LMP737
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Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:29 am

On the more positive note there are a lot of SUV's out there that can be bought at a good price to replace it.


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Tugger
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:59 am

Quoting LMP737 (Thread starter):
Opps!

Perhaps you meant "Oops!"?
:D

Of course this Oops will not be good for the F-16 pilots career. May not stop his career (it might though, who wants a pilot that doesn't know to confirm targets flying for them?) but a note will certainly be placed in his file.

Tugg

[Edited 2008-07-24 18:03:08]
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LY744
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:26 pm

So does the USAF use regular HE 20mm rounds for target practice, or practice slugs (no explosive)? I think I see shrapnel holes on the inner panel of the truck, but can't be sure.


LY744.
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f4wso
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:49 pm

Thank goodness it was practice instead of High Explosive Incendiary.
Gary
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XT6Wagon
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting LY744 (Reply 2):
So does the USAF use regular HE 20mm rounds for target practice, or practice slugs (no explosive)? I think I see shrapnel holes on the inner panel of the truck, but can't be sure.

you can get shrapnel from solid rounds. Either from what the round hit or the round comming apart. on a different scale, I had some really horrid .22LR rounds that would leave a hole in the front of a milk carton and the back looked like I took a shot shell to it. I have no idea how well practice rounds for the cannon are constructed, but on some level I doubt they are made well enough not to have some fragmentation issues hitting stuff... Even if they are bits of the outer skin of the SUV breaking off at high velocity become projectiles too.
 
LY744
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
I had some really horrid .22LR rounds

I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Opps!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:53 pm



Quoting LY744 (Reply 5):
I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.

Wouldn't know, not going to pay $$$$ for a new less good rifle to fire ammo that costs $$$ when I can just get some of the ultra hot loaded .22LR loads they have. Anyway it seems to be really dependant on the maker how tough the bullets are for .22LR. Wouldn't suprise me though that the .17's do that at all.
 
johns624
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting LY744 (Reply 5):
I hear the faster .17s explode on contact with anything from a blade of grass to a piece of paper.

Just a slight exaggeration. By the way, all .17HMR ammo is loaded by Hornady, so buy whatever is cheapest, whether Federal, Hornady, Winchester or Remington.
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:58 am

From the article, "The soldiers had been training to identify enemy targets and direct aircraft to fire on them.". I hope they were RTU'd & don't end up as FACs in Afghanistan. It's difficult for a pilot at speed & altitude to identify a target that size. While he must accept some of the blame, he was depending on the trainee ground controllers to put him on the target. Range targets are often scrap civilian pattern vehicles, so it wouldn't be obvious at first glance.
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f4wso
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 8):
so it wouldn't be obvious at first glance.

The pilot should have enough situational awareness to know which range complex he is cleared into and the boundaries of that area. If a gross error like this happens in a controlled training environment, I hope it was his fini flight, at least in a single seat fighter cockpit. It was the pilot's finger in the trigger, not the FAC.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
LY744
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:45 pm



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 8):
From the article, "The soldiers had been training to identify enemy targets and direct aircraft to fire on them."

In the end it said the soldiers in the SUV were not working with that particular F-16 but "part of a different project on the range".


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:27 pm



Quoting LY744 (Reply 10):
In the end it said the soldiers in the SUV were not working with that particular F-16

My mistake, I missed that part.

So, was this pilot in contact with anyone? It was my impression that flights firing live ordnance at least work with the clearance of a range controller, if for no other reason than to deconflict traffic (but usually to score hits as well).
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LY744
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RE: Opps!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 11):
So, was this pilot in contact with anyone?

Must have been... the two things that surprise me most about this whole thing are:

1. That the soldiers were allowed to be within 1.5 miles of a target

2. That they managed to get out of the Suburban in time!


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Opps!

Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:57 am



Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
That the soldiers were allowed to be within 1.5 miles of a target

That is odd. That would be inside the safety template for a .50 cal, never mind a 20mm!
Can you hear me now?
 
f4wso
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RE: Opps!

Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:41 am

A mile and a half is not that unreasonalble. When I worked as a range officer at Hardwood in Wisconsin, I had loggers working on the south side of the range and F-16s dropping on the north targets, approximately 1/2 to 3/4 miles apart. Clear zones were from footprints based on the circular error average of the munitions.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
LMP737
Topic Author
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RE: Opps!

Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting F4wso (Reply 3):
Thank goodness it was practice instead of High Explosive Incendiary.

Thanl goodness it was an F-16 and not an A-10.  Smile
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