SuseJ772
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Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:10 am

This might be a Civ/Av conversation but I trust the sources in Tech/Ops more

What is the US Air Force's policy on flying into air force bases directly on private aircraft. I have a friend who will be starting her training this summer to become a Jag and she will be based at MXF. The nearest airport is 1A9 (which is about 13 miles away). 1A9 will obviously do, but there is nothing like flying right to where you want to be so I figured I'd ask. I noticed at Airnav.com it says the airport is "Private. Permission Required to Land." So I guess my real question is, how easy/likely is it to get permission to land?

I will be starting my PPL training within the next month, so I figured PDK-MXF/1A9 will be a pretty nice way to build hours this summer (That and of course PDK-HXD ).

[Edited 2007-03-14 21:11:41]
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KELPkid
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:24 am

Well, most military bases have an aero club on the field...so I'd imagine if she does it through the base aero club, she'll be all right.

In most instances, if you are using a non-aero club aircraft, you need prior permission/approval from the base commander (who would, naturally, want you to have a good reason to be flying a civilian aircraft into a military field...  Wink ).
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SuseJ772
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
so I'd imagine if she does it through the base aero club, she'll be all right.

Ahh I miscommunicated. She isn't the one learning to fly. I will be the one learning to fly (at PDK). But I want to be able to visit her at MXF, so it wouldn't be an areo club aircraft, it would be one from a flight school at PDK.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
who would, naturally, want you to have a good reason to be flying a civilian aircraft into a military field

Is that common? Or pretty far fetched? My reason would be a.) visit a friend based there, and b.) to build hours. Is that good enough, or are do they only grant permission to people who have legitimate US-Government related business purposes.
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airtran737
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Thread starter):
What is the US Air Force's policy on flying into air force bases directly on private aircraft. I have a friend who will be starting her training this summer to become a Jag and she will be based at MXF. The nearest airport is 1A9 (which is about 13 miles away). 1A9 will obviously do, but there is nothing like flying right to where you want to be so I figured I'd ask. I noticed at Airnav.com it says the airport is "Private. Permission Required to Land." So I guess my real question is, how easy/likely is it to get permission to land?

I will be starting my PPL training within the next month, so I figured PDK-MXF/1A9 will be a pretty nice way to build hours this summer (That and of course PDK-HXD ).

I don't think you're going to get to far, Base Ops only gives out PPR's to aircraft that have legitimate business at the airfield. You would also need to have a Civil Landing Permit, and I highly doubt that your club has one. Your best option is to try to get a hold of someone in Base Ops and see what they say. I set up PPR's everyday for my airline, and sometimes they are hard for us to get. Good luck.
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Mir
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:46 am

I've done practice instrument approaches to military bases, but they had a strict policy that the wheels were never to touch the ground.

You can ask (don't call them up the day of and say "hey, I'd like to land", plan it out in advance and possibly get her to do it for you so it has more credibility), but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they say no. Generally they want a better reason than a vist or hour-building. But you never know.

-Mir
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KELPkid
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 2):
Is that common? Or pretty far fetched? My reason would be a.) visit a friend based there, and b.) to build hours. Is that good enough, or are do they only grant permission to people who have legitimate US-Government related business purposes.

Well, it never hurts to ask...although the answer will probably be "no."  Smile I'd imagine that, if you were, for example, a Lockheed Martin contractor and had to frequently visit the field as part of your job, and happened to own your own plane, you'd probably be able to secure the appropriate permissions...

Maybe you could hire on at the base as a civilian contractor  Wink
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SuseJ772
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Well, it never hurts to ask...although the answer will probably be "no."

Yeah that is kind of what I figured. Ohh well, figured I'd give it a try. 1A9 will suffice.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
plan it out in advance and possibly get her to do it for you so it has more credibility)

She hasn't gotten there yet, and I am sure she will be having a huge learning curve (given this is her first time in the military), but once she gets there and gets settled, I might see if she can figure something out. Until then, I'll just plan on 1A9.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
I've done practice instrument approaches to military bases, but they had a strict policy that the wheels were never to touch the ground.

Just out of curiosity. What would the purpose of that be? Were there no other Instrument Approaches in the area? I would think part of the reason AF bases wouldn't want people landing is because they don't want people in their airspace, but if you were doing a non-touch-touch-and-go, like you described, you would still obviously be very much in their airspace. You have me intrigued.
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ftrguy
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:57 am

SuseJ772,
I hate to be blunt, but they are pretty much going to laugh at you for even asking. You can't get on a military base without a DOD ID. There's no way they're going to let Joe Civilian land his plane there just because he wants to visit his girlfriend. Unless you are a serious someone with some serious credentials, I wouldn't even waste your money on the phone call. I'm a military pilot and I can't even land a civilian plane that I've rented. However, as stated above you can do approaches without touching down. Just try to do it when the airfield is slow, like on the weekend and the controllers will be more receptive.

Good luck with your PPL. Have you thought about RYY for your training? I got mine there and it would probably be less expensive and less crowded. Just my two cents...

Ftrguy
 
SuseJ772
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting Ftrguy (Reply 7):
I hate to be blunt, but they are pretty much going to laugh at you for even asking. You can't get on a military base without a DOD ID.

That's why I asked here before tried anything else. I had no clue if it was acceptable or not. I know sometimes Air Forces (or Air National Guards) share runways with public airports (i.e. FWA, FRA, etc...) so I thought bases might be open to private aviation? Like I said, I had no clue. Thanks for the help.

Quoting Ftrguy (Reply 7):

Good luck with your PPL. Have you thought about RYY for your training? I got mine there and it would probably be less expensive and less crowded. Just my two cents...

Thanks for the help with that. I had thought of RYY and would totally be willing to consider it more. Do you have a flight school you recommend? I like less expensive. I don't necessarily like less crowded because that is sort of why I was going with training here in ATL (instead of like Athens). I figured if I could fly in ATL air traffic, I could fly anywhere. Is RYY in controlled airspace? I took at a look at the charts at SkyVector and it looks like it is, but I am by no means an expert on the charts yet.
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ftrguy
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:15 am

Yes, RYY is Controlled Airspace (Class D). I started flying there 14 years ago before they had a tower. It was busy then, and its very busy now, but probably not as busy as PDK. I did all my training at Northside Aviation. I think that they've worked some drug deal with Aero Atlanta to use Northside's spaces and airplanes, but Aero Atlanta CFI's. Its been years since I've flown there so I'm not up to date. When I was flying there, they were the cheapest. I flew over at PDK once and it was considerably more expensive.

If anything else, check this out and it might convince you. Just scroll down to Kennesaw, GA.

http://www.fbohotties.com/states/ga.html
 
covert
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
most military bases have an aero club on the field.

MOST military bases in the U.S. these days DO NOT have Aero Clubs anymore due to various reasons, mostly budget cuts and lack of general interest/strong individuals willing to prevent their closure.
none
 
SuseJ772
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Covert (Reply 10):
MOST military bases in the U.S. these days DO NOT have Aero Clubs anymore due to various reasons, mostly budget cuts and lack of general interest/strong individuals willing to prevent their closure.

While I don't know about most, MXF does have an aero-club. But I think as Ftrguy's point makes pretty clear, it isn't really going to make a difference in this case.
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L-188
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
I don't think you're going to get to far, Base Ops only gives out PPR's to aircraft that have legitimate business at the airfield. You would also need to have a Civil Landing Permit, and I highly doubt that your club has one. Your best option is to try to get a hold of someone in Base Ops and see what they say. I set up PPR's everyday for my airline, and sometimes they are hard for us to get. Good luck.

I have to agree with you on that.

I dealt with getting short notice PPR's for my airline back when I was dispatching medivac flights (We had a VA flight contract-lots of base hospital-base hospital) flights. There are a few hoops to jump through just to get permision to be a DOD contractor, let alone get clearance to conduct operations.
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ShyFlyer
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:18 am

From my Airport/Facility Directory:

Quote:
US Army, Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard fields are open to civil flyers only in emergency or with prior permission.

Army installations, prior permission is required from the Commanding Officer of the installation.

For Air Force installations, prior permission should be requested at least 30 days prior to the first intended landing from either Headquarters USAF (PRPOC) or the Commander of the installation concerned (who has authority to approve landing rights for certain categories of civil aircraft). For use of more than one Air Force installation, requests should be forwarded direct to HQ USAF (PRPOC), Washington, DC 20330. Use of USAF installations must be specifically justified.

For Navy and Marine Corps installations prior permission should be requested at least 30 days prior to the first intended landing. An Aviation Facility License must be approved and executed by the Navy prior to any landing by civil aircraft. Forms and further information may be obtained from the nearest US Navy or Marine Corps aviation activity.

For Coast Guard fields prior permission should be requested from the Commandant, US Coast Guard via the Commanding Officer of the field.

When instrument approaches are conducted by civil aircraft at military airports, they shall be conducted in accordance with the procedures and minimums approved by the military agency having jurisdiction over the airport.

In other words, it ain't worth the hassle.
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checksixx
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 6):
Just out of curiosity. What would the purpose of that be? Were there no other Instrument Approaches in the area? I would think part of the reason AF bases wouldn't want people landing is because they don't want people in their airspace, but if you were doing a non-touch-touch-and-go, like you described, you would still obviously be very much in their airspace. You have me intrigued.

Because getting cleared to shoot the approach is not the same as getting clearance to land. Thats called an "Unauthorized Aircraft Landing", where, even if you lifted back off, you may be ordered to land immediately. Upon landing you'd be taken into custody by the SP's. Doesn't happen often around here though, Langley is a busy airfield. We do have an aeroclub, in fact when I left, they were just getting some brand new planes.
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:59 pm

Years ago I was planning my trip to the Tyndall AFB, FL, airshow. I called the base ahead of time and asked if there was anyway that they'd let me fly my rented 172 in for the show. The answer was a very flat NO. No way, no how. Even though it was airshow day and I would have arrived before they closed the airspace and handed it over to the Air Boss.
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zanl188
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RE: Flying Into Air Force Bases

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 15):
Years ago I was planning my trip to the Tyndall AFB, FL, airshow. I called the base ahead of time and asked if there was anyway that they'd let me fly my rented 172 in for the show.

I'm curious -- had you been given permission to land where would you have parked and what would you have done for fuel?
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