TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 4:24 am

So "some time" ago I was watching the TACAMO doing touch and goes @ TYS, and the urge to share this information along with times/dates was almost overwhelming. Growing up in S. Florida where the only Military A/C were at Homestead (no where near where I lived) and the odd MX divert @ KMIA, it's VERY odd to see so many Mil ops @ a public airport like TYS. I know it's nothing new (IE BHM) but it's strange that every day I see one military plane or another (usually KC-135's in the pattern), and the TACAMO is definitely not common here. Should I keep my big mouth shut about the specifics? PS, I'm just a civilian, but yes I do know what OPSEC is, that's why I'm even bothering to ask.
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ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 4:56 am



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
it's VERY odd to see so many Mil ops @ a public airport like TYS.

Not really. TYS is after all a joint-use airport (Air National Guard) and home to:

134th Air Refueling Wing
228th Combat Communications Squadron
572nd AF Band
I.G. Brown Training and Education Center
http://www.tnknox.ang.af.mil/


My guess would be that the E-6 crew choose TYS for a change of scenery or just a nice stop on one of their training sortie.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 5:10 am



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
I'm just a civilian, but yes I do know what OPSEC is, that's why I'm even bothering to ask.

As a former soldier, that comment shows me you are an outstanding citizen of our Great Country. Welcome to my RU list!  bigthumbsup 

Nobody needs to know about that aircraft, plain and simple. Thanks for asking!

F
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 5:32 am



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 1):
Not really.

You took me out of context  Wink

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 2):
Welcome to my RU

Thank you  Smile
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checksixx
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 1:43 pm

Most likely just practicing approaches like the SAM aircraft do here in Newport News. Not a big deal nor is it an OPSEC violation. The aircraft temporarily deploying and operating there would be an OPSEC consideration.
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 5:40 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
You took me out of context

Oh, I see it now. Sorry.  embarrassed 
I lift things up and put them down.
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 6:38 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
the urge to share this information

share this information with whom?
Slower traffic, keep right
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 7:12 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):

Actually, in Germany, on the forum www.cgncommunity.de there were some issues about CGN, because CGN also has military operations, like transports to afghanistan. For a long time, nobody cared, but now it the webmaster was advised that he should stop that. So it is not advisable to report about military Ops in Germany.

A very bad example I can think of were live reports from Italian airbases in the Kosovo war. German TV stations were standing at the flight line filming. Very smart, so Serbia knew who is taking off at which time. (They certainly have their own scouts at the airbases in italy as well, but still, this is a very stupid move).
 
zanl188
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 9:37 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
Should I keep my big mouth shut about the specifics?

The rule of thumb I use is anything I see in the press I can talk about. Generally works good for me.

Stuff like "Hey I saw the XC-44 at XXX last night!!" is not an issue. A lot of people probably saw the XC-44 at XXX that night. If people seeing it in the open were an issue it wouldn't be seen in public.

The OPSEC issue comes when you get stuff like "Hey I saw the XC-44 at XXX last night and it's the third time I've seen it in as many days. Looks like it's loading up a bunch of XMCs and hauling them to ZZZ. I think the tail # was 1234". Many little tidbits of innocuous info form a bigger picture. This is what happened to the F-22 suadron Commander over on fencecheck.com. He blurted out a bunch of apparently unclassified details in one place, thus forming the big picture. How he got away with that unpunished is rather strange - maybe it was deliberate misinformation?
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
checksixx
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 9:58 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
This is what happened to the F-22 suadron Commander over on fencecheck.com. He blurted out a bunch of apparently unclassified details in one place, thus forming the big picture. How he got away with that unpunished is rather strange - maybe it was deliberate misinformation?

That is NOT what happened. Mike Shower was directed to use means to get word out and share info about the Raptor...play it up. He NEVER posted anything classified or sensitive, or anything that would have been an OPSEC violation. The Air Force simply decided it wanted it removed when some OSI assclowns decided to make a stink about it. He was not punished...actually the folks slamming him in Air Force circles got punished.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Wed May 07, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
That is NOT what happened.

That's exactly what happened.

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
He NEVER posted anything classified or sensitive, or anything that would have been an OPSEC violation.

The stuff that becomes an OPSEC problem is generally not classified or even sensitive. Nor did I say he released anything classified.

I take it from the fact that you used the guys name that you're a fanboy or consider yourself familiar with his situation. Fair enough. Fact is what he did is being held up around the Air Force as an example of what not to do - he surely showed a lapse of judgement which would've landed more common Air Force folk on the wrong side of the ADCs desk.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Thu May 08, 2008 1:11 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
The rule of thumb I use is anything I see in the press I can talk about. Generally works good for me.

Not a good rule of thumb. There's a lot that gets reported in the press that is often speculation, sometimes correct, often not, or can be reasonably and logically downplayed as speculation until someone that is known to have access to the correct information confirms it.

Quoting Checksixx (Reply 9):
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
This is what happened to the F-22 suadron Commander over on fencecheck.com. He blurted out a bunch of apparently unclassified details in one place, thus forming the big picture. How he got away with that unpunished is rather strange - maybe it was deliberate misinformation?

That is NOT what happened. Mike Shower was directed to use means to get word out and share info about the Raptor...play it up. He NEVER posted anything classified or sensitive, or anything that would have been an OPSEC violation. The Air Force simply decided it wanted it removed when some OSI assclowns decided to make a stink about it. He was not punished...actually the folks slamming him in Air Force circles got punished.



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10):
That's exactly what happened.

to borrow Checksixx's favorite response... checkmark 

those OSI "assclowns" as you call them had nothing to do with making a stink about it. You like to think you're in the know...put your keyboard where your money is...so tell us, who exactly got punished? If other's got punished, why are there now OPSEC briefs, showing why he is a textbook example of EXACTLY what not NOT to do?

For once would you "check" your facts before you spout off...just once? Please?
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Thu May 08, 2008 1:53 am



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 6):

share this information with whom?

This board, I'm sure my wife and kids have the GAF O'Meter pegged @ -1
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unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Thu May 08, 2008 4:02 am



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 12):
This board,

Then I see no problem with it. It's a few touch-and-goes at an civil airport, not a beach landing in the middle of the night by a covert SEAL team. If they wanted to be secret about it, they would take their practice to a dedicated military instillation.

Just ask yourself, "would al-Qaeda care if an E-6B was practicing touch-and-goes in Knoxville?". I would bet, probably not.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
checksixx
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Thu May 08, 2008 4:39 am



Quoting AFHokie (Reply 11):
If other's got punished, why are there now OPSEC briefs, showing why he is a textbook example of EXACTLY what not NOT to do?

For once would you "check" your facts before you spout off...just once? Please?

Well for one...the folks behind that brief got adjusted appropriately for disrespectful comments regarding that incident. Second, which I love how none of you commented on...He WAS TOLD to do exactly what he did, with approval and monitoring along the whole way.

Maybe you all should actually know something before spouting off at the mouth. Just once? Please?

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 11):
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
The rule of thumb I use is anything I see in the press I can talk about. Generally works good for me.

Not a good rule of thumb. There's a lot that gets reported in the press that is often speculation, sometimes correct, often not, or can be reasonably and logically downplayed as speculation until someone that is known to have access to the correct information confirms it.

He wasn't asking about that...irrelevant. His question has been answered.
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Talking About Military OPS.

Thu May 08, 2008 6:01 pm



Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
Should I keep my big mouth shut about the specifics?

Nah. TYS is within a typical training flight's range, so I'm sure they just chose to use it because its something different than the norm. Oklahoma can get pretty boring over and over.

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 2):
Nobody needs to know about that aircraft, plain and simple. Thanks for asking!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/e-6.htm

All open source. No need to make things more classified-sounding than they already are. We do enough of that as it is.
Crye me a river

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