swiftski
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US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:05 pm

Sky News:

US Alert Over Russian Bombers
Updated:22:56, Monday February 11, 2008

US fighter jets have been scrambled after two Russian bombers buzzed a US aircraft carrier in the Western Pacific.

The TU-95 Bear bombers flew over at an altitude of 2,000ft.
 
pjflysfast
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:23 pm

Happens more than you think. We still check each other out.
 
474218
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:44 pm



Quoting Swiftski (Thread starter):
US fighter jets have been scrambled after two Russian bombers buzzed a US aircraft carrier in the Western

I sure hope the fighters were scramble long before the two Russian bombers buzzed the carrier! After all they do have radar on the carriers that should be able to spot the bombers before they even get close.
 
sprout5199
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:25 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 2):
sure hope the fighters were scramble long before the two Russian bombers buzzed the carrier! After all they do have radar on the carriers that should be able to spot the bombers before they even get close.

There should have been an Aegis cruiser/destroyer near by. They would have picked it up about 200 miles if it was at a decent height.

Dan in Jupiter
 
474218
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:34 am



Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 3):
There should have been an Aegis cruiser/destroyer near by. They would have picked it up about 200 miles if it was at a decent height.

My point exactly.
 
AirRyan
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:50 am



Quoting PJFlysFast (Reply 1):
Happens more than you think. We still check each other out.

Too bad the Russians are too poor to crew their own carrier so we could buzz them; I like what McCain says in trying to oust Russia from the G-8 - they are nor have they ever been an ally to the West.

Not terribly impressed with the Super Hornet (versus what the ol' GE Powered Tomcats could do) took off when the bombers were 500 miles out and didn't get to them until they were 50 miles out of the Nimitz - that kind of stuff wasn't even allowed in Top Gun!

Quote:

US Navy 'buzzed' by Russian bombers


US fighter planes intercepted two Russian bombers flying unusually close to an American aircraft carrier in the western Pacific during the weekend, it has emerged.

A US military official said that one Russian Tupolev 95 flew past the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz twice, at a low altitude of about 2,000 feet, while another bomber circled about 50 nautical miles away.

The incident on Saturday, which never escalated beyond the flyover, comes amid heightened tensions between the US and Russia over US plans for a missile defence system based in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Such Russian bomber flights were common during the Cold War, but this is the first time Russian Tupolevs have flown over or interacted with a US carrier since 2004.

The bombers were among four Russian Tupolev 95s launched from Ukrainka in the middle of the night, including one that Japanese officials say violated their country's airspace over an uninhabited island south of Tokyo.

US officials tracked and monitored the bombers as two flew south along the Japanese coast, and two others flew further east, coming closer to the Nimitz and the guided missile cruiser USS Princeton.

As the bombers got about 500 miles out from the US ships, four F/A-18 fighters were launched from the Nimitz, the official said.

The fighters intercepted the Russian bombers about 50 miles south of the Nimitz.

At least two US fighters trailed the bomber as it came in low over the Nimitz twice, while one or two of the other US fighters followed the second bomber as it circled.

The official said there were no verbal communications between the US and the Russians, and the Pentagon has not heard of any protests being filed by the United States. Historically, diplomatic protests were not filed in such incidents because they were so common during the Cold War era.

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hF5yBodhqh9P_F4ANpuHsafAHzhQ

Seems like they got the JASDF to respond, too...

Quote:
Russian bombers flew over US aircraft carrier: official


WASHINGTON (AFP) — A pair of Russian TU-95 Bear bombers overflew a US aircraft carrier in the western Pacific at an altitude of 2,000 feet (660 meters) over the weekend, prompting US fighter jets to scramble, a US defense official said Monday.

Four F-18 fighters jets intercepted the Russian bombers Saturday morning, but not before they had overflown the USS Nimitz, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Japanese F-15 fighters had earlier scrambled to intercept another pair of Bear bombers, and escorted them out of the area, said a US military official who asked not to be identified.

The Japanese government issued a strong protest with Moscow, but Russian officials denied their aircraft had crossed into Japanese airspace.

The second pair of bombers were flying south of Japan when they "essentially turned inbound toward the USS Nimitz, and USS Nimitz aircraft launched and intercepted the bombers," said the defense official.

The US F-18s escorted the bombers until they departed the area, the official said.

"There were no verbal communications between the Nimitz aircraft or the Russian aircraft," the official said.

The official said one of the Russian bombers flew directly over the US carrier at an altitude of 2,000 feet, while the second bomber flew at its side at the same altitude.

The incident comes at a time when Russia is reviving the long-range air patrols that were once a standard feature of the Cold War.

It was the second time since July 2004 that a Russian Bear bomber has overflown a US aircraft carrier.

That incident involved the USS Kitty Hawk in the Sea of Japan.

The Nimitz, which was on a routine patrol in the western Pacific at the time of the incident, was back Monday in port in Sasebo, Japan, the official said.

It was not immediately known whether the United States issued any protests with the Russians.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates met with Russia's deputy premier the following day on the sidelines of an international security conference in Munich.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gThybp_Fcvg9QqECFfEoFOKqn8QA

Quote:
Japan says Russian plane violated airspace, Russia denies

MOSCOW, February 9 (RIA Novosti) - Japan's Defense Ministry said Saturday a Russian bomber briefly violated the country's airspace early in the morning, but Russia denied the reports, saying its Air Force flight was in line with international regulations.

The Japanese Foreign Ministry issued a protest to the Russian embassy in Tokyo over the alleged incident with a Tu-95 Bear strategic bomber taking place over the Sofugan pinnacle several hundred miles south of Tokyo which prompted 24 Japanese fighters, including F-15s, to take off.

But the Russian Air Force denied the reports. "Our strategic aviation aircraft did not violate Japan's airspace," deputy commander Lt. Gen. Igor Sadofyev said.

Earlier today, Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky, an aide to the Air Force commander, said Russia's Tu-95 bombers successfully completed a more than 10-hour-long patrol flight over the Pacific.

"The strategic aviation flight was in line with the plan and in strict compliance with international regulations on the use of airspace over neutral waters, without violating the borders of other states," he said.

Russia and Japan have contested the ownership of the Kuril Islands for over 60 years, a dispute that has kept the two countries from signing a formal peace treaty after World War II.

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_...olated-airspace-Russia-denies.html
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:28 am

The Russians are playing a dangerous game again. Only this time it's not the cold war (ie: no one fears them anymore). And if something happens and shots are fired, they are going to pay for their arrogance.
Go Trojans! Fight On!
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:33 am

And "highly respected" BBC has the following headline:
"Russian jets intercepted by US". No comment.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7240197.stm

BEG2IAH
 
Flighty
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:44 am

Dude, get a jet, guys, seriously.  Smile

They party like it's 1959. Castro could get down with that.. go bother him.

But I gotta say, that shows some balls. You have to have large balls to buzz a Nimitz class carrier group, I do not care what you are flying.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:41 am

Is Putin trying to make Russia appear more powerfull than they really are here. From what I understand thier airforce was cut to the bone during the years when their economy was in trouble and altough they have boosted spending recently they're starting from a pretty low base.

Currently they are no match for the US (although that may change in the future)
 
AGC525
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:03 pm



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
Not terribly impressed with the Super Hornet

Gee, it would have been nice to have a true fleet defender for instances like this. Perhaps with AWG-9 radar and a platform for the AIM-54.  Smile
American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:34 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
But I gotta say, that shows some balls. You have to have large balls to buzz a Nimitz class carrier group...

I don't think any balls are needed here. Having a look from international air space on a ship in international water, all what is needed is a fifty years old four engined propeller plane which hasn't cracked apart yet. Maybe some inferiority complex helps as well.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
sprout5199
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 6):
The Russians are playing a dangerous game again.

Not real "dangerous". Just makes the higher ups worry. Its good training for the pilots and crews of the ships. Everyone is professional about these things.

Dan in Jupiter
 
checksixx
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:45 pm



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
Not terribly impressed with the Super Hornet (versus what the ol' GE Powered Tomcats could do) took off when the bombers were 500 miles out and didn't get to them until they were 50 miles out of the Nimitz - that kind of stuff wasn't even allowed in Top Gun!

Think real hard about your comments...they launched, most likely into an established CAP zone (50 miles) around the carrier, and conducted the intercept when the aircraft reached that zone. The bomber was what...500 miles out? So around 1 hour give or take roughly 20 minutes depending on cruise speed. Yup...that makes sense. So what was the problem with the Super Hornet again???  box 
 
ebj1248650
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 12):
Not real "dangerous". Just makes the higher ups worry. Its good training for the pilots and crews of the ships. Everyone is professional about these things.

Dan in Jupiter

I understand the Russians are trying to get the western world to take them seriously again; to gain some credibility so far as their military capabilities are concerned. Getting back into the electronic and photo surveilance scene again would, at the least, make their air force more visible to potential opponents and would gain the attention of the world press. That's what they want ... to be seen and considered a viable military force. Seems to be working too.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:42 pm



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 14):
I understand the Russians are trying to get the western world to take them seriously again; to gain some credibility so far as their military capabilities are concerned.

Yeah, you may be right. But to me it looks rather primitive. Like the intellectually inferior bully of an elementary school class.

But I think that it is mostly for internal use. Russia suffered a terrible downturn when the Soviet Union collapsed and Yeltsin let the oligarchs steal all values in the country. Social, intellectual and welfare is progressing at a slow rate, and to hide those incapabilities they have to make a show out of what they still can do. And that includes to fly around with some 2nd generation hardware of what the German Junckers technicians showed them 60 years ago.

Russia came out of communism in a totally different way compared to the rest of east- and central Europe. While central Europe expelled the communist regimes and elected capable people for governance, then the "old gang" in Russia just changed attitude to the better. But they kept more or less the same incapable people in power, and do it until this very day.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
flybulldog
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:53 pm



Quote:
As the bombers got about 500 miles out from the US ships, four F/A-18 fighters were launched from the Nimitz, the official said.

The fighters intercepted the Russian bombers about 50 miles south of the Nimitz.

The fighters were launched when the bombers got 500 miles out but didn't intercept until 50 miles??????
 
Cruiser
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting Flybulldog (Reply 16):
The fighters were launched when the bombers got 500 miles out but didn't intercept until 50 miles??????

Was there a procedural reason for it taking them so long?
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MCIGuy
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:14 pm

Whatever their intentions, if they'd have been carrying AS ordnance the Nimitz could have been in real trouble. Whatever it really is, it has to be taken seriously. Even if they're not really trying to start something, it's always a bad idea to dismiss it as so.

Quoting Adm. Gary Roughead:
"You know, it's not prudent to fly over an aircraft carrier," he said at another point. "But our situational awareness is such that, as I said, we had good detection, followed them in, and, in my mind, it's not something to go to general quarters over."

I guess they really couldn't do much if they had Bugs on them. They could have been toast pretty fast if they even opened their bays. Any external AS load would probably at least get them locked up and possibly fired on.
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highlander0
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:57 pm



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
Too bad the Russians are too poor to crew their own carrier so we could buzz them

Too poor?!
#1 link to PpRUNE forum (with video).
#2 with a fair bit of info (pg 4, last photo!!).

(sorry, but I remembered reading it on there first)

A NOTAM was enforced for the exercise out in the Atlantic. The carrier group also led to helicopter ops being stopped and disrupted.
 
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csturdiv
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:10 pm

I wonder if the pictures from the Foxnews.com article are from the actual event?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330362,00.html
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
dragon6172
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:14 pm



Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 20):
I wonder if the pictures from the Foxnews.com article are from the actual event?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,....html

That picture just get timed perfectly or do the Ruskies shut engines down on long range cruise flights? (#4 engine)
Phrogs Phorever
 
AirRyan
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:12 am



Quoting AGC525 (Reply 10):
Gee, it would have been nice to have a true fleet defender for instances like this. Perhaps with AWG-9 radar and a platform for the AIM-54.

AMRAAM+ and AESA radar are just fine, but a GE Tomcat's extra thrust, less drag, and higher top end would have been nice.

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 13):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
Not terribly impressed with the Super Hornet (versus what the ol' GE Powered Tomcats could do) took off when the bombers were 500 miles out and didn't get to them until they were 50 miles out of the Nimitz - that kind of stuff wasn't even allowed in Top Gun!

Think real hard about your comments...they launched, most likely into an established CAP zone (50 miles) around the carrier, and conducted the intercept when the aircraft reached that zone. The bomber was what...500 miles out? So around 1 hour give or take roughly 20 minutes depending on cruise speed. Yup...that makes sense. So what was the problem with the Super Hornet again???

Letting an unintentioned Russian bomber get within 100nm of your CVN sounds unwise, let alone 50nm.

 
BladeLWS
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:53 am



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 22):
Letting an unintentioned Russian bomber get within 100nm of your CVN sounds unwise, let alone 50nm.

If they made a wrong move the cruisers and destroyers would of taken them out with Standard missiles before they could blink an eye.
 
RC135U
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:35 am



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 15):
And that includes to fly around with some 2nd generation hardware of what the German Junckers technicians showed them 60 years ago.

Actually the Tu-95 and the B-52 have a common ancestor - the B-29. The Russians were able to reverse engineer the B-29 design using several of the bombers which landed in Soviet territory after raids on Japan, and the Tu-95 is a descendant of that aircraft. Also, if memory serves, I think there were some new-build Tu-95s produced perhaps 20 years ago.
 
sovietjet
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:47 am

Russia has about 60 Tu-95MS bombers. These are 80s production airframes so not too old. Add in the Tu-160s and Tu-22Ms and the bomber force isn't exactly weak. Sure not as big as the USA but still second in the world if anything.
 
Flighty
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:53 am



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 11):
I don't think any balls are needed here. Having a look from international air space on a ship in international water,

!! Whatever. Although, it does make sense that we are talking about young military men, much in common on both sides, just checking each other's EQP out. The Bear is pretty cool and so is a Nimitz. So everybody got a good show, in peace.

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 23):
If they made a wrong move the cruisers and destroyers would of taken them out with Standard missiles before they could blink an eye.

True dat! Def presents a small dilemma for the Nimitz commanders however. They do not want to risk the ship (i.e., allow the Bear in range), but they sort of have to. So it's uncomfortable. I imagine.
 
co777er
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:54 am



Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 23):
If they made a wrong move the cruisers and destroyers would of taken them out with Standard missiles before they could blink an eye.

Heck, at 2000ft. msl, they could of used the Phalanx(CWIS).
 
checksixx
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:47 pm



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 22):
Letting an unintentioned Russian bomber get within 100nm of your CVN sounds unwise, let alone 50nm.

Well we are not in a state of war with them, we are in international waters (they in international airspace)...being monitored by fighters...what would you do?? Create an international incident? Inadvertly start a war? Boy you would have had your hands full over the years with all those incidents/wars!! No...this was handled in accordance to our ROE's and tactics...and handled VERY well I must say.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:04 pm

Quoting RC135U (Reply 24):
Actually the Tu-95 and the B-52 have a common ancestor - the B-29.

"Ancestor", yes. And sure the B-29 was reverse engineered as the Tu-4. But there was hardly any design features or technology carried over from B-29 (or Tu-4) to Tu-20 or Tu-95.

On the other hand the Junkers Ju 287 was directly responsible for the false start with the OKB-1 EF 140...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_287
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKB-1_EF_140

...while the Junkers EF 132 sure gave a lot away to the Tu-16...
http://www.luft46.com/junkers/juef132.html

And the Tu-95 (Tu-20) was a heavy, long range development based on Tu-16 experience.

The Tu-4 was an ancestor, but not a grandfather.

Same way the B-29 is not a grandfather of the B-52.

On the other hand the Tu-95 could maybe owe a lot to early B-52 projects. Plans for a US fast, long range, heavy bomber progressed slowly while a thousand B-47 were hastily put into service. And while there was disagreements within the USAF whether the Convair B-36 could be modified to fill the long range need. It wasn't until the P&W J57 showed sign to become a reliable engine that the bold decision was made to halt large turboprop development and put jets on the B-52. Some early B-52 projects (especially project 464-35) looked a lot like the Tu-95. There could have been some intelligence at work.

[Edited 2008-02-13 12:10:32]
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
BladeLWS
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:05 pm



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 27):
Heck, at 2000ft. msl, they could of used the Phalanx(CWIS).

True, but the .50 cal close in defense weapons would be been more sporting.  Wink
 
AirRyan
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:47 pm



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 28):
Well we are not in a state of war with them, we are in international waters (they in international airspace)...being monitored by fighters...what would you do?? Create an international incident? Inadvertly start a war? Boy you would have had your hands full over the years with all those incidents/wars!! No...this was handled in accordance to our ROE's and tactics...and handled VERY well I must say.

Oh I'd have followed the ROE's just as well but would have Lt. Wong-Way'd their asses had they so much as opened their bomb doors.

I'd like to think those Super Hornets at least tested out the Russian RWR's for them so the Russian Bear crews were well reminded of who was calling the shots - I wonder what the new tone for the -9X's sound like? If your going to buzz one of my carriers that's the least I could do.
 
sprout5199
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:22 am



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 31):
I'd like to think those Super Hornets at least tested out the Russian RWR's for them so the Russian Bear crews were well reminded of who was calling the shots - I wonder what the new tone for the -9X's sound like? If your going to buzz one of my carriers that's the least I could do.

That is taking the next step. Locking on is like pointing a gun at a cop. You don't lock on unless there is a definite threat. A Bear approaching from 500 miles away is not a threat. The EW sensors on the ships would know if the Bears radars are in a "search" or "track/lock-on" mode. Both sides are pro's, and they know how the game is played.

Dan in Jupiter
 
celestar
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:06 am

Wanting to clarify a few points as I am confused?
Did anyone know if the Tu95 actually fly past the US carrier? Or is it flying low and near-by ?
I would be very surprised if Tu95 actually flown over the US carrier.
Reading on all the links I am just not too sure if I am reading right!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:51 am



Quoting Celestar (Reply 33):
I would be very surprised if Tu95 actually flown over the US carrier.

Why? It's completely legal to do so in international waters.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Stickers
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:01 am

Well, it must have been a nice sight and sound anyway. Well done to all concerned for following procedures and remaining professional. I imagine such incidents break monotony and can be quite a highlight for personnel who have to respond.
 
dl767captain
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:09 am

Would this be considered an "act of aggression"? it seems like seeing bombers coming in and telling them to turn away and when they don't listen they could be shot down.... i'm just saying some day a russian plane will get shot at and they'll be all pissed off when it's there fault
 
sovietjet
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:09 am



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 36):
Would this be considered an "act of aggression"? it seems like seeing bombers coming in and telling them to turn away and when they don't listen they could be shot down.... i'm just saying some day a russian plane will get shot at and they'll be all pissed off when it's there fault

No, why would it be. They technically have no right to tell it to "turn away". It's international airspace, if the Tu-95 chooses to fly right over the carrier it will and there's nothing that can be done about it besides to escort it with fighters. Now if the Tu-95 is painting or targeting the ship then that can be counted as "aggresive" but Tu-95s are not meant for anti-ship operations.
 
Lumberton
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:15 pm



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 37):
but Tu-95s are not meant for anti-ship operations.

But the TU-142s are.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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ptrjong
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RE: US Alert Over Russian Bombers

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:55 am

Don't you 'buzz' at 200 ft, rather than 2,000 ft?

And are we quite sure a US P-3 would never overfly a Russian naval squadron in mid-ocean like this?
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)

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