rheinwaldner
Posts: 1352
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
Will the Swiss vote for this proposal this time around?

That is not yet decided. Even if the parliament decides to avoid a vote, it is possible (if not likely), that a sufficient number of people (100000) will sign to enforce a popular vote anyway.

The plans already face a stiff headwind among many people here.

As the Swiss requirements are only air defence, I wonder whether there is no other option than to buy new aircraft every 30 years. Why am I asking?

For pure air defence you need much less than e.g. offered by the F-35. In one sense you need primarily a good airframe, that does not break apart after only some thousands flight hours. The 6000 hours of the F/A-18 are a bit disappointing IMO. If the structure would not get so weak after that time, the fighters would be fit for purpose much longer (in an air defence role). I also wonder why the F-5 keeps flying since the seventies, and for the F/A-18 (flying since the nineties) a replacement would be needed much earlier.

Maybe Switzerland should go for a good number of F-16s (either used or refurbished) or think a second time, how far we could get doing an Elbit upgrade with the Tigers.

All these thoughts from the perspective, how to convince a skeptical nation from the needed spendings....
 
angad84
Posts: 1936
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:00 am

Obsolescence management is also a thing. Sometimes it is expensive to sustain an airframe even with lots of fatigue life left.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 am

The F/A-18 can have it's life extended through a centre barrel replacement (the centre barrel is the major limiting component on the F/A-18's fatigue life) and structural inspections. A number of F/A-18 users have already done that work; Canada, the USN, the USMC, and Australia have all done centre barrel replacements on a number of F/A-18's.

The process isn't cheap; it's a $2-2.5 million USD per aircraft cost to do so. But it does significantly extend the life of the aircraft.
 
angad84
Posts: 1936
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:09 pm

That's still cheaper than buying an all-new fleet, although like I said, sustainment costs of the entire Legacy Hornet fighter system into the 2020s is a question mark. Maybe if the Swiss went and called dibs on all dead and/or dying Bugs in the world, and primed the electronics/avionics supply chain for the planned life of their Hornet fleet as necessary they might be able to swing it.

An air-defence-only fleet should be quite doable in the budget they want, assuming that it is ONLY basic procurement cost (flyaways, weapons, MILCON and not much else)
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 5840
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:23 pm

Something like an FA-50 would be enough for Switzerland.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5182
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:08 pm

How about the F-35B?

We could hide them in all the little valleys we have. :box:

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
rheinwaldner
Posts: 1352
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:29 am

ThePointblank wrote:
The F/A-18 can have it's life extended through a centre barrel replacement (the centre barrel is the major limiting component on the F/A-18's fatigue life) and structural inspections. A number of F/A-18 users have already done that work; Canada, the USN, the USMC, and Australia have all done centre barrel replacements on a number of F/A-18's.

The process isn't cheap; it's a $2-2.5 million USD per aircraft cost to do so. But it does significantly extend the life of the aircraft.

So that seems to be right thing to do.

seahawk wrote:
Something like an FA-50 would be enough for Switzerland.

Is it good at all-weather? Is the radar at least similar to what the F/A-18 has? Is it in any meaningful way better than the F-5?
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 5840
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:18 am

That is just a question of Avionics installed. The ELTA 2032 should be sufficient and you can surely add an IRST to the frame. If the 2032 seems a bit dated the AESA Elta 2052 is more or less a drop in alternative as Columbian Kfirs show.
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 5753
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Swiss RFP For Fighter By End May.

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:16 pm

seahawk wrote:
The ELTA 2032 should be sufficient and you can surely add an IRST to the frame. If the 2032 seems a bit dated the AESA Elta 2052 is more or less a drop in alternative as Columbian Kfirs show.

Wouldn't KAI's agreement with LM still preclude the use on the FA-50 of such an advanced radar for any export sale beyond what was installed (now being replaced) in the RoKAF's F-16s?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bengan and 11 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos