TedTAce
Topic Author
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V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:45 am

Ok, I'm sure I can find this somewhere, but I'm feeling really lazy.

Are the 'props' that provide the V-22 it's propulsion called "props" or are they called "rotors"?

That being answered... Are they lighted?

I saw an Osprey on approach to KTYS earlier (just a bit after sunset) and I would swear there are lights on the tips. It would have made an awesome shot had I had my camera  Sad
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ShyFlyer
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:04 am

While I can't answer the prop or rotor question (I've wondered that myself) I think I can answer this one:

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
That being answered... Are they lighted?

I think what you are seeing is the reflection of the nav lights on the props/rotors.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:25 am



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 1):
I think what you are seeing is the reflection of the nav lights on the props/rotors.

That's what I DESPERATELY wanted to believe when I first saw it, but the lights made complete circles, even behind where there should have been a shadow behind the engines.
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Nite92
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:37 am



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
That's what I DESPERATELY wanted to believe when I first saw it, but the lights made complete circles, even behind where there should have been a shadow behind the engines.

I can't be sure, but I'm pretty sure they have blade tip lights. I know the VH-60's and CH-53E's I worked on had them, but we didn't always use them. Makes it easier to see the rotor arc at night and in poor weather conditions.
 
zanl188
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:59 pm

Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
AirRyan
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:38 pm

As a former Marine CH-46 tech I always referred to them as "prop-rotors" but they didn't quite have the sh¡t together back around the turn of the millenium when I was in so I really didn't get to spend a whole lot of time around them; technically they are much closer to a helicopter's rotors than they are an airplanes "propellers." I've had the good fortune of being able to log a couple hours in the level-D MV-22 sim and everyone around there always referred to them as "prop-rotors" so hey, who knows?
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
That's what I DESPERATELY wanted to believe when I first saw it, but the lights made complete circles, even behind where there should have been a shadow behind the engines.

Curious.  scratchchin  The guys & gals from the 71st SOC @ Kirtland do a lot of night training at my local field, and the only light I've seen on them is the nav lights.

Quoting Nite92 (Reply 3):
I know the VH-60's and CH-53E's I worked on had them, but we didn't always use them.

I never even new such a thing existed. Cool!
I lift things up and put them down.
 
CTR
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:02 am



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
Are the 'props' that provide the V-22 it's propulsion called "props" or are they called "rotors"?

People will always call them what they want.

But technically speaking, regardless of size or number of blades:

If it has a swashplate or other means to adjust blade pitch individually, it is a rotor.

If blade pitch can only be adjusted uniformly on all blades simultaneously, it's a propeller.

Have fun,

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
KevinSmith
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
As a former Marine CH-46 tech I always referred to them as "prop-rotors"

As per the USMC, Osprey selectees go through the tilt-rotor program after primary. They do both rotor rotary training at NSE and multi engine at Corpus.
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
AirRyan
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:14 am



Quoting KevinSmith (Reply 8):
As per the USMC, Osprey selectees go through the tilt-rotor program after primary. They do both rotor rotary training at NSE and multi engine at Corpus.

I wonder how WN would classify V-22 flight time for those who may wish to continue their careers at an airline (their really picky on how they rate flight time) but if I were a budding Marine aviator in primary flight time I'd probably put the Hornet one (what self respecting "pilot" wouldn't?) and the Osprey at number two with the C-130 at three (great flight time for the majors).

The Osprey and it's broad flight envelope offers a really unique opportunity and it with it's outstanding modern flight deck it really reduces a lot of the pilot's workload despite the tilt-rotor flight envelope; at the end of just two short hours I felt really comfortable in the sim with it.
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:26 am

Great responses on the prop V rotor part, but does anyone know if the rotors have tip lights?
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dragon6172
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:18 am

http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/v22/tilttimes/oct-b-00.pdf

Read page four article titled "Post OPEVAL modifications to LOT I aircraft begin". It mentions that some of the modifications include blade tip lights and formation lights improvements, so I can assume that the V-22 has them.

I can tell you as a former CH-46 crew chief that there are plenty of helo's that have blade tip lights. I know on a H-46 you didnt always see them from the ground because they are more on the top edge of the tip cap, so when there is any sort of pitch on the blades you just aren't at the angle to see them. We never kept them that bright either, believe me the NVG's picked them up on a dim setting just fine. We required at least one of three per rotor head to be working for night ops, although sometimes we fudged that. The wires that powered the light ran the length of the blade, sometimes they would break and avionics could do nothing about it except tell us to change the blade (which brings a whole pain of tracking and balancing the aircraft). We would just put an aircraft that had inop tip lights at the back of the formation so none of the pilots had to fly formation off of it.

I think at home I have some video clips of NVG ops where you can see some blade tip lights. I will see if I can post them for ya.
Phrogs Phorever
 
Nite92
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:26 am



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 11):
The wires that powered the light ran the length of the blade, sometimes they would break and avionics could do nothing about it except tell us to change the blade (which brings a whole pain of tracking and balancing the aircraft)

OMG, how I hated setting VATS up and doing all that. It never failed, you'd always have one blade that would take you ever in a million years to track and balance...then again...there were times....you'd get a first time go...and wonder WTF. LOL
 
AirRyan
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:10 am



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
Great responses on the prop V rotor part, but does anyone know if the rotors have tip lights?

Yes, there are there - turn the lights out and all you literally see are two side by side round prop arcs and a beacon if you want it on; pretty cool.
 
dragon6172
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:48 am



Quoting Nite92 (Reply 12):
OMG, how I hated setting VATS up and doing all that. It never failed, you'd always have one blade that would take you ever in a million years to track and balance...then again...there were times....you'd get a first time go...and wonder WTF. LOL

Let me tell you, I came in about the time the Chadwick 8500 system was coming online. No more strobex, just a camera mounted on the tunneling. Then came DCC-81, made all of the blades exactly the same (not sure if you recall there were A blades, B blades, and AB blades). Even then you would occasionally get a set of blades on a plane that just did not want to fly together smoothly. Ten years later when I was getting out they were installing AIMS, pretty nice because all of the test equipment was hard mounted to the aircraft, camera included! Pilots ran track and balance, engine plots, engine trim set up, high speed shaft balancing, it was all run through the pilots CDNU. Still, tracking and balancing the ol Phrogs could be a pain in the ass!!
Phrogs Phorever
 
Nite92
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:45 am



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 14):
Let me tell you, I came in about the time the Chadwick 8500 system was coming online. No more strobex, just a camera mounted on the tunneling. Then came DCC-81, made all of the blades exactly the same (not sure if you recall there were A blades, B blades, and AB blades). Even then you would occasionally get a set of blades on a plane that just did not want to fly together smoothly. Ten years later when I was getting out they were installing AIMS, pretty nice because all of the test equipment was hard mounted to the aircraft, camera included! Pilots ran track and balance, engine plots, engine trim set up, high speed shaft balancing, it was all run through the pilots CDNU. Still, tracking and balancing the ol Phrogs could be a pain in the ass!!

When I got out, they were *just* bringing the AIMS system online for the Phrogs and Sh*tters. I spent most of my time with DCC-81. I only worked on Phrogs for around 7 months, before I was kicked into the Presidental mission. Moved over to the other side of the fence and continued to mount and unmount all those freakin sensors on the H-3s and H-60s. Because of the mission, we couldn't perminately mount the hardware on the aircraft like AIMs, even though they had figured out a way to do it at PAX. *shrug*
 
CTR
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:24 am

Check out the attached site for a photo of the V-22 rotor blade tip lights.

http://www.dailyaviator.com/?p=1558

Have fun,

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
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vzlet
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:22 pm

"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
Rotorimage
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RE: V-22 Propulsion Name Convention/Question

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:56 pm

The correct terminology for the V-22's thrust/lift producing devices are "proprotors." Each proprotor blade is designated as a right or left since they spin in opposite directions and hence have opposite twist. They also have dedicated proprotor gearboxes that are side specific (one of them has an extra spur gear to make it turn in the opposite direction.)

All the blades have LED lights on the top and bottom that are dimmable and selectable for overt or NVG ops. The above photo depicts them (obviously) in the overt position.

Compared to most other lit blades, the overt position is VERY bright.

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