ulfinator
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Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:06 am

Very Very Sad....Look at the second picture in the article.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/02/shredding.tomcats.ap/index.html
 
Corsair1107
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Would you prefer to part them all out and possibly have spare parts wind up in the hands of somebody that wishes the US destroyed?
Flown on: DHC-6/8, F100, B1900C, 717, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, 319, 320, C152/172, E135/145, DC-9, MD-83/88 CL600
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:37 am

Ahhh Snodgrass...nice guy, hell of a pilot..

Amazing to see how many aren't left in the desert...then again, this airframe experienced alot of losses over it's long career.

I think pre-emptively shredding them while sitting in the safe confines of AMARC is a bit much though....then again, they used to fly these aircraft to museums, pull the seat charges, the classified black boxes, and walk away...maybe take the motors with them, but usually not. Now, as was the case with the Florida Air Museum's F-14D, you're lucky to keep the a/b turkey feathers....usually it's just a black canopy with empty avionics bays. I don't see anything wrong with doing that, at least the memory of the jet will live on.

Seems like just yesterday these jets were the baddest on the block...

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
ulfinator
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Corsair1107 (Reply 1):
Would you prefer to part them all out and possibly have spare parts wind up in the hands of somebody that wishes the US destroyed?

Nope. Still sad though
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:32 am

There must be another alternative. Perhaps keeping them locked until the Iranians' airframes end their lives.

The Collins Foundation owns an F-4 that performs at air shows (read more in P.Smith's hilarious column on this week's Salon). It would be a shame to prevent future generations from seeing the most beautiful fighter ever designed fly. I bet Capt. Snodgrass would be happy to perform a demo on a privately owned Tomcat.
Let's go Pens!
 
Devilfish
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:47 am

Isn't it that LANTIRN pods from the Cats are giving a new lease on life to the S-3B Vikings in Afghanistan and Iraq?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ORDfan
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:35 am

That is a truely sad story. Just came across it on CNN as well and was wondering what guys on here were thinking about it. I think we're all kind of in the same boat on this one.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 6):
The Collins Foundation owns an F-4 that performs at air shows (read more in P.Smith's hilarious column on this week's Salon). It would be a shame to prevent future generations from seeing the most beautiful fighter ever designed fly. I bet Capt. Snodgrass would be happy to perform a demo on a privately owned Tomcat.

I loved the Tomcat the first time I ever saw her at the Chicago air show -- even before I saw Top Gun. I was hoping a few of the later F-14s would be preserved, in flying condition, by either some wealthy individuals or charities or something like that. I was actually hoping one of those civilian companies that does those dog-fighting tours would get a couple of em and let take some civilians for a ride. I sure wouldn't want those babies to get in the wrong hands, either, but there's got to be a better way....
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:05 pm

Says something about the F-14s abilities as a fighter.

After 25+ years with no technical support we are still worried about the F-14 force of an Arab country.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
keesje
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:14 pm

I'm sure a lot of museums in the world would like to have one..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 9):
No doubt, you're referring to Iran, which is predominately Persian, not Arab. Glad you're up on your "threats."

Close enough

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 9):
Hope to see more winged killing machines in pieces soon.

And you read this section of the website for what reason?
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
hemispheres
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:40 am

Let's go over and shred Iran's fleet of F-14 "winged killing machines", and save ours instead.  bigthumbsup 

Besides isn't Iran trying to aquire some MIG-29s and SU-30s? I wonder how far they would go to piece together their 80 old F-14s.
"I have to put in my two cents, but I only get a penny for my thoughts. - Someone is making money"
 
CF188A
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:40 am

what I dont understand is ... there are TONS of commercial aircraft just rotting. Why are those not cut apart and re-used?
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
AirRyan
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting CF188A (Reply 11):
what I dont understand is ... there are TONS of commercial aircraft just rotting. Why are those not cut apart and re-used?

Two words for you: Di¢k Cheney.

He's the one who single handidly went against the wishes of the USN at the time and cancelled the F-14D program shortly after it had begun it's 392 build was Congressionally funded and approved per the USN's request. Cheney had a pi$$ing contest with Grumman execs that evidently carries over to this day - Cheney even ordered the F-14 tooling to be destroyed when he axed the program (fortunately it was not) and I would not be surprised one bit to learn Cheney had something to do with this latest program. You can take precautions to remove sensitive parts (which the USN has done) and the remaining airframes can still be stored in the boneyard around a security perimeter, but someone evidently still thought there was a need to physically destroy as many F-14's as they could - who would have such a beef against the F-14?

Di¢k Cheney - I'd sure like to hear his side of the story someday, but then again I'm not sure I would really trust what he had to say anyways!

[Edited 2007-07-04 05:01:41]
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:14 pm

I know, it was a bum deal and the Boeing mafia owns the entire flight deck...when they stick the dome and 3NFO's on a Hornet, that is.

But, like the bumper sticker on my truck says....

"I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney....


than ride in a car with Ted Kennedy"


:D Big grin

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Wolverine
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:04 pm

Sad that it has to end in this way! Ok, I can understand that they don't want to see it in wrong hands.. But why not let them rust in peace or display it in Museums all over the world? I don't know any european Museum, that has a Tomcat on display..
So if the Navy cut out the sensitive Parts, why destroy this great plane totally?
Face your fears, live your dreams! (No Fear)
 
CF188A
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Wolverine (Reply 14):
Sad that it has to end in this way! Ok, I can understand that they don't want to see it in wrong hands.. But why not let them rust in peace or display it in Museums all over the world? I don't know any european Museum, that has a Tomcat on display..
So if the Navy cut out the sensitive Parts, why destroy this great plane totally?

at that there are F-104 display teams, Sabre Display Teams, Mig-21 Display Teams.... ETC. Would it not make sense to keep an F-14 / SR-71 in the same fashion? I would rather see an SR-71 fly then a mig lol. But then again I am sure the politics and the cost at running one of those things (sr-71) is slightly different than a mig-21
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
Wolverine
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:03 am

Even if it's not ready to fly, I would like to see it in an european museum.. What about Duxford? They already have a lot of american Warbirds, so the F-14 would perfectly fit in their collection.
Face your fears, live your dreams! (No Fear)
 
PPVRA
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:26 am

That is just sad. I wish TAM would buy one or two, they have a museum with a bunch of old birds.

http://www.museutam.com.br/smt/jsp/d...ault.jhtml?adPagina=563&adIdioma=2
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:12 pm

I agree with keeping the F-14D's and F-14B's handy....don't canabalize them, leave them be. I'm sure they have though-the services have a way of keeping their most-recent aircraft ready to go, while the previous generations in storage will rot/be scrapped....or in the case of the F-4,a nice drone. I doubt you'll see the F-14 become a drone as the operating
costs would be staggering...they can't wait to transition to the F-16 forcost's sake.

There were some OLD F-14's that were certainly cycled out, rotting awaythere, so I suppose that's alot of what they're doing. Still sad though.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
bennett123
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:20 pm

Deltaguy

You do remember what happened on Dick Cheney's shooting party....

Anyone who shots without a clear target is a menace, (unless he shot the guy deliberately  Wink ).

Particularly given that one of the party had dropped out of sight.

As for Kennedy, he is a long time has been.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:12 am

Right Bennett, but the point of the bumper sticker was to say that Ted Kennedy was the more evil of the two...given the choice I'd chose Dick Cheney, at least I'd survive the shooting vs. drowning to death in a car.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:34 am

I think it's kind of ridiculous and paranoid, but that's the SOP. Let's see, Iran's (relatively) untrained pilots in some old F-14Alphas vs. professional killers in F-22s, F-35s and F-18Es, you do the math...
 Wink
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LMP737
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:58 am

While they are at it they better cut up all the F-4's and F-5's since the Iranian Air Force has them as well.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
gocaps16
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:10 pm

Wow, the day has finally come. I remember hearing stories at work while we were starting our transistion to Hornets. Pretty much they were right on what was going to happen to the engines and to the airframes. The engine would be cut in half and be smashed into a big metal 4x4 block, like a Coke can and also the Air Force and the Navy would use it as "target" practice. Sad indeed.
 
Pride
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:32 pm

As far as i know the only reason the Iranian F-14s are a threat is it's radar. That's why the Iranians like to keep them flying at all costs.
 
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vzlet
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:01 pm

Maybe the Iranians should send a couple of F-14s out on the airshow circuit...
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
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par13del
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Lets say for arguments sake I buy into the VP being behind this move, what does it say for the Navy administration who were all over the place bad-mouthing the a/c as being no longer modern, incapable of dealing with the current generation of fighter a/c, too expensive to maintain, mission no longer necessary etc, etc, etc. Why would the Pentagon care if China or Iran get their hands on this a/c and keep it flying, would the US not have an edge over Iran if they continue to fly an obsolete a/c which the modern F-18's can handle with ease, or were they just throwing their integrity away to please the VP?
 
HanginOut
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 26):
Lets say for arguments sake I buy into the VP being behind this move, what does it say for the Navy administration who were all over the place bad-mouthing the a/c as being no longer modern, incapable of dealing with the current generation of fighter a/c, too expensive to maintain, mission no longer necessary etc, etc, etc. Why would the Pentagon care if China or Iran get their hands on this a/c and keep it flying, would the US not have an edge over Iran if they continue to fly an obsolete a/c which the modern F-18's can handle with ease, or were they just throwing their integrity away to please the VP?

Let's not forget that the "Navy administration" is packed with political appointees. I don't see any of them wanting to cross Cheney (if he is indeed behind this -which I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he is), he is not a guy that you cross. He has a long memory and will go out of his way to "get you".

If the Navy were told that the F-14 was gone, then they would have come up with lots of reasons to get rid of it, just as they would have come up with tons of reasons to keep it (had the decision been to keep the F-14). The Navy administration are just doing what their political masters want them to do.

As for the idea of keeping some F-14s in reserve (especially the D models), that would have been a fantastic idea. They could have been given to the Navy reserve to operate and if needed could have been deployed to provide fleet defence to the carriers in case they need a long range fighter for any future conflict requiring long range air superiority fighters (cough cough, think China vs Taiwan).

The first time I saw the F-14 I fell in love with it and will miss it. As for the decision to get rid of it  thumbsdown 
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Cadet985
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:12 am

Maybe someday, F-14s will fly in the airshow circuit...there's a museum in Reading, PA - the Mid Atlantic Air Museum...they recovered a P-61 which was in many pieces since it crashed on a mountain in Indonesia during WW2. It will take several years, but the museum says that the P-61 will do what its surviving sisters can no longer do - fly.

Project website

Thoughts on the idea that someday the F-14 may fly in this role are appreciated.

Marc
 
RHAnthony
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:48 am

I wish I had the check book to pick one up ... would be nice for quick visits from here at LAX back to IAD to see my parents :P
 
CF188A
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 21):
Let's see, Iran's (relatively) untrained pilots in some old F-14Alphas vs. professional killers in F-22s, F-35s and F-18Es, you do the math...

common sense u mean Smile
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
747400sp
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RE: Pentagon Shreds F-14s...

Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting HanginOut (Reply 27):
He has a long memory and will go out of his way to "get you".

Is Dick Cheney really this eveil?

PS: I do not like him, but I just wanted to know is he this eveil.

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