cropped up it seems every year since the early 1990's?
No, no and yes.

I know they do seek more commercial sponsorship, have done for years.

Did the notorious Daily Telegraph-notorious for bad defence reporting that is, run this?

Sure the MoD are finding ways to shave non front line spending-rightly-my fist post on this thread outlined one major way (totally misreported naturally), this is happening.
I actually know several people at the MoD, including in areas of budgetting. This is news to them.

By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
By all means sign the petition, it won't do any harm, me, I try to get a bit of perspective before ranting/blaming this person or that.

The whole point is to let the government know it is a bad idea before anyone in there starts getting carried away with it.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:50 am

The Red Arrows speak to the World and what they say is, ..."Great Britain still builds GREAT PLANES"

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Photo © Jim Groom



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Photo © Daniel Butcher - UK Airshow Review


And here is an example of the very positve side effect.

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Photo © Si Jones



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Photo © Andrew Morrell


The U.S. Navy uses a Boeing built version of the Hawk to train their carrier pilots.

[Edited 2007-03-03 00:00:41]
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:03 am

An Australian Air Force 76 Squadron ..."British Aerospace Hawk"

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Photo © Alex McCreath


I am thinking the Australians have seen the Red Arrows.

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Photo © Piotr Biskupski

 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 21):
I am thinking the Australians have seen the Red Arrows.

Sure have....

http://www.pbase.com/chrisg/image/31971241.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/chrisg/image/31971743.jpg

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:35 pm

That photo with the coat hangar in is pretty cool!
 
ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:35 am

A Canadian Air Force ..."British Aerospace Hawk"

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Photo © Geri Grof


I'm thinking Canada has seen ..."The Red Arrows"

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Photo © Dimitris - AirTeamImages


[Edited 2007-03-05 00:36:46]
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:51 am

Very nice pics.
On a side note, I was pleased that 3 years ago, despsite perhaps Treasury pressure and no doubt hard lobbying, the new generation of Hawk was picked for the RAF's new advanced trainer requirement.
At the time, many in the press expected the Macchi design to win it.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:03 am

Below is the astonishing list of countries that "The Red Arrows" have displayed in and the numbers represent the number of occasions.
Austria . . . . . . . . . 9
Australia . . . . . . . . . 3
Bahrain . . . . . . . . . 3
Bangladesh . . . . . . . . . 1
Belgium . . . . . . . . . 81
Brunei . . . . . . . . . 3
Canada . . . . . . . . . 17
Cyprus . . . . . . . . . 58
Czech Republic . . . . . . . 2
Denmark . . . . . . . . . 19
Egypt . . . . . . . . . 4
Eire . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Finland . . . . . . . . . 11
France . . . . . . . . . 62
Germany . . . . . . . . . 170
Gibraltar . . . . . . . . . 6
Greece . . . . . . . . . 4
Hungary . . . . . . . . . 1
Iceland . . . . . . . . . 2
Indonesia . . . . . . . . . 12
India . . . . . . . . . 5
Italy . . . . . . . . . 40
Jordan . . . . . . . . . 12
Libya . . . . . . . . . 1
Luxembourg . . . . . . . . . 2
Malaysia . . . . . . . . . 30
Malta . . . . . . . . . 21
Monaco . . . . . . . . . 2
Morocco . . . . . . . . . 1
Netherlands . . . . . . . . . 22
Norway . . . . . . . . . 7
Oman . . . . . . . . . 3
Pakistan . . . . . . . . . 3
Phillipines . . . . . . . . . 1
Poland . . . . . . . . . 4
Portugal . . . . . . . . . 3
Qatar . . . . . . . . . 3
Romania . . . . . . . . . 1
Russia . . . . . . . . . 2
Saudi Arabia . . . . . . . . . 4
Singapore . . . . . . . . . 8
Slovakia . . . . . . . . . 4
South Africa . . . . . . . . . 7
Spain . . . . . . . . . 6
Sweden . . . . . . . . . 15
Switzerland . . . . . . . . . 24
Thailand . . . . . . . . . 3
Turkey . . . . . . . . . 8
UAE . . . . . . . . . 22
UK - England . . . . . . . . 2751
UK - Scotland . . . . . . . . . 142
UK - N Ireland . . . . . . . . . 34
UK - Wales . . . . . . . . . 123
UK - Isle of Man . . . . . . . . 90
UK - Channel Islands . . . . . 86
USA . . . . . . . . . 35
Zimbabwe . . . . . . . . . 2

Total Countries . . . . . . . 52
Total Displays . . . . . . . 4004

[Edited 2007-03-06 22:06:55]
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:09 am

The petition to save The Red Arrows has so far received just over 50,000 signatures.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:57 am

An astonishing number of those countries listed above and where The Red Arrows have displayed, have bought British Aerospace Hawks for their own Air Force's. ...The photo's below say it all. ...A new in 2006 ...Royal Bahraini Air Force Hawk in formation with the "Reds" and by itself in close up.

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Photo © MarkStevens
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Photo © Robin Powney

 
ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:01 pm


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Photo © Roel reijne


Finland Air Force pilots train on Hawks:-

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Photo © Kai Krause
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Photo © Mikko Maliniemi

 
ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:48 am


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Photo © Rafael Finter


This BAE Hawk below is going to the Indian Air Force:-

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Photo © Ian Meadows

 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:14 am

If only more post war UK military aircraft had sold so well...

Hawk however, was designed and built without no major changes requested by the Air Staff, Hawkers, later BAe, were generally allowed to get on with the job.

We should be glad the Anglo-French Jaguar was built, not always highly favoured, often under-rated, but the development of the Adour engine for it provided the perfect powerplant for Hawk.
Otherwise the very successful, but far from new Viper turbojet, would liked have powered the trainer requirement the Hawk was built to.
It would have been by default, a more limited aircraft, with this smaller, more thirsty powerplant.

It also helped that the main role foreseen for what became Jaguar, as an advanced trainer, became rather less attractive as the aircraft 'grew' in development, with more emphasis on the single seater in the attack role, the twin seater becoming a bit too much aircraft for the training role, aside from conversion to Jaguar itself.
Still the requirement for a new trainer remained, so enter the Hawk...
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:14 am

I have seen the Red Arrows twice and I guess they would be more impressive if I had not seen the Blue Angels and the T-birds before. To me there is just no getting around the fact that they are flying those whimpy, underpowered small planes.

Same goes for the Snowbirds.
I can drive faster than you
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 32):
I have seen the Red Arrows twice and I guess they would be more impressive if I had not seen the Blue Angels and the T-birds before. To me there is just no getting around the fact that they are flying those whimpy, underpowered small planes.

Same goes for the Snowbirds.

To disagree, the Snowbirds are one of the best formation flying teams out there. The Tutor looks amazing in formation (with the strait wing). They fly with 9 planes vs the 6 of the Thunderbirds and Blue Angles. Do NOT get me wrong I have seen the TB and BA and feel they are EXCELLENT, however after seeing countless Snowbird performances, I feel that the Snowbirds fly much tighter then the other teams. (Have not seen the Red Arrows). I understand that for those non-aviation people the speed, power and sound of the F-18s or the F-16 gets their attention better, but from a pilots prospective (low formation experience (less then 50 flights)), the precision of the snowbirds and the stuff they do in formation, is just amazing. Also while you man consider me to be biased (look at my flag), at Oshkosh 2005 I was talking with the Air National Guard Pitts Special pilot, when I mentioned that I was going to be applying to the CF for pilot etc, he said to try and get on the Snowbirds because they are the best, when asking for clarification, I asked your telling me the Snowbirds are better then your guy's formation teams, he said and I quote "With out a doubt" and then went on to saying that they fly tighter, more air planes etc. This was coming from a US Military pilot. But at last this is my opinion and some people like that speed/power/sound over the slower but yet more grace-full flying of the snowbirds.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:15 am

You make some great points and I agree on many things. Argument well made.
I can drive faster than you
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:06 pm

In July 1978 when I was 22 years old. …Two wealthy men, both of whom I happened to be teaching to fly, asked me to fly them from Leeds to Biggin Hill and as an expeditious way of getting to the British Formula 1 Grand Prix being held close by at Brands Hatch. Well after our landing at Biggin Hill in the actual aircraft seen here:-

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Photo © Paul Chandler


... they hired a JetRanger helicopter to fly us the remaining few miles into the famous car racing circuit.
Personally I had always been quite interested in Formula I racing, …three times World Champion Driver Niki Lauda was one of my heroes and I also much admired the famously black and gold Lotus cars of the John Player Special team. And so like my two friends I anticipated an exciting afternoon.

We found a good spot to watch the race on a raised grassy bank nearby the last bend before the final straight and we could look down towards the pit’s, which seemed to be the focal point of a natural amphitheatre formed by higher terrain that surrounds the Brands Hatch Circuit. Many tens of thousands of people occupied every square inch of ground that had a view of the track waiting to see one of the biggest motor sport events in the World.
I had often watched Formula 1 racing on television but it was my first attendance at a circuit and so I didn’t really know what to expect and I was pleasantly surprised when it transpired that the Red Arrows were going to open the show. I had only seen them once before and about seven years earlier.

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Photo © Ray Pettit


Now perhaps you are thinking I am going to say that I remember a spectacular display of nine red Folland Gnats flying formation in perfect Diamond Nine’s. Well I would like to be able to, but I cannot honestly say that I remember as much. After all it was twenty nine years ago and perhaps because in more recent times I have seen The Red Arrows fly those perfect formations again and in their British Aerospace Hawks. …Neither do I recall who won the Formula 1 race and that in the end had seemed to be little more than a parade of cars. In fact I have really only retained a single image in my mind from the race and of those Black and Gold Lotus cars driving towards me through the bend to my right.

…”And yet, there is plenty of red paint still in my minds eye” and I can tell you beyond any shadow of doubt that for me at least, …“The Red Arrows stole that show” …What I remember very well is that we were stood virtually on the same axis that their two singletons known as the “Synchro Pair” used to fly their part of the display …“and did those two guys ever take it to the crowd” …I felt like I was in a space age Roman amphitheatre as those two red jets flew repeated crossovers at what looked to me like twenty feet or less above the pit’s. Combined with their very high apparent speed and rate of closure it was exhilarating beyond belief! …Each time one of the jets came diving down just above our heads we could simultaneously see the other red jet diving towards us and over the heads of the crowd on the far end of the straight. As they met each other almost head on over the pits “we were looking down on them” and the backdrop consisted almost entirely of those thousands of human beings also looking down on them from the banks across from us. Of course having crossed, each pilot then had to fly back up over the crowd’s heads at his respective end of the straight to get out of that natural amphitheatre.

Well anyway I have always thought that those two young RAF pilots must have given plenty of consideration beforehand to being the opening act (some might say the sideshow) at the biggest show in town and that happened to be playing a game that was not their own. …Perhaps they very deliberately went out to put on the most breathtaking performance to send out a message. …And I think that message would have been – “forget your racing cars” …Look at us, “we have the gift of angels”.

It remains the greatest and most exciting spectacle that I have ever witnessed. For me The Red Arrows had owned the 1978 British Formula 1 Grand Prix even before the race starters flag went down.

Folland Gnats - see below, were the aircraft flown by the Red Arrows before they aquired their Hawks.

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Photo © Neil Dunridge - AirTeamImages
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Photo © Mark Wright

 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 35):
either do I recall who won the Formula 1 race and that in the end had seemed to be little more than a parade of cars.

Hey, Ferrypilot, the result would have fitted in this thread, Carlos Reutemann in a "RED" Ferrari won with Niki Lauda and John Watson in "RED" Brabham Alfas 2nd & 3rd

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 36):
with Niki Lauda and John Watson in "RED" Brabham Alfas 2nd & 3rd


...Hmm, interesting now you have got me to thinking that those drivers were probably closer than anybody else to the "Reds" ...Perhaps when Niki Lauda saw those jets go by at twice his best speed that is when he started thinking about becoming an aviator.

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Photo © Phil Cooke - FlightLineImages
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Photo © Phil Cooke - FlightLineImages



[Quote ...www.baesystems.com] On behalf of BAE Systems, Hawk sales director Mike Rudd said, The BAE Systems Hawk and the Red Arrows are inextricably linked and synonymous with excellence. As India is one of many customers to have selected Hawk to meet its advanced jet training requirements, it is totally appropriate for the Red Arrows to display the unique characteristics of the worlds most successful fast jet trainer. With the lowest acquisition and operating costs of all aircraft in its class, and the cutting edge technology of its on-board systems and supporting ground based training environment, Hawk is ideally suited for next generation fighter training.[Quote]

...Clearly the "Reds" help generate sales of the Hawk.
 
777
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 37):
...Clearly the "Reds" help generate sales of the Hawk.

Yes, in the same way the Frecce Tricolori helped in the past the sales of the MB-339 and, in the future, those ones related to the new M-346...


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j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:46 am

I'm pretty sure it them that performed at Dulles in 1974(?) when they had that big travel expo there, which was kinda like a World's Fair, as it was HUGE and lasted for, I think, two weeks or more...they did one thing that I still remember (ok, vaguely, but still...after 33 yrs)...as I recall, they came from various directions, met somewhat at common center, formed a ring and climbed up and then came back down in various directions...somewhat like an umbrella...I'd not seen anything like it before or since....
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
GDB
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:23 am

Great story Ferrypilot, I myself only saw the Red's once on Gnats, at the Air Tattoo in 1979, their last season on the type.

20 years later though, by default, I had a small link with the team.
Since working in the BA Concorde Engineering operation, which had a longstanding link with the team, first with BAC, then within BA service, as my friend Gordon Roxburgh's superb website recounts;
www.concordesst.com/history/reds/reds.html

A signed photo of the team was pride of place in our crewroom.

The final time was more immediate, for the 2002 Golden Jubilee, with the prepararion of the aircraft for the flypast.
(Someone in BA asked us whether decals could be fitted underwing, saying, 'God Save The Queen' or similar, we pointed out that we'd not risk one coming free and entering an engine).
I was on shift, in the morning that day, then once off shift, I watched G-BOAD go from the carpark off the A4 Bath Road, adjacent to the Northern runway-home is just a few hundred yards from there, then put the TV on, set the VCR, and watch this spectacular event.
Again, Gordon's website did this event justice;
www.concordesst.com/flypast.html

Here's how I saw the build up and the event on here, is it really nearly 5 years ago?
www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/818742/

777, I saw the Italian AF team in 1987, I thought them daring and spectacular, sadly, this was weeks before the terrible accident in Germany, much as I think the Red Arrows are the best all round team in the world, I was hugely impressed with the Italians and their display remains strong in my memory.
 
ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 40):
Great story Ferrypilot, I myself only saw the Red's once on Gnats, at the Air Tattoo in 1979, their last season on the type.

Thanks for your kind comment on my story GDB, ...and quoting you again below from an archived thread. ...I really wish I had seen the Queens Golden Jubilee celebration to which you refer. And I think it is a crying shame that Concorde flies no more.

[Quote GDB] I saw G-BOAD depart, (up like a rocket, 5 crew and 65 tons of fuel), from LHR.
OAD had small dayglo strips, for aiding formation flying, above windows half way down the aircraft, plus on the rear doors.
A spectacular end to a great flypast, on an incredible day, as the Red Arrows and G-BOAD flew over Buckingham Palace, with OAD pulling up over a crowd estimated at a million.
At 1500 ft, pretty loud too.[Quote]

[Edited 2007-04-01 01:55:51]
 
ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:14 am

A sight to make British hearts swell with pride :-

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ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:50 am

These guys are clearly intent on producing synchronised precision in their every single action, as evidenced by this photo of the gear in transit on both aircraft. ...All six wheels are in matching positions.

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ferrypilot
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:08 am

Good news for The Red Arrows.  Smile

----- Original Message -----
From: 10 Downing Street
To: e-petition signatories
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:07 AM
Subject: E-petition: response from the Prime Minister


E-petition: response from the Prime Minister
The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "continue funding for the Royal Air Force Aerobatics Team - The Red Arrows" is on-going. This is a response in advance of the closing date from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for signing the petition on the No.10 website calling for the maintenance of the Red Arrows. It is a sign of the place they hold in the national affections that so many people have joined you in signing it - one of the highest numbers since the e-petition service began. That's why I wanted to reply personally. It's also why I am replying before the petition officially closes, in order to reassure people who are clearly concerned.

I am pleased to be able to give you good news. There are no plans to change the funding for the Red Arrows, let alone to disband them.

It is important, of course, that the MOD looks at the full range of its spending plans as part of its routine financial planning, to ensure that taxpayers' money is spent where our Armed Forces most need it. Obviously it is this review which prompted fears that the Red Arrows might be scrapped.

However, like you, the Government recognises just what an important role the Red Arrows play in our national life. As the world's premier aerobatic team, they have thrilled millions of spectators over many years. I was lucky enough to see their extraordinary skills myself only last year at the Farnborough Air Show.

More importantly, the Red Arrows have maintained public support for the Royal Air Force, encouraged recruitment, acted as ambassadors for Britain in the world and promoted British industry for many years. So I am pleased to assure you that this government fully intends to keep the Red Arrows flying.

Thank you for signing this petition, and I hope you get a chance to see the Red Arrows yourself soon.

Yours sincerely,
Tony Blair
 
chksix
Posts: 336
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:10 am

Yeah!



 bigthumbsup 
The conveyor belt plane will fly
 
GDB
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RE: Save The Red Arrows

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:22 am

Thanks for saving me the hassle of linking this, from a BBC website report, Ferrypilot.
 
ferrypilot
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: Save The Red Arrows

Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

"My pleasure GDB"

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