PPVRA
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SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:36 pm

"State-owned defence industrial group DENEL CEO Shaun Liebenberg has revealed that the company is engaged in discussions with Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer for risk-sharing partnership in EMBRAER’s new military transport aircraft project, the C-390.

The discussions involve the DENEL group, DENEL’s subsidiary company, DENEL SAAB Aerostructures and the Swedish SAAB group. (DENEl SAAB Aerostructures is currently 80% owned by DENEL with the remaining 20% held by SAAB.)

These three companies are acting as a team in the discussions with the Brazilian group."

More here:
http://www.defesanet.com.br/emb1/c390_za_e.htm
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Devilfish
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:15 am

They would have to complete their discussions soon to catch up with Kawasaki's C-X and the Indo-Russian MTA.....

http://www.mod.go.jp/trdi/topics/img/RO_PC2.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...review-on-multirole-transport.html



http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_MRTA_Irkut-HAL_Takeoff_Concept_lg.jpg
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PPVRA
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:24 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 1):
They would have to complete their discussions soon to catch up with Kawasaki's C-X and the Indo-Russian MTA.....

I thought Japan didn't export military equipment? As for the Indo-Russian MTA, it could be a good competitor, as it wouldn't depend as much on U.S./Western technology because of political reasons.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
GDB
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:44 pm

Indeed PPVRA, Japan's Constitution is very clear on military exports, they don't do it.
If it is wondered why in this case they go to the trouble and cost of making home grown designs for that very limited market, I suspect it's about having an aerospace sector capable of more than just licence building foreign types, raising the capability that can feed through into civil projects.

This new C-390 is certainly a bold move, unexpected until recently too.
 
LMP737
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:55 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 3):
If it is wondered why in this case they go to the trouble and cost of making home grown designs for that very limited market, I suspect it's about having an aerospace sector capable of more than just licence building foreign types, raising the capability that can feed through into civil projects.

National pride probably plays a part as well.
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Devilfish
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:50 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...e-on-embraers-c-390-transport.html

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):

I thought Japan didn't export military equipment?



Quoting GDB (Reply 3):
Indeed PPVRA, Japan's Constitution is very clear on military exports, they don't do it.

Remember that Kawasaki was planning an even more capable 37-ton commercial version for the end of this decade. How difficult would it be for its buyers to switch it to military applications after delivery if they see the need? Doubt Kawasaki would intentionally hurt the plane's chances in the market with the sales contracts restricting the ways their customers could use those - as I also doubt that huge business conglomerate being very fastidious about who is a genuine commercial customer. Nor do I expect their politicians to get in the way of a lucrative export transaction.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-freighter-from-c-x-airlifter.html

Quote:
"Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI) plans to manufacture a commercial freighter derivative of its military C-X airlifter, potentially pitching it into competition against its US partner Boeing. KHI's aerospace division confirms that although its first priority is to complete the military aircraft, work on a commercial version is planned towards the end of this decade.

The C-X is a medium-sized high-wing military transport aircraft equipped with a rear-loading ramp and powered by General Electric CF6-80C2 engines. It is being developed to replace Japan's ageing fleet of Kawasaki C-1 and Lockheed Martin C-130 airlifter. The military version has a payload of 26t, which will increase to about 37t for the commercial model."


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ake-commercial-cargo-aircraft.html

Good for Embraer that there are still issues with the C-X and work on the variant won't be started till at least 2010.

[Edited 2008-01-18 21:53:28]
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keesje
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:01 pm

Everybody is jumping into the enormous C130 / An-12 20,000 kg (44,000 lb) replacement market.

Embraer tested the water (market) for the C-390 a year and got big "yeah do me xty quick" in return.

They are working hard on it since then, launch seems a formality..


source: http://sistemadearmas.sites.uol.com.br/ca/macx01c390.html

The wings / engines / systems should be from the E190, as well as other components.
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F27Friendship
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:40 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
The wings / engines / systems should be from the E190, as well as other components.

please note that this will be a high-wing configuration other than the E190, which generates rather different loadcases. They certainly will not be able to put the wings of the E190 straight on it.
 
PPVRA
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RE: SAAB, Denel In Talks With Embraer (C-390)

Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 5):

Remember that Kawasaki was planning an even more capable 37-ton commercial version for the end of this decade. How difficult would it be for its buyers to switch it to military applications after delivery if they see the need? Doubt Kawasaki would intentionally hurt the plane's chances in the market with the sales contracts restricting the ways their customers could use those - as I also doubt that huge business conglomerate being very fastidious about who is a genuine commercial customer. Nor do I expect their politicians to get in the way of a lucrative export transaction.

The question is - would Japan allow parts replacement export if the aircraft is being used for military purposes? That's a likely no IMO, and also a risk that air forces world wide might not be willing to take. They could sell it for commercial purposes but if it is converted, then it might become an issue and the flow of parts come to a halt.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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