bhxdtw
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Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:58 pm

Hi guys...

just was wondering,

how many foreign countries have air bases in the USA ??
Also, the same question goes to how many countries does the US have air bases in ??

Joe

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TriStar500
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:22 pm

For the Luftwaffe:

Holloman AFB/ NM: Fliegerisches Ausbildungszentrum der Luftwaffe with 25 Tornado
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Lurch
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:50 pm

The RAF is at Nellis and a few other Places with Tornados Typhoons and Lots of Transport Flights with VC-10s and Tristars!
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:26 am

I dont think any foreign air force has a base in the US in the same sense that we do in the rest of the world. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing the above mentioned units are primarily training ones. I dont know about the RAF @ Nellis, but I've always been under the impression that the Luftwaffe at Holloman was there to have the USAF train their F-4 pilots (or at least thats why it was created).
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KevinSmith
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 3):

 checkmark 

Correct. There are no foreign bases in the US. There are US bases that have foreign squadrons on station. The Germans at Holloman I think are the biggest example of such. I'm not sure if the Brits have anything comparable. Here at NAS Pensacola we have the 2nd German Air Force Squadron for example. The Germans also have some guys at Sheppard, AFB. I've also seen Canadians and Italians going through pilot training at Vance Air Force Base.

One caviot could be NORAD considering it is a joint US/Canadian operation.
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bhxdtw
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:54 am

So is this because the US dont allow foreigners on their soil as such..
I mean... for instance... and this is purely hypothetical.. what would the US say if Russia or Japan wanted to have a base on US soil (inc Alaska, Hawaii and Guam... not including Iraq...haha Just joking)
Ok maybe those 2 examples are a bit extreme considering the past history the US has with those 2 nations, but what about Spain for instance or Australia ?

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FlyUSCG
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
So is this because the US dont allow foreigners on their soil as such..

I dont think any other country on the globe actually NEEDS to have bases overseas the way we do. We are the world-power and as such have interests and assets all over the world that we need to protect. These are often in countries that aren't capable of protecting them or protecting them as well as we would like. Other countries don't need to fear that in the U.S. Hopefully that makes sense, I'm even having trouble trying to put it into words, haha. And of course, this is just my opinion and I welcome any corrections or confirmations.
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N911ME
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:42 am

Are the RAF squadrons actually based at Nellis, or are they just on TDY for Red Flags? And, does the second Luftwaffe squadron at Pensacola actually have German aircraft based there, or is it just personnel for training?

I know out at Phoenix, the USAF/AZ ANG trains foreign F-16 pilots - Singapore and someone else I believe. Very cool to see everyone helping out one another.
 
KevinSmith
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting N911ME (Reply 7):
Luftwaffe squadron at Pensacola actually have German aircraft based there, or is it just personnel for training?

Personnel for training. I have a Luftwaffe 1st Lt, in my API class. All German navigators go here, NAS Pensacola, for training.

I forgot to mention that the German's have a squadron in D.C. I think it is either at Dulles or Andrews AFB, I'm not sure. They fly the C-160.
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Venus6971
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:24 am

There are alot of foreign students and instructor pilots at Sheppard AFB TX, they do primary flight training for much of NATO in T-38's and T-37's. Don't know if NATO is going to buy in with the new T-6. When I talk with the German Instructor pilots thay have been in Texas so long they don't have an accent any more and you can almost here that Texas twang Y'all come out of their mouths.
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ptrjong
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):

Some other nations do have military bases in foreign countries - France has Mirages in Djibouti, for example - but not in the USA. You have summed up well why that is I think. Russia or China might like to have an airfield on US soil, but they know that since their interests are a little different, the US will say no.

The Netherlands AF used to have some of its F-16s in Tucson for training, but they were painted in US markings. Like Germany, Singapore also has some aircraft in the US for training I think, but that doesn't make their bases foreign.

Peter Smile
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STT757
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:09 am

The Luftwaffe also has a station at Dulles Airport outside Washington DC, I remember in the '80s seeing Luftwaffe aircraft lined up on the ramp.

I think NATO, Australian or Japanese Air Forces operating a base in the US is a great idea. Especially in light of the recent BRAC closures, there are some great facilities in the US that have been lost due to BRAC over the last 20 years. For the local community and to keep these airfields active military facilities in case they are needed at a later date is worth the investment.

One of the latest victims of BRAC is Brunswick NAS Maine, right now it's a Navy P-3 base. In the next few years it will close, the RAF, Royal Navy and other NATO Air Forces could set up a Joint base at Brunswick NAS, it's a good location adjacent to the North Atlantic and about half way between Europe and the Caribbean, Latin America and Nellis AFB.

Some other Air fields that could benefit from a NATO or other Allied presence..

Cecil Field Jacksonville Florida.
Barbers Point, Hawaii
George AFB California
Mather AFB California
Williams Airport, Arizona
McClellan AFB, California
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atmx2000
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
Ok maybe those 2 examples are a bit extreme considering the past history the US has with those 2 nations, but what about Spain for instance or Australia ?

So are they going to assist us in our defense against Mexico and Canada?  Wink

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
I think NATO, Australian or Japanese Air Forces operating a base in the US is a great idea.

Why would they want to spend the money and position enough assets here to have a base? What neighbor of the US presents a credible threat to them?
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bhxdtw
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
Ok maybe those 2 examples are a bit extreme considering the past history the US has with those 2 nations, but what about Spain for instance or Australia ?

So are they going to assist us in our defense against Mexico and Canada?

hahahaha...maybe !!... you ever see the film Canadian Bacon !? hahaha..

I personally think that the US does not want any foreign military presence on its territory in the unlikely but possible event of a further world war..
I know that sounds daft... but if you think of it... the US are very protective and very strong... should the scary event happen where its enemies are closer to home ... OR ... are enemies that were traditional allies.. then having foreign air bases on its territoy could leave them vulnerable .??
ok... if that made any sense then great... but I do hope you get my jist !! hahaha

Joe

By the way any idea if anyone knows who has airbases in England ? I know the Canadians do... I think... or they have a training camp in wales (Brecon, I think) and of course the US.
 
CV990A
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 8):
I forgot to mention that the German's have a squadron in D.C. I think it is either at Dulles or Andrews AFB

The Luftwaffe have a small presence at IAD- if you look closely at the signs as you get to IAD on the Dulles Toll Road, there is a single line on one of them that says 'German Installation' or something similar, and there usually is at least one Transall parked over by the Signature Ramp.
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P3Orion
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
One of the latest victims of BRAC is Brunswick NAS Maine, right now it's a Navy P-3 base. In the next few years it will close, the RAF, Royal Navy and other NATO Air Forces could set up a Joint base at Brunswick NAS, it's a good location adjacent to the North Atlantic and about half way between Europe and the Caribbean, Latin America and Nellis AFB.

When I was worked at NHZ ATCT/TRACON we routinely had RAF Nimrods, Canadian P3's, Dutch P3's and Norwegian P3's. In fact, the ASWOC (Anti Submarine Warfare Operations Center) flew the NATO flag. It is a shame Brunswick is closing. They recently upgraded base housing. Built new hangers to accommodate the Boeing 737; which is replacing the P3. And, built a new Tower/TRACON equipped with the latest ATC equipment. It was a wonderful place to be stationed and I have many fond memories.
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474218
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
Some other Air fields that could benefit from a NATO or other Allied presence..

George AFB California

George AFB was closed about 14 years ago.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
I personally think that the US does not want any foreign military presence on its territory in the unlikely but possible event of a further world war..

The US has had a continuous large foreign military pressence on it's soil. TDY technically, but most of these units have been operting in the US for a very long time. If the US was afraid of foreign military pressence none of these units would be operating.
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Stealthz
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
Australian ..... Air Forces operating a base in the US is a great idea.

Hell, we don't even have enough equipment or people for the bases we have here.. and are doing our own form of BRAC.

Hey, here is an idea, maybe the US would agree to sell Raptors to the RAAF if we promised not to take them out of the country!!!

Better keep that quiet.. the fighter jocks currently running the RAAF would likely go for that idea!!!

Cheers
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ATCGOD
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 3):
I dont know about the RAF @ Nellis, but I've always been under the impression that the Luftwaffe at Holloman was there to have the USAF train their F-4 pilots (or at least thats why it was created).

I believe they use the White Sands Missile Range as a desert warfare training environment now. All the F-4's are gone from Holloman now...except the QF-4's.
 
Gunships
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 16):
George AFB was closed about 14 years ago.

Mather and McClellan have also been closed for several years (as AFB's).
 
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STT757
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 15):
They recently upgraded base housing. Built new hangers to accommodate the Boeing 737; which is replacing the P3. And, built a new Tower/TRACON equipped with the latest ATC equipment. It was a wonderful place to be stationed and I have many fond memories

To me it makes more sense to base anti-Submarine and surface ship aircraft in Maine rather than Jacksonville Florida, Maine is closer to the North Atlantic shipping routes and it's also closer to Europe, the Mediterranean, Gulf etc.. Same with the West Coast, it makes more sense to base Patrol aircraft at Whidbey Island rather than down at North Island.

Politics said close Maine and keep Jacksonville open.

It's shame, after Brunswick NAS closes that leaves only one active Duty Air field (of any service) in the Northeastern US. McGuire AFB New Jersey. The Northeast has been hit hard by BRAC, the largest Military bases in the Northeast are now New London/Groton Naval Base, McGuire Air Force Base, Fort Drum.

I'm really glad they were able to save New London/Groton from the '05 BRAC, the Patrol squadrons might be leaving but at least the Attack Submarine Squadrons will still be in the Northeast adjacent to the North Atlantic Shipping channels. They wanted to move the Subs to Georgia, which makes as much sense as moving the Patrol Squadrons to Florida.

They must really be worried about the Bahamas Military.
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P3Orion
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
They must really be worried about the Bahamas Military.

I think we do need to worry about the Chinese military. It is no secret they desire a blue water navy and when that happens the North Atlantic will not be as "open" as it currently is.
I will have a Manhattan.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 22):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
They must really be worried about the Bahamas Military.

I think we do need to worry about the Chinese military. It is no secret they desire a blue water navy and when that happens the North Atlantic will not be as "open" as it currently is.

Whats a Blue water navy ?
I thought the Chinese had a navy ?... and why would we see the chinese in the north atlantic ??
I guess... they could go right under the pole cap and find there way into the north atlantic that way ... but why ?

Joe
 
Dougloid
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 23):
I thought the Chinese had a navy ?... and why would we see the chinese in the north atlantic ??
I guess... they could go right under the pole cap and find there way into the north atlantic that way ... but why ?

From Casablanca.

Bogey: I came here for the waters.
Louie: But Casablanca is in the middle of a desert.
Bogey: I was misinformed.


 Wink
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PADSpot
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 8):
I forgot to mention that the German's have a squadron in D.C. I think it is either at Dulles or Andrews AFB, I'm not sure. They fly the C-160.

It's a logistical base. There are some people permanently stationed there, but usually no airplanes ... It serves as distribution center for shipments from Germany to German installations in North-America. It is regularly served by at least one weekly A310MRTT. From there shipments are distributed by civil carriers and sometimes C-160s. The A310 usually proceeds further to Holloman or El Paso and is refueled again at IAD on her way back.

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):
These are often in countries that aren't capable of protecting them or protecting them as well as we would like.

Interesting view on the matter. I would not go as far as to assume US foreign policy to have any altruistic motivation ... it is US interests that count, not the ability of some country to defend itself. Disguising its real motives with some arbitrary protective intention is what ALMOST ANY super-power has done since the Roman Empire. It's not particularly innovative ...

[Edited 2007-03-31 14:21:30]
 
cannibalz3
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:50 am

I hear rumours of a Dutch F-16 base on some airfield out in the middle of nowhere, Ohio. Can anyone confirm this?
 
jwenting
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting N911ME (Reply 7):
And, does the second Luftwaffe squadron at Pensacola actually have German aircraft based there, or is it just personnel for training?

There are German Tornadoes in German markings stationed there (or at least there were, they may have been removed).
The Germans contracted the USAF to provide training facilities, the Luftwaffe provides aircraft and crew.
The aircraft are I think under US command while stationed in the US (but probably with provisions that they cannot be deployed outside the US).

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 25):
it is US interests that count, not the ability of some country to defend itself.

Those two may often overlap, as it is often in the best interest of the US for a country to remain independent from a stronger neighbour who don't like the US...
The enemy of my enemy is my friend (or at least associate) after all.
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KevinSmith
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 27):
(or at least there were, they may have been removed).

I think they have been removed. I reported In June of 06 and haven't seen them.
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:42 am

We meddle in other nations affairs, that is why we are there. We do not allow other nations to come on our soil and meddle in our affairs, if they do, it is through telecommunications, most of that is criticisim.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
Tancrede
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):
I dont think any other country on the globe actually NEEDS to have bases overseas the way we do. We are the world-power and as such have interests and assets all over the world that we need to protect.

That is a perfect summary of the definition of imperialism. Because of that kind of opinion, I still applause De Gaulle's decision in 1966 to through away Americans from the French soil.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:15 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 30):

That is a perfect summary of the definition of imperialism. Because of that kind of opinion, I still applause De Gaulle's decision in 1966 to through away Americans from the French soil.

Even though I sympathize with his decision, one must admit that de Gaulle did that after France became a nuclear power itself and didn't strategically NEED the US anymore. That is the definition of opportunism - a word that has a negative connotation in my language, although not in English. On the other hand you're right, under de Gaulle's aegis France ended (or lost?) its status as an imperial power. Most of its colonies became independent and the European idea gained momentum (although de Gaulle himself was not a friend of it). But maybe that is the definition of a great man: To be able to subordinate your inner temptation to what you conceive right on the long term.
 
Tancrede
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 31):
Even though I sympathize with his decision, one must admit that de Gaulle did that after France became a nuclear power itself and didn't strategically NEED the US anymore. That is the definition of opportunism - a word that has a negative connotation in my language, although not in English. On the other hand you're right, under de Gaulle's aegis France ended (or lost?) its status as an imperial power. Most of its colonies became independent and the European idea gained momentum (although de Gaulle himself was not a friend of it). But maybe that is the definition of a great man: To be able to subordinate your inner temptation to what you conceive right on the long term.

I don't know how sarcastic you are in your comments, but I will say that you are entirely right. That is correct that France waited until it had the nuclear weapons, to get ride of the Americans but I would not call it opportunism but realpolitik. That is a very familiar style in world politics. About the colonies (even if it was not the subject of this thread), we could not have been able to sustained them very long time anymore, too expensive. The move of decolonization was made in the right time, as it was for most other Empires.
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 30):
I still applause De Gaulle's decision in 1966 to through away Americans from the French soil.

You just as willing to "throw away" all those Americans buried at Normandy too?
Go Trojans! Fight On!
 
PADSpot
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RE: Foreign Air Bases In The USA

Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting Tancrede (Reply 32):
too expensive

Lol .... Opportunism??? Great Comment. Who is sarcastic here?  Smile

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