TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Fri May 04, 2007 12:11 pm

I'm posting this in Mil/Space as while the plane is GA, the object it struck was military. Plus who cares about GA crashes in Civil Av? Move it f you need to mods..

That being said...

http://www.topix.com/city/cudjoe-key-fl
and
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?c...5842a9-a511-43ca-a2f0-ca2332cdc21e

Quote:
It appeared the Cessna 182 (file photo of type, above) hit a cable tethering a large government radar surveillance blimp, said police. The cable was not sliced and the blimp does not appear to be damaged, according to Monroe County sheriff's spokeswoman Becky Herrin.

The site has a camera trained on the blimp and the camera captured the crash. The plane reportedly hit the cable about halfway between the ground and the blimp itself, reported the Associated Press

And the sectional from above article:
http://www.aero-news.net/FullsizeIma...5f8054-1eea-485c-a15a-83c5385dacfe

Notice that strange radial in the upper right cornerof the sectional? That is where the blimp is. What I don't get is how these morons could hit that wire when there is so much information warning them about it?
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zanl188
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Fri May 04, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
What I don't get is how these morons could hit that wire when there is so much information warning them about it?

It's easy if you don't have a current sectional or if you have one and don't use it. An all too common occurence with GA pilots.

Is the blimp lit at all?.

The pilots luck/karma must have been really bad to inadvertently find that, relatively, tiny bit of cable in all that airspace and hit it in such a way that he couldn't recover.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Fri May 04, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
It's easy if you don't have a current sectional

It's been there for many years.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
or if you have one and don't use it.

Then that's the pilots irresponsibility.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 12:37 am

It probably is lit at night, but during the day if you aren't paying attention you probably won't see the cable until its to late.
 
f4wso
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
Is the blimp lit at all?.

Correct term would be "aerostat". Blimp indicates a piloted vehicle.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
It's easy if you don't have a current sectional



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 2):
It's been there for many years.

.
.
.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
hit it in such a way that he couldn't recover.

Given the weight of the tethered vehicle involved, quite the opposite is true. You'd be lucky to hit it in such a manner that you could fly away.
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zanl188
Posts: 3454
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 5):
Given the weight of the tethered vehicle involved, quite the opposite is true. You'd be lucky to hit it in such a manner that you could fly away.

Relative size & weight does not necessarily dictate which airframe survives a midair, ex: Gol 737 v. Embraer in Brazil a while back.

Could just as easily have ripped off a wheel pant or a wingtip and flown away..... Had a buddy a few years back who had a midair with a 152 while flying his 182. He hit dead on center from below and behind the 152, lost his engine and he ate the windshield. He managed to pull the windshield out of his face in time to flare and deadstick into a wheat field. He walked away. 152 pilot wasn't so lucky, he was dead prior to impact due to 182 prop strikes in the cockpit.
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
It's easy if you don't have a current sectional or if you have one and don't use it.

The Aerostats have been there at least 30 years. It's actually much simpler than it used to be, they used to run them from ships as well and the locations would of course vary considerably.

I love the headline calling it a weather balloon - clueless.
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3DPlanes
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:12 pm

RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 10:58 am

I wouldn't expect them to be lit at night (there's two ballons, iirc)... And there's certainly no beacon or strobes during the day. The chart says "Caution: Unmarked balloon on cable to 14,000 MSL."

Also, a 14,000 cable would have to be fairly sturdy, given the size of the balloons.

Given that it's well marked on charts (and has been since at least the 1980s), I'd say they either didn't have/read the chart, or they weren't quite certain of their position. One excellent reason to, at the least, have a portable GPS...

[Edited 2007-05-05 04:01:47]
"Simplicate and add lightness." - Ed Heinemann
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 6):
Relative size & weight does not necessarily dictate which airframe survives a midair

I think you mis read what I said; I was referring to size/weight of the tethered vehicle, not the flying vehicle. Rationale being that if the tethered vehicle was lightweight and small; the chances are the tether would be severed by any vehicle are increased. My point was that unless the impacting vehicle was VERY significant in size/mass or just BARELY clipped the wire, any vehicle would likely suffer a fatal result as is evidenced by this crash.
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Thorny
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 7):
The Aerostats have been there at least 30 years. It's actually much simpler than it used to be, they used to run them from ships as well and the locations would of course vary considerably

I remember seeing the TAS (Tethered Aerostat System) at Cape Canaveral throughout the late 70s and early 80s. I think that setup is the one which moved to the Keys.
 
halls120
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 3):
It probably is lit at night, but during the day if you aren't paying attention you probably won't see the cable until its to late.

I flew out of Key West this afternoon. The Aerostat is very easy to see, even sitting in the back of an ATR.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting 3DPlanes (Reply 8):
Also, a 14,000 cable would have to be fairly sturdy, given the size of the balloons.

The winch assembly is very substantial.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 10):
I remember seeing the TAS (Tethered Aerostat System) at Cape Canaveral throughout the late 70s and early 80s. I think that setup is the one which moved to the Keys.

I don't think so unless you're talking about one of the ship based ones. They were definitely based at Truman Annex in the 80s.

I did a little checking and it seems that Cudjoe was activated in '78. That sounds about right to me as well.
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corey07850
Posts: 2335
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 4:47 pm

Does anyone have a picture of these things? I've always seen them on sectionals and thought about the possibility of pilots hitting them... I believe there is another one up the West coast of Florida, up north a bit more as well...
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 13):
Does anyone have a picture of these things?

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Thorny
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sat May 05, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 12):
Quoting Thorny (Reply 10):
I remember seeing the TAS (Tethered Aerostat System) at Cape Canaveral throughout the late 70s and early 80s. I think that setup is the one which moved to the Keys.

I don't think so unless you're talking about one of the ship based ones. They were definitely based at Truman Annex in the 80s.

I did a little checking and it seems that Cudjoe was activated in '78. That sounds about right to me as well.

That's about when the Cape Canaveral TAS went in, too, I think. It disappeared around 1982. I always figured they moved it further south. I stand corrected.
 
corey07850
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Sun May 06, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):

Certainly more substantial than I thought!
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Mon May 07, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 13):
I believe there is another one up the West coast of Florida, up north a bit more as well...

There is another active site in FL - Horseshoe Beach, just a bit north of where the Suwanee River hits the Gulf.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 15):
That's about when the Cape Canaveral TAS went in, too, I think. It disappeared around 1982. I always figured they moved it further south. I stand corrected.

No problem, you've corrected me a few times as well and I likewise would rather have it right than not.  Smile
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sprout5199
Posts: 1681
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Tue May 08, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 16):
Certainly more substantial than I thought!

I wonder what they do when a hurricane threatens.

Dan in Jupiter
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1980
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Tue May 08, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 18):
I wonder what they do when a hurricane threatens.

Wow, I never thought of that before! If I had to guess, I would think they'd lower it, and maybe even deflate for storage.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Fatal Plane Crash In The Keys (Tether Blimp Wire)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:01 am

The thing looks like one of the barrage balloons used to deter low altitude attacks in WW2. Back then the balloons had additional wire cables hanging down. The wires would slice the wings straight off an aircraft trying to fly below them.


A US Marine Corps Barrage Balloon from 1942 at Parris Island
(From Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_balloon

RAF barrage balloons over Cardington airfield in the UK in WW2:
http://www.bbrclub.org/baragecardington.jpg
From
http://www.bbrclub.org/, a British veteran's organisation's website of former barrage balloon crews.


Here is an article by a modern military officer about the possible use of barrage ballonns for anti aircraft defense:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...rchronicles/apj/apj89/hillson.html

Jan
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