manfredj
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Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:19 pm

Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft? The 200's are getting on in age, and I'm sure the U.S. government would love to help Boeing out in sparking 747NG orders. The last question like this came up in the forums 5 years ago, and speculation suggested the 747-400.

Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?
757: The last of the best
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:29 pm

The current Air Force Ones were newbuilds. They are so customized that the bare frame is about the only thing that is standard. It was delivered green and then customized out the wazoo from there. The secret service had people who shaddowed the construction from word go at every step. They are not going to be replaced anytime soon because there is no where near the number of cycles that the airframe can handle. It is so babied and over serviced every part is probably like brand new. I can see various upgrades happening that we may or may not even know about. These planes despite all the wishes are not going anywhere for a long time. Watch for a 787 to eventually replace the 757's but even then it won't happen really soon.

Those two frames are for business jets. Likely one Arab and one Russian.
 
caribb
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:41 pm

If I recall correctly from memory there is a stipulation that mandates an Air Force One selection to be a plane that's been in commerical service for at least 5 years (or some specified number of years).. which is why they chose the 747-200 variant over the then existing -400 model which had just come onto the market when they were shopping for the 707 replacement. Also, a 777 would now be a consideration as well I guess... or the 787-10 if that's out by then and in service long enough. Interesting to think what might be many years down the road.
 
Cactus742
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:47 pm

I imagine that since Air Force One does not carry anywhere near capacity for a 742 that it has a much longer range than typical 742s. Does anyone know how far AF1 can actually fly?
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:49 pm



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft?

Just because a new-fangled version of something comes out doesn't make the previous versions pieces of useless crap.

There's no need to get a new airframe for an executive aircraft that has all the latest tech goodies and gadgets. Expect to see the existing VC-25A aircraft (what most people incorrectly call "Air Force One") in executive service for at least another 20 years.
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:49 pm



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft? The 200's are getting on in age, and I'm sure the U.S. government would love to help Boeing out in sparking 747NG orders. The last question like this came up in the forums 5 years ago, and speculation suggested the 747-400.

Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?

I'm getting more tired of this subject coming up than I am with questions about NW DC-9's.

No, these aren't aircraft destined to be delivered to the Air Force as SAM aircraft! The current two widebodies in this squadron that are used as Air Force One were both built for the Air Force, and delivered new in 1990 while George Bush Sr. was in office. Eighteen years ago isn't yesterday, but it's not really that long ago either. Especially for a meticulously maintained aircraft with the low hours of these airframes. You've got to figure how much do they actually fly? Probably less then 20 hours per week most of the time? Compare that to a civilian 747.. One of those could log that many hours in two days or less, and most of those the early airline 747-400's are still going strong!

The two current widebodies used as Air Force One have plenty of life left in them. Probably at least 10-15 years. Look how long the 707 executive aircraft remained in service with the Air Force. They were flying for close to forty years before retirement, right up unti the current Bush administrations early years!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:50 pm



Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 3):
Does anyone know how far AF1 can actually fly?

Indefinitely. Midair refueling makes it easy.
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ikramerica
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:58 pm



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 1):
They are not going to be replaced anytime soon because there is no where near the number of cycles that the airframe can handle.

A.net myth number #453: Airforce One replacement is tied to cycles like commercial aircraft, and the government does care how old it is.

By the time 748s would be deliverable as AF1 planes (2 years or so after they come from Boeing) the 742s would be older than the AF1 they replaced when they replaced it. 20 years is a long time for a plane to be the primary AF1 aircraft.

But age alone doesn't dictate the need for a new jet, technological advances do. Could they take each 742 out of service for 12-24 months and retrofit it as a 21st centery jet? Probably, but why? They'll get 748s, put in new technology from the start, transfer interior fittings that are still up to snuff, and move on. The 742Bs may be pressed into service in another role at that point.

Expect lame duck Bush to place the order this year, as he would not be the beneficiary of the jets, a Democrat prez may, so there won't be objections.
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manfredj
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
A.net myth number #453: Airforce One replacement is tied to cycles like commercial aircraft, and the government does care how old it is.

Agreed.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Expect lame duck Bush to place the order this year, as he would not be the beneficiary of the jets, a Democrat prez may, so there won't be objections.

Makes even more sense. I would say the probability of replacing "Air Force One" (VC-125A or 92-9000 or 82-8000 or 23825/685 or 23824/679).....sorry it's Air Force One to the patriotic ones ASSTCHIEF, lies more in the mentaility of the current president rather than "cycles or hours flown." Bush is a big spender, and if I were a betting man, that holds more clout for an argument of replacement than usage.
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hiflyer
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:31 pm

Remember why AF1 was ordered as a 200 and not a 400...which was available then. Built green as either the end of the line or close to it for the classics and flown to Boeing Military in Wichita for buildout.

As I recall ElectroMagnetic Pulse....the Air Force did not want a fly by wire bird for the President back then. Now, hardening against such attacks surely has gotten better and every new bird the military buys is FBW but with midair refueling and such would it make sense to go to a more economical/slower wing and possibly give up some EMP protection for the President?

Back in the late 80's there was also a lot of discussion about the 400 wingspan keeping the President out of certain airports....now long since resolved by commercial traffic and the intro of the 757 into the VIP fleet.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:01 pm



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 6):
Indefinitely. Midair refueling makes it easy.

Not exactly correct. Both VC-25As can fly continually for 72 hours (with aerial refueling)
straight before the 4 GE engines start to seizes. The lubricates are too thin after that point
and needs replacing. I'm reasonably certain the aircraft carries it own lubricates reserves,
but after 3 days of non-stop flying, any aircraft (as well the passengers) has it limits.

Both VC-25As will be the primary presidential transport for many years to come yet.
No replacement aircraft will be ordered in the foreseeable future...certainly not by lame
duck Bush. Only the USAF & the Pentagon (with Congress's consent) has that authority.

Regards.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:13 pm



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft?

No, for a number of reasons:

  • The USAF does not UFO an order. It would be shown as the USAF as the VC-25 and E-4 orders were.
  • Any funding to source a new platform to be Air Force One would be public knowledge due to being a line-item in a Defense Authorization bill.
  • The USAF has put in a formal RFP to Airbus for the A380 Flying Palace to fill the role, so they can't have chosen the 747-8I, much less placed an order.


 wave 
 
redflyer
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:21 am



Quoting Caribb (Reply 2):
which is why they chose the 747-200 variant over the then existing -400 model which had just come onto the market when they were shopping for the 707 replacement.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the original appropriation for the current VC-25's were authorized back in 1985, which would have been before the 747-400 was offered by Boeing.

Quoting Caribb (Reply 2):
Also, a 777 would now be a consideration as well I guess

Personally, I think a slightly smaller plane such as the 777 would be better suited. Definitely more efficient as well as more practical (being able to fly into and out of smaller and more austere fields than those required by a 747).

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 9):
As I recall ElectroMagnetic Pulse....the Air Force did not want a fly by wire bird for the President back then.

I've heard this before and while it might have been a possible consideration, I think the truth lies in the fact that no aircraft of the size the USAF was looking for had FBW technology back in the late 80's. There was no option for FBW back then on a widebody and the only civilian plane on the horizon was the forthcoming A320 and I doubt it would have suited the Prez's needs sufficiently as the primary.
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LimaNiner
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:21 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Expect lame duck Bush to place the order this year,

Unlike what many people like to imply, the President of the United States is not the King of the United States.

Money is spent by the Congress (House of Representatives and the Senate), and is approved by the President. Therefore, "lame duck Bush" (which is what he is) doesn't order anything -- he approves orders placed by the Congress.
 
columba
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:15 am



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft?

I doubt so, the orders are two years old and I doubt that the goverment could keep them a secret for so long without getting trouble with the budget comittee.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
* The USAF has put in a formal RFP to Airbus for the A380 Flying Palace to fill the role, so they can't have chosen the 747-8I, much less placed an order.


Also for the A340-600  Wink
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:22 am



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft? The 200's are getting on in age, and I'm sure the U.S. government would love to help Boeing out in sparking 747NG orders. The last question like this came up in the forums 5 years ago, and speculation suggested the 747-400.

Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?

The current Airforce Ones will not need replaced for years. They are the best maintained aircraft in the world bar none. The 2 private orders are probbly for someone or something else.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:56 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
Also for the A340-600  Wink

Really? Interesting. I knew the A388FP and A388F RFP, but had not heard of an A346 Prestige RFP.
 
columba
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
Really? Interesting. I knew the A388FP and A388F RFP, but had not heard of an A346 Prestige RFP

That was written in the flight global article about the RFP.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:34 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 17):
That was written in the flight global article about the RFP.

Now that you mention it, I do remember that now.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:12 am



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft? The 200's are getting on in age, and I'm sure the U.S. government would love to help Boeing out in sparking 747NG orders. The last question like this came up in the forums 5 years ago, and speculation suggested the 747-400.

Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?

I made a thread about this not too long ago, there were enough 748i orders to replace the Air force ones and the E-4Bs. Everyone shot me down saying the current planes were still young. But it took a long time for the current AF1 to be retrofitted for the president, and since the first delivery of any of the 748s is 2010 it definately could be, but not many others agree with me
 
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:45 pm

The reason I do not agree with you is because such purchases would not be UFOs because a Special Air Mission airframe purchase is not a "black program" kept out of the public knowledge. If the USAF is buying 747-8Is, we'd know about it because the local papers here in Seattle would have reported it when our Congresscritters crowed about voting for it.

Also, the USAF has already noted that the missions of the E-4B are being transferred to the USN's E-6 TACAMO aircraft. If the E-4B remain in service, they will be attached to FEMA and not the USAF (though the USAF will operate them for FEMA).
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:00 am



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft?

No, not even remotely. They might be a couple more of those goofy looking laser equipped 747s

Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
The 200's are getting on in age,

LMAO!! That's funny. Those are probably the two best cared for airplanes in the world. If they aren't in service they are sitting in a hangar with some airman polishing the skin with a cloth diaper.

Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?

No.. The current AF1 airplanes are not even a 747-200. They are a 747-200 body, -300 wings and -400 engines. There is not another airplane like them in the world.

I really wish people would stop beating this dead horse. The first pilot of the next generation AF1 probably hasn't even been born yet. Hell, his (or her) mother is at most in middle school.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
columba
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 21):
They are a 747-200 body, -300 wings and -400 engines.

Never heard that -200 and -300 have different wings ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
redflyer
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:17 pm



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 21):
LMAO!! That's funny. Those are probably the two best cared for airplanes in the world. If they aren't in service they are sitting in a hangar with some airman polishing the skin with a cloth diaper.

So does that mean if AF1 was a DC-3 that was the best cared for airplane in the world and was hand-polished with a diaper it would still suffice as the Presidential transport???  Wink

Regardless of how well-maintained the VC-25's are, the fact is they contain embedded technology that is over 20 years old. It's in the USAF's interests, as well as the White House's, and the Secret Service's, to make sure the Prez, whoever he or she is in the next decade or so, has a very modern and efficient mode of long-range transportation.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 21):
No.. The current AF1 airplanes are not even a 747-200. They are a 747-200 body, -300 wings and -400 engines. There is not another airplane like them in the world.

Interesting. Boeing's website says it's a 747-200B:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/af1/af1spec.html

As far as I know (and I could be wrong) the only difference between the -200 and -200B is increased fuel capacity allowing for longer range.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:58 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
Never heard that -200 and -300 have different wings?

They do not. The 747-300 was a 747-200 with a 7m stretched upper deck. MTOWs and overall dimensions remained identical with the 747-200.

The VC-25 does have the General Electric CF6-80C2B1 engine, which was new for the 747-300 and replaced the CF6-50E2 found on the -200B. The CF6-80C2 is also found on the 747-400.

[Edited 2008-01-14 13:58:28]
 
redflyer
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:05 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):
The 747-300 was a 747-200 with a 7m stretched upper deck. MTOWs and overall dimensions remained identical with the 747-200.

What I find interesting is that the -300 has a slightly higher cruise speed than the earlier versions with the classic uppder deck. As I understand it, this has to do with the airflow around the stretched upper deck.
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XT6Wagon
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:12 am

Stich, I would typically agree with you that it would show up in normal budgets and paperwork... except for this Administration makes everything and anything classified. Its very possible they have moved it to being a "black" program to "enhance the safety of the President of the United States of America". Doomed to the failure of keeping it quiet if they did though since it will quickly become obvious who ordered it when its being built and so on.

Something I think is just as likely is that a company such as Lufthansa Technik received two orders from customers for the planes, and they rolled them into one order from Boeing. After all there is plenty of customers who don't want it yelled about that they are buying this kind of aircraft so they keep other companies names on the paperwork for as long as possible. Which is 1/2 the reason Boeing started the BBJ company, as its a layer of extra protection for these customers so that in the Boeing order sheet it doesn't have "Bob the super-rich A-Hole" for everyone to see.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:07 pm



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 26):
Stich, I would typically agree with you that it would show up in normal budgets and paperwork... except for this Administration makes everything and anything classified. Its very possible they have moved it to being a "black" program to "enhance the safety of the President of the United States of America". Doomed to the failure of keeping it quiet if they did though since it will quickly become obvious who ordered it when its being built and so on.

In theory, yes, however as you note - eventually the plane needs to go to Wichita to be outfitted and that process is going to take years, which gives terrorists plenty of time to prepare for it.

Also, the fact a new Marine One was sourced was not a "State Secret" and that is more vulnerable to attack then Air Force One, so it really doesn't make any sense for the government to push through the purchase as a "black project".

I remain absolutely convinced that none of the 747-8I UFOs on order are for the President or any other member or branch of the US Government. They may be for heads/branches of other states/governments or they are for private concerns.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:09 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 23):
Regardless of how well-maintained the VC-25's are, the fact is they contain embedded technology that is over 20 years old. It's in the USAF's interests, as well as the White House's, and the Secret Service's, to make sure the Prez, whoever he or she is in the next decade or so, has a very modern and efficient mode of long-range transportation.

Right.. When the USAF buys an airplane they never upgrade the comm gear or anything else that gets dated rapidly. It is necessary to throw the entire airplane out every couple of years.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 23):
So does that mean if AF1 was a DC-3 that was the best cared for airplane in the world and was hand-polished with a diaper it would still suffice as the Presidential transport???

I hope that was sarcastic, if not it was pretty asinine
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redflyer
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 28):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 23):
Regardless of how well-maintained the VC-25's are, the fact is they contain embedded technology that is over 20 years old. It's in the USAF's interests, as well as the White House's, and the Secret Service's, to make sure the Prez, whoever he or she is in the next decade or so, has a very modern and efficient mode of long-range transportation.

Right.. When the USAF buys an airplane they never upgrade the comm gear or anything else that gets dated rapidly. It is necessary to throw the entire airplane out every couple of years.

First of all, I specifically used the term "embedded technology", which would exclude things such as comm gear that can be swapped out quickly as the needs and technology changes. However, there are a myriad of other things that cannot be easily swapped out or without significant cost and effort and which are a part of the airframe. Regardless, no one is saying that the primary Presidential aircraft is swapped out every "couple of years". The specs for the current VC-25s were written up in the mid-1980's. Those specs and associated technologies are approaching 25 years in age. We're still several years away from an appropriations bill that would authorize a replacement aircraft and at least 2 - 3 years, minimum, beyond that for construction and delivery of the new aircraft. That would put the current VC-25s over 30 years in age. Hardly "a couple of years". While the armed services have no qualms putting pilots and other personnel in airframes that are over 40 years or more in age, the President is not considered an expendable resource. He/She will end up with the most up-to-date aircraft incorporating the latest technologies to ensure "survivability". While most people, obviously yourself included, think of Presidential aircraft as nothing more than just a means of transportation, their primary purpose is in fact to ensure survivability of the President and the branch of government that is associated with him/her.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 28):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 23):
So does that mean if AF1 was a DC-3 that was the best cared for airplane in the world and was hand-polished with a diaper it would still suffice as the Presidential transport???

I hope that was sarcastic, if not it was pretty asinine

I hope you understand the purpose of emoticons, like the  Wink I put at the end of my comment. If not, I can think of something else that is asinine.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:44 pm

I bet 82-8000's airframe looks better at 30 years then N107's looked at 3.
 
dk1967
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:14 pm

I bet they're actually Air Force Two's ... Dick's got some plane envy issues.  Wink
 
Devilfish
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:17 pm

Here's something for everybody - enjoy.....
New B-747-8BBJ Order? (by KC135TopBoom Jan 16 2008 in Civil Aviation)
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:13 pm

Here's an interesting article hinting around at something from the Wichita Eagle earlier this week:

http://www.kansas.com/101/story/322736.html

Quote:
Air Force One fleet could be replaced here

Boeing Wichita plans to pursue work to replace the Air Force's presidential air transport fleet, which could mean more work for the site than a contract for aerial refuelers.

"That business actually is a larger piece of business for us than the (tanker)," said Derek McLuckey, general manager and operations director of Boeing Integrated Defense Systems Wichita, at a meeting of the Downtown Rotary club on Monday.

If something is going on, it seems a bit premature, but who knows.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:51 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 33):
Here's an interesting article hinting around at something from the Wichita Eagle earlier this week...

The KC-767ADV would have been assembled in PAE, so Wichita would have had a great deal less involvement with the KC-45A then they have with the current KC-767s.

Also, it is likely that when a decision is made to replace the VC-25As, it will be based on the 747-8 or Y3 (though such a new program likely won't be produced for another decade or more, at a minimum) and that modification work will be done at Wichita, just as it was for VC-25A.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:52 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
The KC-767ADV would have been assembled in PAE, so Wichita would have had a great deal less involvement with the KC-45A then they have with the current KC-767s.

I thought they were going to fly them to Wichita green and then do the tanker mods there.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 35):
I thought they were going to fly them to Wichita green and then do the tanker mods there.

No. The 767 line would have been reconfigured to meet IATA requirements and the planes would have been built almost in their entirety in Building 40-24. Some final work might have been done at Wichita, but nothing like was done on the Japanese and Italian KC-767s or the Japanese E-767s.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:06 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
No. The 767 line would have been reconfigured to meet IATA requirements and the planes would have been built almost in their entirety in Building 40-24. Some final work might have been done at Wichita, but nothing like was done on the Japanese and Italian KC-767s or the Japanese E-767s.

In that case, I don't see the KS Congressional delegation getting terribly worked up about this. Thanks for the info.
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:11 pm



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 37):
In that case, I don't see the KS Congressional delegation getting terribly worked up about this. Thanks for the info.

I have read they're annoyed, but not to the level Washington's is.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:43 am



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
Hey everyone, I was browsing through the 747-800 orders and came across 2 private orders. Is it possible that these are slated to become Air Force One aircraft? The 200's are getting on in age, and I'm sure the U.S. government would love to help Boeing out in sparking 747NG orders. The last question like this came up in the forums 5 years ago, and speculation suggested the 747-400.

Side question, were the current Air Force One aircraft used by another carrier before their service with the President?

Very seriously doubt it. I hear they are looking at Antonov, or Mitsubishi.
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astuteman
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:18 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 23):
So does that mean if AF1 was a DC-3 that was the best cared for airplane in the world and was hand-polished with a diaper it would still suffice as the Presidential transport???

So long as it could in-flight refuel....  biggrin 

Regards
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:26 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
The USAF has put in a formal RFP to Airbus for the A380 Flying Palace to fill the role, so they can't have chosen the 747-8I, much less placed an order.

It was not a formal RFP for an A-380VIP and the A-380F. Both were just "informal inquires". The USAF has no program to replace the VC-25s, or the C-5As. Neither replacement airplane is even on the unfunded priorities list.

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
Also for the A340-600

I don't believe there has ever been a USAF inquiry for any version of the A-340. The A-340-500 was mentioned in the RAND tanker study as a (possible) large tanker replacement.
 
Max Q
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:28 am

The 747 400 is not a fly by wire aircraft.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
jetstar
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:13 am



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 6):
Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 3):
Does anyone know how far AF1 can actually fly?

Indefinitely. Midair refueling makes it easy.

From what I have read, although both VC-25’s have in-flight refueling capabilities, neither aircraft has actually been refueled in midair. The VC-25 pilots train and stay proficient on in-flight refueling by flying missions on the E4B aircraft.

The in-flight refueling system is only to be used in case of an emergency when the President is on the road and has to return back to DC and for some reasons cannot land for fuel.
 
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:17 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 43):
The in-flight refueling system is only to be used in case of an emergency when the President is on the road and has to return back to DC and for some reasons cannot land for fuel.

Or in the event the POTUS has to be kept away from ground facilities that might be a potential target for an attack since moving aerial targets are relatively safer.
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Flighty
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:12 am

The VC-25 in perfect condition should last about 35 years in service. Then it will be retired in perfect condition. So that is 17 years from now.

Personally I think it is time for the VC-25s to have a "major interior refitting" so they remain current as of 2008.

As a mechanical platform, we can assume a pristine 747 is going to be reliable past 30 years. With -400 engines, the VC-25 is more efficient than a regular 200B. We do not know the operating weights, but if the VC-25 is lighter than a heavily loaded -200B, its range must surely extend beyond 7000nm. Fuel burn, meanwhile, (which does not matter), is fairly efficient also.

There is nothing mechanically bad about the VC-25. But I imagine its 1990 interior is getting a bit ugly, and technologically out of date. Maybe it is time to dump $100 million or so on the interiors so our President has the best technology and comfort onboard. That is much cheaper than new aircraft. New jets are not mechanically needed.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:30 pm

The last thing they care about on an aircraft that is flown relatively few hours is fuel burn though. Spending a hundred million plus to the get the additional efficiency would have a horrible return on investment. I read that there have been upgrades to electronics and other upgrades are relatively easy to make without starting from scratch.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Next Air Force One An Intercontinental 747?

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:37 pm

28-000 spent a few months in PAE, and I expect it didn't take that long to just re-paint it, exacting as that paint job has to be (no "looks good from 50 feet rule" here.  Smile ). So they were likely doing some other work, as well.

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