keesje
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Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:30 pm

While SU-30Ks have faced USAF F-15Cs and F-16s at COPE India 2004 and COPE India 2005, Indra Dhanush 2007 featured more advanced combatants on both sides. On one side is Britain's Eurofighter Typhoon, whose advanced aerodynamics and intuitive controls and avionics have led to studies like the UK DERA rating it as the second-best air superiority aircraft in the world. Its supporting cast includes 1980s era Tornado F3 air defense variants, and upgraded GR9 Harriers from the Royal Navy. On the other side is India's SU-30MKI, the most evolved variant of Sukhoi's outstanding Flanker family, with aerodynamics that allow unique maneuvers, and full thrust vectoring besides.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/09853256-EC6C-43FA-B6E6-BD8496C10FFA/0/GLD075171.jpg

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...2007-indra-dhanush-exercise-03470/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:15 pm

Very interesting!

Too bad none of the results are made available. How well trained are the Indian pilots?
 
Devilfish
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies.

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 1):

Too bad none of the results are made available.

The official statement doesn't vary much from the DID report.....

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3412

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 1):
How well trained are the Indian pilots?

Well enough, it would appear.....

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3446
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:52 am

Quote:
Squadron Leader Garg explained that the daylong competition comprised 12 groups with four members each, who had to participate in a series of challenging physical competitions such as an obstacle course, group tasks, walk-in-the-water, shooting competition, first-aid treatment and aircraft recognition

They didn;t get that trophy for their flying skills  

It's a good thing that NATO pilots have an apportunity to practice with Allies who fly these state-of-the-art Russian planes.

Quote:
he stated after having competed at the meet with aircrews from France, RAF, Jordan, Finland, Czechoslovakia, Netherland, Belgium, Italy to name a few.

Seams that can use a geography lesson as well

[Edited 2007-07-17 18:54:51]
 
Devilfish
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 3):
They didn;t get that trophy for their flying skills

Nobody said they did. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are not good pilots.  Smile
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
checksixx
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 3):
Seams that can use a geography lesson as well

I wouldn't be so hard on them about that when your spelling is also a bit off...Either way the exercise went, I'm sure everyone feels good about lessons learned....no matter what the percieved outcome was.
 
Sinlock
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 5):
I wouldn't be so hard on them about that when your spelling is also a bit off...

I think he's pointing out the fact that that "Czechoslovakia" no longer exists. In 1993 it split into The Czech Repbulic and Slovakia.
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 6):
I think he's pointing out the fact that that "Czechoslovakia" no longer exists. In 1993 it split into The Czech Repbulic and Slovakia.

correctemundo!

I would be quite offended if I were either Czech or Slovakian..
 
BarfBag
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 1):
How well trained are the Indian pilots?



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 3):
They didn;t get that trophy for their flying skills

Why the skepticism about the skills of Indian pilots ? Why would they be qualitatively worse than RAF pilots in terms of individual skills ? Seems very unwarranted considering how past exercises have gone, e.g. multiple Cope India events when they didn't even operate the MKI, and even flew Fishbeds against Eagles.
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 8):
Why the skepticism about the skills of Indian pilots ? Why would they be qualitatively worse than RAF pilots in terms of individual skills ? Seems very unwarranted considering how past exercises have gone, e.g. multiple Cope India events when they didn't even operate the MKI, and even flew Fishbeds against Eagles.

This was certainly not my intention, and my apologies if this was understood. The ironic remark was merely made, because of the hilarious (in my opinion) description of the contest where they won a prize.

I think India has probably the most skilled Air Force in Asia, mainly because it has probably the most operational experience. I would like to know more about them, because at the moment I have very little information about the Indian Air Force.

About the geography lesson: that was meant for those who made that website  Wink
 
BarfBag
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:45 am

Well, the event was called Royal International Air Tattoo . That's an amusing enough title, so its no surprise they have interesting prizes as well  Smile

About the Czech blooper, well, the partition was a fairly minor news item at least in India, compared to the Balkan conflict. The downside of a peaceful and quiet separation is that not everyone is aware of it immediately...

There's a lot about the IAF at the Bharat Rakshak IAF site - everything from history to current forces, with a lot of details and news.
 
jutes85
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:18 am

Those SU-30's are gorgeous and BIG!!
nothing
 
PADSpot
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 11):
Those SU-30's are gorgeous and BIG!!

Normally it's the French planes that people call beautiful or elegant. Amazingly here the Russian managed to make a relatively huge airplnes just as pretty.

I wonder how the Su-30's radar cross section compares to that of the Eurofighter (less than 1m²) ?
 
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autothrust
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
I wonder how the Su-30's radar cross section compares to that of the Eurofighter (less than 1m²) ?

Nope, from all the data i could find its about 7-10m2 you have to consider the Su-30MKI its pretty big.

There are claims the MKI achieving a RCS reduction after comprehensive treatement by RAM and they managed to reduce it to 3 m2 without any load.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
PADSpot
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 13):
Nope, from all the data i could find its about 7-10m2 you have to consider the Su-30MKI its pretty big.

No no, I meant the RCS of the EF is about 1m² . 7-10m² is really large though and extensive use of RAM will it make pretty expensive.

Is there any information available on the Su-30s ECM systems? I ask because in case you already have a small RCS a sophisticated ECM system can really be multiplier in combat effectiveness, while with a large airplane (RCS-wise) it it can be at max live-saving.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:35 am

There's a domestic programme at HAL to utilize knowledge from the LCA project on the MKIs through the use of RAM and replacing several surfaces with composite ones. HAL has already started domestic manufacture of MKIs under contract.

The MKIs avionics are a combination of Indian, Russian, French and Israeli components.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Specs/Su-30.html
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_407.shtml
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Current/Fighters/Su30MKI/
 
checksixx
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies..

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 10):
Well, the event was called Royal International Air Tattoo .

RIAT is an airshow, not an exercise.
 
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autothrust
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies.

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 14):
No no, I meant the RCS of the EF is about 1m² . 7-10m² is really large though and extensive use of RAM will it make pretty expensive.

From what BAE Systems "declared" less then a half meter.(exact data is classified so about 0,3m2) But on lots of sites about EF its about 0,5m without any load.

Exactly, however the EF has on several parts RAM like engines intakes, canards, wings, just the most RCS important parts.




RCS Test at BAE Systems


IMO its also important to mention the EF was designed in mind to work as passive as possible which is also achieved through sensorfusion.



edit: links

[Edited 2007-07-20 21:40:37]
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
BarfBag
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RE: Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Vs Typhoon, Skip The Studies.

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 16):
RIAT is an airshow, not an exercise.

The IAF participated both at the RIAT at RAF Fairford, and a separate bilateral RAF-IAF exercise at RAF Waddington called Indra Dhanush (lit. Bow of Indra - the Hindu God of War, also means rainbow) 2007. The primary purpose was the latter, with the RIAT being merely a short sideshow at the end of actual exercises.

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