kaitak
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Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:21 pm

A Boeing official said that the "at risk" C-17 would have a good year this year, with top-up purchases by the UK and US, as well as a first order from NATO and also from another "undisclosed nation". Wonder what that might be? Israel? Japan? S Korea? Saudi Arabia?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ts-good-year-for-at-risk-c-17.html

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Lumberton
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:28 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Wonder what that might be?

France.  duck 
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:40 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
France.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli Air Force bought a small fleet of them. I fully expect the U.S. Air Force to order 20+.
NATO surely needs the C-17's strategic airlift capability.
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:44 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Israel? Japan? S Korea? Saudi Arabia?

Out of the ones you've mentioned, Japan has been mentioned as having a real interest. All of the UKUSA countries (except NZ) already have the C-17.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
connies4ever
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:21 am

It's possible Germany could go for 2, I don't believe they are part of the NATO consortium. An outside chance Canada would order a 5th, esp. if Afghani ops continue until end 2011 or later, as now seems likely.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:36 am

I thought Norway was interested in the C-17, too.

Keesje, any truth to the rumor EADS/Airbus is secretly buying 15 BC-17s to move A-400M parts around?
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:08 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
and also from another "undisclosed nation

Although it is doubtful I hope it is Germany !! The A400M is delayed and the C160s getting worn out more and more.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I thought Norway was interested in the C-17, too.

I think it was Sweden shortyl after the big Tsunami.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:16 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 6):
think it was Sweden shortyl after the big Tsunami.

Correct,Sweden has, i belive the oldest Herks still flying today  Yeah sure . To present day a dont know what will replace the herks.... C-17 is a bit much for us i think,but it would be nice. I would love 4-5 A400 and a couple of C-17 Big grin
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F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:56 pm



Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
I wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli Air Force bought a small fleet of them

but what would they do with it? they don't go global and their area of operation is quite small.
 
r2rho
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:27 pm

Here's the link on Aviation Week:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Apparently they said a country, not an organization - that woud rule out NATO or the UN.

In any case, there's good reason to believe it'll be a good year - with the cancelling of the modernization program for the C-5A's, the only alternative left is to buy more C-17s.
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 8):
but what would they do with it? they don't go global and their area of operation is quite small.

I dunno, I didn't say they would, but I said I wouldn't be surprised. They seem to take all the best available. Your points are valid and I was thinking the same thing when I posted.
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zeke
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:47 pm

Didn't they just lay off 1-200 workers off the C17 line ? Hardly what someone would do if they were expecting a good year.
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Devilfish
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:05 pm



Quoting R2rho (Reply 9):
In any case, there's good reason to believe it'll be a good year - with the cancelling of the modernization program for the C-5A's, the only alternative left is to buy more C-17s.

This report doesn't paint a very reassuring picture.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...EX8AAAEAAFQ7lQEAAAAM&modele=jdc_34

Pentagon Report Rebukes Air Force Demands for More C-17s; More C-17s are "Unaffordable," Unnecessary

(Source: Project On Government Oversight; issued Feb. 21, 2008)

Quote:
"WASHINGTON, D.C. --- The Department of Defense rebuked Air Force demands for more C-17 cargo planes in favor of upgrading C-5s, according to a February 14, 2008, Pentagon letter and supporting documentation to Congress obtained by POGO and made publicly available for the first time.

According to the letter from John Young, Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition, to various congressional committees: 'the Department reviewed several options for procuring additional C-17 aircraft and rejected those options as not meeting requirements and more costly to the taxpayer. Further, the higher costs of options procuring additional C-17s are unaffordable in the Future Years Defense Program.' The Air Force wants more than the 198 C-17s total they are currently projected to have."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
columbia107
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:47 am



Quoting R2rho (Reply 9):
In any case, there's good reason to believe it'll be a good year - with the cancelling of the modernization program for the C-5A's, the only alternative left is to buy more C-17s.

Not according to the Lockheed Martin

Lockheed Martin expects to complete the Avionics Modernization Program upgrades to the C-5B fleet around November and move directly into adding the same digital cockpits to the C-5A fleet, a senior company official said Thursday. At an anticipated rate of modifying 14 aircraft per year, AMP work on USAF's 59 C-5As-and thus all of its 111 Galaxies-should conclude in 2012, Jim Grant, Lockheed Martin VP for air mobility and special operations programs, told reporters at AFA's Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando. The AMP upgrades may well be the last major improvements to the C-5As, the oldest of the Galaxy airlifters, since Pentagon acquisition chief John Young on Feb. 14 removed them from consideration for the more expansive Reliability Enhancement and Re-engining Program upgrades that the remaining 47 C-5Bs and two C-5Cs in the fleet will still receive. The AMP'ed C-5As will be able to operate in more-efficient Global Air Traffic Management airspace, further increasing their efficiency, Grant said. Nonetheless, he said, there will remain "quite a bit" of a capability difference between the upgraded C-5As and those fully modernized C-5s that will have both the AMP and RERP features. The Air Force already has three C-5s, designated C-5M Super Galaxies, in this configuration and undergoing testing. Grant said the new engines added under RERP are more powerful and more fuel efficient than the aircraft's existing powerplants. Lockheed expects to enter into contract discussions for the RERP later this year. Work on these modifications will ramp up slowly before eventually reaching a peak conversion rate of 11 aircraft per year, with the RERP wrapping up notionally around 2016, Grant said.
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connies4ever
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:04 am



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 4):
It's possible Germany could go for 2, I don't believe they are part of the NATO consortium. An outside chance Canada would order a 5th, esp. if Afghani ops continue until end 2011 or later, as now seems likely.

Was also reading elsewhere that the RAF are now looking at 2 more C-17s, to make a total of 8.

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 7):
Correct,Sweden has, i belive the oldest Herks still flying today Yeah sure . To present day a dont know what will replace the herks.... C-17 is a bit much for us i think,but it would be nice. I would love 4-5 A400 and a couple of C-17 Big grin

I thought CF had that dubious honour, as LockMart people come to them for tips on mx. I believe there are still some late 60s-vintage E-birds still flying for the CF, with over 40,000 hours.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:15 am



Quoting R2rho (Reply 9):
Apparently they said a country, not an organization - that woud rule out NATO or the UN.

Does the UN even have own aircraft ? I don´t think so.

I doubt that it is Germany since the order of the aircraft had to be passed by the parliament and the Ministry of Defence could not secretly place an order, still it would be nice.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:12 am

I wouldn't be surprised if "super" Sarko from France placed an order.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:29 am



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be surprised if "super" Sarko from France placed an order.

Me neither. Does anybody know about French law ? Is it possible for the Goverment to secretly place an order for an aircraft without having to ask the parliaments permission ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:19 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 17):
Me neither. Does anybody know about French law ? Is it possible for the Goverment to secretly place an order for an aircraft without having to ask the parliaments permission ?

I think the French government has a lot more power than in other European countries
 
petertenthije
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:02 pm

There was talk/rumours about half a year ago that the RNLAF was looking at C-17s. With the amount of overseas deployments we could surely use some heavy lifters. The RNLAF hires a lot of Il-76s. I think Eindhoven gets two or three per week these days. When the deployment in Afghanistan started the number of Ilyushins and Antonovs chartered was even higher. At some point even two a day!
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F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 19):
There was talk/rumours about half a year ago that the RNLAF was looking at C-17s. With the amount of overseas deployments we could surely use some heavy lifters. The RNLAF hires a lot of Il-76s. I think Eindhoven gets two or three per week these days. When the deployment in Afghanistan started the number of Ilyushins and Antonovs chartered was even higher. At some point even two a day!

that's correct and I remeber talking to several RNLAF officers about it. Nevertheless, if it is the Netherlands, it would have been made public.

I don't believe that in times where budgets are very tight, the RNLAF will buy 3 of these beasts.
 
r2rho
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:23 pm

France and Germany tried to stall the joint NATO C-17 purchase... why would they now get them? They are too afraid that the C-17 could kill the A400M (rather than seeing it as complementary, like the UK). There is no chance that could happen. Even if the aircraft would be perfect for them.

The Italians? They do like to buy American aircraft. But with the current political instabilty that's very unlikely.

Japan would be politically a candidate, but they don't have troops deployed in distant locations. Same with Israel.

This really makes me wonder...  scratchchin 

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 13):
Not according to the Lockheed Martin

Well, we'll have to see about that... Usaf Cancels C-5 Re-Engine, More C-17s Coming? (by USAF336TFS Feb 15 2008 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)
 
Arniepie
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:38 pm



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 19):



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 20):

Let's start a petition to go for a joined purchase of some C17's for the FAB/Blu and the RNLAF , 6 would be just about right IMHO, we can station them at Eindhoven AB (close to Kleine Brogel and the Belgian border and all infrastructure already present) and start up a partnered transport wing.
We already do it for the Naval forces so why not team-up on this issue too?
We could both certainly use it to support all missions going on in Africa, Lebanon, Afghanistan and who knows what else in the future.
Doesn't make sense (maybe purely financially it does) to throw so much money to private companies while we need a military transport fleet anyway.
[edit post]
 
Spacepope
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:20 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 20):
I don't believe that in times where budgets are very tight, the RNLAF will buy 3 of these beasts.

Well gee, where is all that money I spend on Grolsch going to?

And when is the RNLAF's third DC-10F (not KDC) coming online, it's been getting upgraded for a few years now.
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petertenthije
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:04 pm



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
And when is the RNLAF's third DC-10F (not KDC) coming online, it's been getting upgraded for a few years now.

It arrived back at EIN about half a year or a year ago following a D-check in Italy. Not much later it went away again for further modifications: a modernised cockpit,strengthened cargo-floor and provisions for rapid change between cargo and passenger configuration. The KDC-10s should get the same treatment once the DC-10 is finished.
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:31 am

I heard not too long ago, that LGB is building 10 whitetails C-17s, in case late orders come in after
the assembly line is in the shutdown mode. Either way, the USAF will definately see at least 200
C-17s in its fleet. I'm hoping that the last McDonnell Douglas model still at LGB will see life for a
long time to come yet.
Regards.
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F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:19 am



Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
Let's start a petition to go for a joined purchase of some C17's for the FAB/Blu and the RNLAF , 6 would be just about right IMHO, we can station them at Eindhoven AB (close to Kleine Brogel and the Belgian border and all infrastructure already present) and start up a partnered transport wing.
We already do it for the Naval forces so why not team-up on this issue too?
We could both certainly use it to support all missions going on in Africa, Lebanon, Afghanistan and who knows what else in the future.
Doesn't make sense (maybe purely financially it does) to throw so much money to private companies while we need a military transport fleet anyway.

good idea! However I think that 4 is the max (at least from the Dutch point of view). Belgium always has spent a great emphasis on airlift for humanitarian purpouses (hence the 15? or so?) Hercs they have

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
Well gee, where is all that money I spend on Grolsch going to?

To Grolsch? You should switch to Hertog Jan BTW
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:21 pm

In todays Telegraaf (dutch newspaper) :

Hij zei blij te zijn met de steun van de Kamer voor de uitbreiding van de luchtvloot met een nieuw toestel, de C-17.

Translation: The secretary of defence is happy with the support of the political parties for the expansion of the air fleet with a new type of aircraft the C17.

Would be nice if true!

PH-BFA
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:44 pm

w00t!

that is news!

way to go RNLAF!

EDIT: I just found this article from september. It refers to the Dutch ministry wanting to join in the pool of NATO C-17s. I think this is being discussed here. Would be really (happily) surprised if this turns out to be about C17's for the RNLAF

[Edited 2008-02-27 05:56:44]
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:34 pm



Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 27):
In todays Telegraaf (dutch newspaper) :

Hij zei blij te zijn met de steun van de Kamer voor de uitbreiding van de luchtvloot met een nieuw toestel, de C-17.

Translation: The secretary of defence is happy with the support of the political parties for the expansion of the air fleet with a new type of aircraft the C17.

Would be nice if true!

Congratulations good news !!!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:03 am

Canada has just ordered the Herc J finally. I would be pretty shocked if they ordered a 5th C17. The budget just included a new Ice Breaker for the north. There is nothing else budgeted.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:20 am



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be surprised if "super" Sarko from France placed an order.

If that happened, could some of our French friends please go check on Keesje? I would be very concerned about his health and heart if he ever saw a C-17 in French Air Force colors.  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:44 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
If that happened, could some of our French friends please go check on Keesje? I would be very concerned about his health and heart if he ever saw a C-17 in French Air Force colors.

The French have already shown that they are willing to buy US aircraft when no French equivalent is available. Look at the E-2 and E-3, for example.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
ulfinator
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:54 pm

Maybe Japan. They learned how to load their CH-47Js onto a C-17 recently

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123087945
 
bingo
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:20 pm



Quoting Ulfinator (Reply 33):
Maybe Japan. They learned how to load their CH-47Js onto a C-17 recently

It seems almost weekly that I see them loading HMX-1 birds into the C-17s at KNYG. Its pretty impressive to see them pack those birds full and then fly them out on that 4k ft runway. The JDF would be smart to pick up the C-17 to compliment those shiny tankers they just got.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
I would be very concerned about his health and heart if he ever saw a C-17 in French Air Force colors.

If the French did buy a US plane, it would have to be the C-17 because its the only plane we sell that has "Reverse" on it....  duck   duck  j/k  Smile
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:40 pm



Quoting Bingo (Reply 34):
If the French did buy a US plane, it would have to be the C-17 because its the only plane we sell that has "Reverse" on it.... j/k

I think you are mixing up France with Italy (when concerning the reverse jokes)

France doesn't have any problems with deploying combat troops anywhere (they have permanent troops in France), since they have the Foreign Legion. If they die, the're not French, if they have succes, it's still the French military..
 
caspritz78
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:49 am



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 4):
It's possible Germany could go for 2, I don't believe they are part of the NATO consortium

Won't be Germany. We are stuck with the A400M and even if we were not I don't think the C-17 would be the right plane for the German Air Force.
 
TSV
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:18 am

The RAAF should order two more to make an even half dozen.
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:33 am



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 36):
Won't be Germany. We are stuck with the A400M and even if we were not I don't think the C-17 would be the right plane for the German Air Force.

Actually, I would love us to buy some. In fact, a shared EU procurement by EU member states, while completely impossible, would be the best option.
 
kaitak
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:36 pm



Quoting TSV (Reply 37):
The RAAF should order two more to make an even half dozen.

I'm sure the Australian defence ministry would have better ways to spend US$400m! Doesn't it have to replace some of its older Herks as well?
 
TSV
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 39):
US$400m!

What for two more? Where did you get that figure?

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 39):
Doesn't it have to replace some of its older Herks as well?

What the "H" models? I would think they've got a bit to go yet. I would say that a Caribou replacement is ahead of any "H" model replacement. The NH90s might be able to take a bit of pressure off the Caribou but like the old saying (modified of course) - the only replacement for a Caribou is another Caribou (or a C-27J if there are no Caribou left).
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:27 pm



Quoting TSV (Reply 37):
The RAAF should order two more to make an even half dozen.

ah, the imperial system, it must be exhausting to think in dozens all the time?
 
kaitak
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:19 pm

Australia has received its fourth and last C-17. The squadron has been operating since last year and full operational status should be reached by 2011.
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:08 pm

Sweden and Finland have with some other NATO nation's bought 3 C-17. Big grin Sweden will be the second largest contributor to to this deal and are expected to use these plane for 550-600 hours/year!
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
Mastodont
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:56 am

News from mil.se, unfortunately only in swedish so far.
http://www2.mil.se/sv/Nyheter/Nyhete...slut-om-strategiskt-transportflyg/
It takes a good musician to play metal, all you need to play hip-hop is a bad growth.
 
Mastodont
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:42 pm

These are the participating countries and their reported need of flight hours.
  • USA 1 000 h/year
  • Sweden 550 h/year
  • The Netherlands 500 h/year
  • Norway 400 h/year
  • Italy 300 h/year
  • Romania 200 h/year
  • Poland 150 h/year
  • Finland 100 h/year
  • Bulgaria 65 h/year
  • Slovenia 60 h/year
  • Hungary 50 h/year
  • Estonia 45 h/year
  • Latvia 45 h/year
  • Lithuania 45 h/year
  • Czech Republic 40 h/year

All three aircrafts will be registered and certified in Hungary as hungarian military aircrafts.
All facts are taken from this bill from the swedish government.
http://www.regeringen.se/content/1/c...7/bf982097.pdf (in swedish)
It takes a good musician to play metal, all you need to play hip-hop is a bad growth.
 
texl1649
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:50 pm

Would it have been conceivable to have thrown a giant gas tank in a C-17 and a boom system out the back (and drogue for the wingtips) to have offered a KC-17 alternative?

Obviously the rear ramp would be essentially completely re-designed (abandoned) but might this have been a plausible alternative to the totally-new to the USAF maintenance system 767?
 
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zeke
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:07 am



Quoting Texl1649 (Reply 46):
Would it have been conceivable to have thrown a giant gas tank in a C-17 and a boom system out the back (and drogue for the wingtips) to have offered a KC-17 alternative?

Yes it would, but they would be about double the cost of KC-767/KC-30, and would not have the range of them.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:14 am

why does the US need 1000 flying hours on these 3 nato frames while they already have almost 200 frames themselves?!
 
Jackonicko
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:47 pm

RE: Boeing Predicts Good Year For C-17

Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:38 pm

The C-17 is the most obvious example I can point to if anyone accuses me of being biased towards Airbus, or anti-American. And though it's not a Boeing aircraft 'by birth', Boeing engineering and manufacturing genius has undeniably contributed to its success. And it's ambitious and visionary enough to rank alongside the very best of Boeing's past efforts.

A technological marvel, the C-17 is, in my humble opinion, flat out the best military transport aircraft on the planet.

Yes, it's expensive, but you pay for that level of versatility, utility, survivability and capability.

Having watched C-17s operating in impossibly tight ramps, landing on soft surfaces, being loaded and unloaded without drama by small teams, I'm convinced that the C-17 is more deserving of praise as a truly great, era-shaping aircraft than anything else in service.

I've watched in dismay as the USAF have failed to order enough of the aircraft to keep the line open, and instead to waste millions on upgrades to less useful types, including the C-5.

A KC-17 might not be a good idea as a dedicated tanker, but putting KC-17 'kits' with every C-17 wing would certainly allow a useful tanker surge capability, and would make a versatile and flexible asset even more useful.

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