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Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:30 am

I just came across these pictures in the database and I am just wondering what this military (?) aircraft is used for. Any background information will be appreciated!


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Photo © Ilya Morozov - Russian AviaPhoto Team
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Photo © Ilya Morozov - Russian AviaPhoto Team


[Edited 2007-06-28 01:32:15]
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:42 am

it's one of the Soviet Ekranoplan designs. It is "military", from the late 60s.
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connies4ever
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 1):
it's one of the Soviet Ekranoplan designs. It is "military", from the late 60s.


N

I'll have to dig through my back issues of AIR International, but I think that's the one that was referred to as the "Caspian Sea Monster" by the CIA. Late 60s/early 70s.
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northstardc4m
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:27 am

quite possible... this is the one that actually entered service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-90_Orlyonok
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Devilfish
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 2):
the one that was referred to as the "Caspian Sea Monster" by the CIA.

The head-on shot looks more like the "Mutant Ninja Turtle" to me.  Smile
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mandala499
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:04 am

Isn't the Caspian Sea Monster the Lun-Class Ekranoplan? Only 1 entered service...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan

Yeah the photo's off the A-90... this is a smaller one with turboprop thruster and 2x turbojet forward and lift assist thrusters...

The Caspian Sea Monster was a bigger one... 8 jets... (4 as pure forward thrusters near the tail)...

My memory's vague...

Mandala499
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northstardc4m
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:48 pm

Well the ORIGINAL Caspian Sea Monster was actually the single KM Ekranoplan...



The KM was actually "small" for an Ekranoplan...

The Lun class and the AS-90 were both later designs, much larger, that the CIA and USAF were still trying to fathom up into the 80s and were still known as Caspian Sea Monsters... but anyways, fascinating bit of engineering, pity it's never been used much...
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
kbfispotter
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 6):
The Lun class and the AS-90 were both later designs, much larger

not quite true... Per Sergey Komissarov's book, Russia's Ekranoplans, the KM was the largest of the Alexeyev ekranoplans weighing in at 1,299,300lbs, and 300ft long. the Lun is 240ft long and weighs 838,000lbs, and the Orlyonok (A-90) ios 190ft and weighs 275,000lbs.

Only one KM was built, and it crashed in 1980, one Lun was completed, and is now Derilict at a Russian Amphibious base, and finally, three A-90s were built, and two crashed. It should be mentioned that there is a second lun basically complete in Nizhni Novgorod. Does any one have any information on this? I know that they were wanting to turn it into a search and rescue craft called the Spasatel.

Kris
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keesje
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 6):
Caspian Sea Monsters... but anyways, fascinating bit of engineering, pity it's never been used much...

The window must have been copied from a B17 so ..  Wink

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
deskflier
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:37 am

The Soviets actually had a civilian version in service from the mid-1970s. It carried passengers along the great rivers in Ukraine and southern Russia, the Black Sea coast, and across the Caspian. No known international routes. I don't remember if they were operated by Aeroflot or if they were operated by the Soviet Ferry Service. Pretty sure though that the military variants were operated by the Navy rather than any Aviation Services (FA, AV-MF, or V-TA). Which would indicate that the Ekranoplanes were classified as boats rather than aircraft.

FA = Frontovaya Aviatsiya (Frontal Aviation)
AV-MF = Aviatsiya Voenno - Morskoi Flota (Aviation of the Military High-Seas Fleet)
V-TA = Voenno - Transportny Aviatsiya (Military Airlift Service)

Apologies for my poor Russian.
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RHAnthony
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:31 am

How cool of a house boat would that make? I mean c'mon!!  Smile

Anyone have any KMLs for google earth to show where these places are you guys are talking about the left overs being? Would love to see one @ a dock.
 
sovietjet
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:05 am

Looks like the A-90 has 2xNK-8 turbojets and a NK-12 turboprop!! Imagine the sound that thing makes! Like a blend between older Tu-154s and a Tu-95. Music to the ears.
 
ignat
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:59 pm

Hello!
Deskflier,
There weren't any civil versions. A-90 were belonged to the Naval Aviation, 11th separate aviation group of ekranoplanes (the translation from Russian into English might be not accurately).
 
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autothrust
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:33 pm

Impressive vid, thanks Kessje for posting it.This Ekranoplanes are really marvel of engeneering. Was there ever anything as fast as this things on the Water?

I 've readed that the number one point of the Ekranoplanes was they could under"fly" the Radar is this true?
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RHAnthony
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:12 am

I would imagine something that low would avoid radar, but I would think with ship radar now, that would be something harder to avoid. But... I doubt anything would catch it.

Wondering why this type of design wasn't persued, and it seems the idea for a while was to go to that stealth boat idea the US navy had for a long time. Seems this was working out great.

I could see rough seas being an issue though.

How long til it's on ebay?  Smile
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:29 am

What a monster, It ia almost as big as that submarine.


What exactly is a 'ground effect' ?
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HaveBlue
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 15):
What exactly is a 'ground effect' ?

Ground effect is the phenominon whereby an aircraft flying within one wingspan of the ground has much less induced drag. Say that a planes wingspan is 100' wide. Well when that airplane flies within 100' of the ground its drag is significantly lower.

For an example, when going for my pilots license I practiced soft feild takeoffs. You would pull back on the yoke as you started the take off roll and instead of waiting for 60 knots to rotate you would get airborne as soon as possible, which I think was around 50 knots. Now your airborne at a speed that you can only fly at within that Cessnas 30' wingspan of the ground. So you keep it on the deck until you get that other 10 or so knots of speed, then climb out. Another words in that Cessna I was flying at a speed that was only possible that close to the ground because of the reduced drag.
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 16):

Excellent explanation! Thanks!
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
keesje
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:01 am

In the seventies a version was developped that could fly both in ground effect but also at higher attitude / speeds by Beriev / Bartini. Three proto´s were build, dedicated to ASW.



A prototype is rotting away in an outdoor museum..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Corsair1107
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:57 am

Imagine the ear protection you'd need to pilot that beast with the 8 turbojets, bet it would have been fun though.
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pacificjourney
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:46 am

I looked over one of those sat a military transport museum in Feodisia in the Ukraine. Not sure which model but it was big and beautiful.

Designed for amphibious assault mainly but too many problems with corrosion from flying too close to the sea water all the time.

They are definitely classed ships.
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L-188
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RE: Strange Russian Aircraft, Any Info?

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:51 pm

Is there any good references to the aerodynamics of this form of transportation.

My understanding is that in the US the Erkanoplane falls under USCG not FAA rules.

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 9):
The Soviets actually had a civilian version in service from the mid-1970s.

There was a company proposing to use an Australian designed one in service in southeast alaska. I don't think anything came from it.
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