ebj1248650
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"Rafale" Translation

Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:19 am

I read some time ago the name "Rafale" is translated "Squal" and the writer noted that this was not an inspiring name for a high performance tactical fighter. I don't speak French, but suspect the more literal translation might be "Storm" which would be very appropriate for a fighter name. Can anyone tell me if "Storm" is the way Rafale is meant to be translated?
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NoUFO
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Thread starter):
Can anyone tell me if "Storm" is the way Rafale is meant to be translated?

My French is pretty rusty, but I would say "Gust" comes a little closer than "Storm".
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A342
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 1):
My French is pretty rusty, but I would say "Gust" comes a little closer than "Storm".

My French dictionaries confirm that, it means "gust". But in the military context, it can also mean "fire burst".
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
jwenting
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:58 pm

squal, proper name for the French military  Smile
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ebj1248650
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
squal, proper name for the French military

Not a particularly inspiring name, given the English translation. But "Rafale" has always sounded nice to me.
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PADSpot
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 4):
Rafale

It sounds exactly like what it distinguishes it from any other combat aircraft: Elegance and the art of integrating aesthetics in the design process.
 
Fairchild24
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:01 am

Dear All

I read in an inteview with Erik Bratt the creator of SAAB 35 Draken, that the name he had in mind was "kite" and not "dragon" as many people think.

Drake(n) is both kite and dragon in Swedish.

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ebj1248650
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
It sounds exactly like what it distinguishes it from any other combat aircraft: Elegance and the art of integrating aesthetics in the design process.

That implies the name was chosen for the way it sounds, rather than chosen for its meaning. If true, the name does have a nice sound to it; distinctively French and not too military.
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ptrjong
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Fairchild24 (Reply 6):
I read in an inteview with Erik Bratt the creator of SAAB 35 Draken, that the name he had in mind was "kite" and not "dragon" as many people think.

Drake(n) is both kite and dragon in Swedish.

That's an interesting tidbit. But a dragon it is, not a kite, even if Erik Bratt didn't realize it yet.

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EmmenezMoi
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:38 am

I can confirm that rafale in French means either strong gust or blast (of wind), or alternatively a burst of fire (from a gun), which I think are both quite suitable for a military fighter...
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 5):
It sounds exactly like what it distinguishes it from any other combat aircraft: Elegance and the art of integrating aesthetics in the design process.

Elegance and aesthetics belong on iPods, cars, and clothing, not warplanes.
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A342
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
Elegance and aesthetics belong on iPods, cars, and clothing, not warplanes.

I previously thought that especially a.net members appreviate that, but it seems I'm wrong...  Yeah sure
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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N328KF
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 11):
I previously thought that especially a.net members appreviate that, but it seems I'm wrong...

By your suggestion, we should all be A-10 haters.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
PADSpot
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 12):

By your suggestion, we should all be A-10 haters.

It's matter of taste whether you find beauty in it or not. It's not that ugly after all ...
 
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N328KF
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
It's matter of taste whether you find beauty in it or not. It's not that ugly after all ...

Listen, my point isn't that warfighters can't be pretty. It's just that should be a peripheral consideration.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
PADSpot
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 14):
It's just that should be a peripheral consideration.

That is something you will not able be to convince a real Frenchman of. Ever been to France? They try to put beauty in everything. I guess that's part of being French. Similar to Brits putting beans on toast. Nobody outside Britain would ever do that.
 
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N328KF
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 15):
That is something you will not able be to convince a real Frenchman of. Ever been to France? They try to put beauty in everything. I guess that's part of being French.

Yes, you're obviously right.



That said, the Rafale is, indeed, pretty. I'm not so fond of the Mirage deltas though.
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PADSpot
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:13 am

lol ...haha ...  thumbsup 
 
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sebolino
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
squal, proper name for the French military

LOL. What should we say about dutch military then ???  Smile


Rafale is a very nice and elegant name, evoking the wind and the speed. The second meaning - like it was already said - of rafale is something repetitive and very fast.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:10 am

Replacing the Crusader in the French Navy,and with that silhouette, she might almost have been named Crucifix. Sorry for the self-plug.

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Seriously, Rafale is indeed a pretty name, like Mirage before her. So much better than Fighting Falcon, to give a particularly bad example.

Peter Smile
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ebj1248650
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):
Seriously, Rafale is indeed a pretty name, like Mirage before her. So much better than Fighting Falcon, to give a particularly bad example.

Peter

They could have left off the "Fighting" and just named the F-16 "Falcon". "Fighting Falcon" seems to convey the impression someone wanted to be sure the world knew this was going to be a "fighting" airplane. Like fighters are for anything else!  Smile
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ptrjong
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 20):
They could have left off the "Fighting" and just named the F-16 "Falcon". "Fighting Falcon" seems to convey the impression someone wanted to be sure the world knew this was going to be a "fighting" airplane. Like fighters are for anything else!

Exactly my point Smile Btw, is a 'fighting falcon' a falconer's (hawker's) bird, as in 'fighting cock'? But even then it's not a good name, too long. 'Falcon' might have stuck. The 'Viper' nickname is very good I think. Incidentally some Dutch people used to call the F-16 the Bunzing (Polecat).

Peter
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dl021
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:06 am

The translation fails the original meaning. If you think of Rafale as a sudden burst or blast of violent and buffeting winds then perhaps you've reached a good bit closer to the original meaning.....a squall is perhaps better than a gust....

the airplane is certainly a good bit more than a 'gust' of a strike fighter.....

Quoting N328KF (Reply 12):
By your suggestion, we should all be A-10 haters.

Never, sir! The Warthog is the prettiest fixed-winged airplane in the sky to grunts everywhere......
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 22):
The translation fails the original meaning. If you think of Rafale as a sudden burst or blast of violent and buffeting winds then perhaps you've reached a good bit closer to the original meaning.....a squall is perhaps better than a gust....

Now that I got to know what Rafale means I fathom that it seams to be a European tradition to name war birds after meteorological effects (Rafale, Mirage, Typhoon, Tornado ...) while the US are more fond of birds of prey and other animals like warthogs.

Why not name them after cartoon heroes? How about the The "F-22 Homer" or the "F-35 Kenny"? That would be far more contemporary. I mean aircraft carriers are named after presidents, who are also some type of hero for some people.
 
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 21):
Incidentally some Dutch people used to call the F-16 the Bunzing (Polecat).

I heard older pilots who also flew the F-104 call the F-16 "het gebakje" which means cup cake, because it flies so smooth as eating a cup cake or something  Smile

BTW, I like the fact the F-35 is called Lightning II (nice meterological effect  Wink ) and tribute to the Lockheed P-38 Lightning and English Electric Lightning
 
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 20):
"Fighting Falcon" seems to convey the impression someone wanted to be sure the world knew this was going to be a "fighting" airplane.

The plane was so pretty, they had to emphasize that.....

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Quoting PADSpot (Reply 23):
and other animals like warthogs.

The A-10 was nicknamed that. Its official name is also weather related.....

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[Edited 2007-08-15 13:46:47]
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 25):
The plane was so pretty, they had to emphasize that.....

So many people, so many opionions.  Smile No matter how good it is, the F-16 is not a pretty fighter in my opinion. It's the Polecat, the Viper, the Sucking Belly.

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Quoting PADSpot (Reply 23):
the US are more fond of birds of prey and other animals like warthogs.

Warthog is a nickname, not an official name... the nicknames are always on the ball, while the official names are often a bit bombastic.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 24):
heard older pilots who also flew the F-104 call the F-16 "het gebakje" which means cup cake, because it flies so smooth as eating a cup cake or something

In other words, Piece of Cake Smile

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 24):
BTW, I like the fact the F-35 is called Lightning II (nice meterological effect ) and tribute to the Lockheed P-38 Lightning and English Electric Lightning

The tribute to the P-38 is nice, but since the P-38 and EE Lighting were twins and essentially interceptors, the name doesn't fit the F-35 in my opinion.

Peter
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F27Friendship
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 26):
The tribute to the P-38 is nice, but since the P-38 and EE Lighting were twins and essentially interceptors, the name doesn't fit the F-35 in my opinion.

it does reflect on Lockheed (P-38) and BAE (of which EE is a heritage company) and emphasizes the international aspect of the programme. Also, both P-38 and Lightning were revolutionary aircraft, as is the F-35.

Answering your comment more directly: I don't think the F-35 is a mere bomb-truck
 
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 26):
the Sucking Belly

So what do you call the Eurofighter? While I like the EF's looks for the most part, the square double intakes underneath give an un-elegant look head on and from certain angles on the ground it looks like a plane sitting atop two boxes.

Now the Thunderbolt II...THAT'S a beautiful aircraft from any angle Big grin (except maybe the angle from an enemy tank  Wink )! Ungainly and beautiful, I always liked it and always will. Sad to see her leave.

ANd on the topic at hand, the Rafale is a nice looking aircraft. I like that type of design (canard w/delta) but as

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 19):

shows, it can look odd when viewed head-on on the ground with the landing gear and how the underbelly is contoured into the canards.

Tug
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dl021
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 24):
I like the fact the F-35 is called Lightning II

And the Warthog was named officially the Thunderbolt II.....

what really matters is what the troopies call it and how it performs.
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ptrjong
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 28):
So what do you call the Eurofighter? While I like the EF's looks for the most part, the square double intakes underneath give an un-elegant look head on and from certain angles on the ground it looks like a plane sitting atop two boxes.

Yes, the Eurofighter's intake look worse than the F-16's, and overall, the Eurofighter (or Typhoon, quite a good name) always looks like a cheap piece of plastic to me (while in truth it is an expensive piece of plastic biggrin  )

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No curves.

I like this thread Smile
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Devilfish
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 26):
It's the Polecat

This was the Polecat.....  Wink

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-f-35-jsf-among-other-new-uav.html

Quoting Tugger (Reply 28):
Sad to see her leave.

Considering all the upgrades it's getting, including that being developed for the engines - chances are the younger Hogs would still be around past its planned retirement in 2028.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-2bn-contract-to-rewing-a-10s.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...heed-delivers-warthog-upgrade.html

Quote:
"Development of an upgrade for the type’s General Electric TF34 engine, primarily to increase thrust by using technology from the commercial CF34, is expected to begin in fiscal year 2007 and take three years, Il Grande says."

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ech-hog-the-a10c-pe-program-03187/

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
what really matters is what the troopies call it and how it performs.

 checkmark 
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MCIGuy
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RE: "Rafale" Translation

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:08 am

How about "Démodé A La Naissance"?  Big grin
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