LH526
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Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:26 am

So, pending governmental approval, the FACh decided to go for a second hand A310 MRTT as the new presidential plane dubbed "Bachelet Uno".

Any guesses where the plane might come from? Germany?

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
columba
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:30 am

Nice to see that there will be some more A310MRTTs around the world except for Germany and Canada. Any idea were the aircraft will come from ?
P.S. Should this thread not be in mil.av.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:51 am

Unlikely it would come from German Air Force. Maybe Canada trades in one of theirs now that they get C-17s?
 
WrenchBender
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 2):
Maybe Canada trades in one of theirs now that they get C-17s?

We have no plans of downsizing the CC150 fleet, besides we only modded 2 to MRTT status.

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:26 am

Any links? I don't think 921 has too many cycles on it - did it come from airline service previously and now getting a bit troublesome? Not sure that it had been fitted with AFTs, but if range is the only issue, wouldn't a PATS/Boeing modification be a better idea?

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I don't think a switch to an as old tanker/transport is more desirable, but if size and range are the driving factors, then this dedicated VIP 735 will likely lose out. If not from Canada and Germany, who else has A310 MRTTs? Might it be one of the VIP 767s currently available?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LH526
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:57 am

For political reasons Bachelet opted for getting a plane that is not entirely VIP but can also be used on a multi purpose basis. Not the smartest move in my oppinion .. it might b a good coice in politics,. but will turn out a big disadvanage in every day FACh service.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
Any links? I don't think 921 has too many cycles on it - did it come from airline service previously and now getting a bit troublesome?

No, the B735 came directly from Boeing and is the real Presidential VIP plane, not so the FACh B733 wich is an ex LH plane.

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
texl1649
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:05 am

The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.
 
WrenchBender
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 6):
The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.

Say What ?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet
Hardly a despot, are you maybe confusing HER with August Pinochet?

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:55 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
If not from Canada and Germany, who else has A310 MRTTs

Nobody, France and Spain have A310 in Air force service though ... but not as MRTTs. Maybe they get a second-hand A310 from some airline and subsequently let EADS refit it to MRTT?
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
Maybe they get a second-hand A310 from some airline and subsequently let EADS refit it to MRTT?

Did a little search. Apparently, EADS offered the MRTT to Chile. This may be where the debate originally came from (in Spanish).....

http://aeroblogs.aeropuertosarg.com...._presidencial&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
kaitak
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:39 am

They will be -200s rather than -300s, according to Flight International:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...presidential-transport-duties.html

That kind of narrows it down a bit; kind of surprising really, since one would think that -300s would be preferable, particularly given the extra weight of equipment on the tanker aircraft which might compromise the -200's range a bit?
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:30 am

Quote:

Chile is acquiring a pair of Airbus A310-200s for presidential transport and air-to-air refuelling duties under a $104 million deal with EADS.

The European aircraft will replace the air force's Boeing 737-500 and the contract with EADS covers the purchase and overhaul of the two A310s, plus the conversion of one of the airliners to multi-role tanker/transport configuration.

So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...
 
columba
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
They will be -200s rather than -300s, according to Flight International:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...presidential-transport-duties.html

That kind of narrows it down a bit; kind of surprising really, since one would think that -300s would be preferable, particularly given the extra weight of equipment on the tanker aircraft which might compromise the -200's range a bit?

Where do the aircraft come from ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:48 am

Does it have winglets?.....

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Could both be any of these?.....

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Photo © DAI - Dutch Aviation Images


IIRC, some of SQ's and Lufthansa's -200 series went to FedEx while Air India's were -300 series.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):
So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...

Or, could this have been tied to LA's later orders?  scratchchin 
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
connies4ever
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 6):
The A310MRTT might be a great plane, but it's not great to see it used by a despot.

Ms Bachelet was elected in an observed and fair democratic process.
Catch up on the facts.

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 7):
Say What ?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachelet
Hardly a despot, are you maybe confusing HER with August Pinochet?

 checkmark  Most likely.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
Where do the aircraft come from ?

Desert? Turkish still has one, S7 might have a low number of them ... any other?

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 13):
Or, could this have been tied to LA's later orders? scratchchin

But the contract partner of defense deals is usually EADS directly or Airbus Military in case of the A400M. Civilian deals are made with Airbus directly ...?
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):
1x MRTT conversion

Is this -300 airframe still being used for air refuelling boom tests and retained as a testbed for potential tanker orders? Must be pretty rundown with a lot of cycles.....

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The -200 series were already ordered - but how serious a logistical issue would it be (pilots, mx crew, spare parts, etc) if a -200 were selected for the VIP duty and a -300 for the MRTT? Wouldn't there be more -300s in better condition available than -200s?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 15):
But the contract partner of defense deals is usually EADS directly or Airbus Military in case of the A400M. Civilian deals are made with Airbus directly ...?

Isn't Airbus still part of EADS? If they could partner with NG on a potential multi-billion dollar contract and make it work, I don't think an inter-division (or however they categorize it) arrangement would be impossible.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:22 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
Must be pretty rundown with a lot of cycles....

Why? It's not that old. Its former operaters used it primarily on long haul and test aircrafts usually don't get that much cycles.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):

Isn't Airbus still part of EADS? If they could partner with NG on a potential multi-billion dollar contract and make it work, I don't think an inter-division (or however they categorize it) arrangement would be impossible.

I actually don't have sufficient knowledge to answer that, that's why I put a question mark behind it. Organizational and legal structures at EADS are WEIRD to say the least. And I don't know how the Chilean Air Force relates to LA.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
The -200 series were already ordered - but how serious a logistical issue would it be (pilots, mx crew, spare parts, etc) if a -200 were selected for the VIP duty and a -300 for the MRTT? Wouldn't there be more -300s in better condition available than -200s?

A313 and A312 are not THAT different. Pilot type ratings should be the same as they share the same cockpit and the same dimensions. The -300 has slightly updated engines, 7tons additional fuel in the tail plane plus the winglets (which the A312 can also have). I don't think it would be an issue.

The only issue I see is: Which air frame is it going to be: There are some in the desert and very few in airline service.
 
zvocio79
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:54 pm

what ever variant it is, it better be a long range ass aircraft.....so so she wont have to stop in 4 different airports when flying to MAD for instance.
that 737 they have can't even make it from the northern Chilean City of Arica to the southern Punta Arenas, what a shame...with a 10% copper reserve thier armed forces get the should be able to afford a 767-300 or something.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Zvocio79 (Reply 18):
what ever variant it is, it better be a long range ass aircraft.....so so she wont have to stop in 4 different airports when flying to MAD for instance.

 checkmark  yes, better a -300 than a -200, the difference is a little more than one hour of flight, independent of how many ACTs they put in her belly ...
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:55 pm

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
Any guesses where the plane might come from? Germany?



Quoting Columba (Reply 12):

Where do the aircraft come from ?



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 17):
The only issue I see is: Which air frame is it going to be:

It seems Columba himself has provided the answer to these.....

Luftwaffe Will Get 2 Used A340s In 2010 (by Columba Mar 1 2008 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

Quoting Columba (Reply 44):
The A310 will not be comverted into MRT(T)S but will be sold.


It looks like the A310s would come from Germany, after all.

[Edited 2008-03-07 14:00:21]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PADSpot
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:29 am



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
It seems Columba himself has provided the answer to these.....

Luftwaffe Will Get 2 Used A340s In 2010 (by Columba Mar 1 2008 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.
 
columba
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:16 pm



Quoting PADSpot (Reply 21):
That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.

According to some rumors the deal between LH and the Ministry of Defence was in the works for some time now.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:17 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 21):
That conclusion may be obvious now, but the Chilenean intend to buy A310 MRTT popped up much earlier than the German intend to replace A310VIPs with A343s.

As noted above, the deal with Chile must have also been under negotiation for quite a while, and would likely be as you described (maybe discounted a bit for the actual cost).....

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 11):

So 104Mil$ for 2x used A312s + 2x D-Check + 1x MRTT conversion. I'd guess it would cost about 90Mil$, but OK, EADS want to make its profit ...

.....and although it may not mean anything, Flightglobal's linked report in Reply 10 was curiously illustrated by a photo of the Luftwaffe's A310 tanker - albeit a -304, as their MRTTs are the same series.....

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[Edited 2008-03-13 18:35:36]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:19 pm

Could anybody please confirm if this is now Chile's Fuerza Area Uno  Confused

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If it is, then the A310MRTTs might not have been converted, or pushed through - after all.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
bennett123
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:23 pm

A310

0270 5N-AUE ST 1988-
0276 F-OGYW ST 1990-1991 2002-
0285 5N-AUF ST 1996-2008
RTS 2008-
0291 7T-VJC
0293 7T-VJD ST 2004-
0295 TS-IGU ST 1987-1988 2005-
0300 F-WQTE ST 2003-2003 2003-
0306 TS-IGV ST 1987-1988 2005-
0309 TC-AKV ST 2005-
0311 B-2301 ST 1989-1992
Museum Beijing 2006- 39,052 Hrs/20,968 Cycles
0320 B-2302 ST 1984-1985 1992-1992
0329 5N-AUG ST 1988-1995 1998-2002
Restaurant 2002-2006+
0338 EP-IBM ST 2008-
0340 5N-AUH ST 1999-2005+
0352 5B-DAS ST 2003-
0357 JY-JAV 45,468 Hrs/25,779 Cycles
0367 CA-02
0370 EP-IBP
0372 CA-01
0375 EP-IBN ST 2008-
0379 EP-IBO
0386 TC-JCO
0389 EP-IBQ
0390 EP-BIQ
0427 VP-BTK
0430 VP-BSY
0468 VP-BSZ
0472 VP-BAF ST 1996-1998
0486 VP-BTM

I theory there is plenty of choice.

However, if you eliminate Iran as a source and those that are prob unflyable it really comes down to S7. AFAIK the Luftwaffe aircaraft are A310-300's.
 
A342
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:58 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 24):
Could anybody please confirm if this is now Chile's Fuerza Area Uno



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 24):
If it is, then the A310MRTTs might not have been converted, or pushed through - after all.

Both statements are right. I have also read that FACh wants to buy two former USAF KC-135Es (they need booms for their new F-16s).
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
bennett123
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RE: Chiles New Presidential Plane: A310 Mrtt

Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:13 pm

A310 version 2

0276 F-OGYW ST 1990-1991 2002-
0291 7T-VJC
0293 7T-VJD ST 2004-
0295 TS-IGU ST 1987-1988 2005-
0300 F-WQTE ST 2003-2003 2003-
0306 TS-IGV ST 1987-1988 2005-
0309 TC-AKV ST 2005-
0320 B-2302 ST 1984-1985 1992-1992
0338 EP-IBM ST 2008-
0352 5B-DAS ST 2003-
0357 JY-JAV 45,468 Hrs/25,779 Cycles
0367 CA-02
0370 EP-IBP
0372 CA-01
0375 EP-IBN ST 2008-
0379 EP-IBO
0386 TC-JCO
0389 EP-IBQ
0390 EP-BIQ
0427 VP-BTK
0430 VP-BSY
0468 VP-BSZ
0472 VP-BAF ST 1996-1998
0486 VP-BTM

Even this is somewhat generous.

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