SmithAir747
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How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:24 pm

How do "boomers" (the large nuclear ballistic missile subs, like the Typhoons) launch their SLBMs?

Say a Soviet SSBN (like the Typhoon class) wanted to launch one of his SLBMs at Fort Wayne, IN (my hometown)...

Can the missiles be launched underwater, without surfacing? Or is it necessary to surface to launch missiles? Do the missiles' rocket engines ignite immediately once the launch keys are turned, or are the rockets somehow boosted out of the silos before the ignition?

Do all SSBNs launch the same way?

SmithAir747
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wannabe
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:33 pm

I believe that they are launched from the silo's using compressed air while submerged, with motor ignition occurring as soon as the missle clears the surface of the water. This video shows actual footage of a launch at about the 3 minute mark of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xvYt3wb6nw&feature=related
 
zanl188
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:36 pm

My understanding is that modern U.S. sub use a gas generator to force the missile out of the tube and into the air above surface. Ignition takes place above the water. Some say there is so much gas generated that the missile never even gets wet, which is possible I suppose as the missile is essentially inside a bubble as it goes to the surface.
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Stitch
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:37 pm

All modern SLBMs are launched using compressed air. This burst is sufficient for the missile to clear the surface of the water at which point the rocket ignites and the missile heads for it's target(s).

The sub will angle itself off to one side to allow for the SLBM to clear the sub if the motor fails to ignite.
 
dw747400
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:27 pm

How long does it take to launch a full compliment of missiles?
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Moose135
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:56 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 4):
How long does it take to launch a full compliment of missiles?

Be careful - Blackbird asked that question, and hasn't been heard from since  Wink
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
johns624
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 5):
Blackbird asked that question, and hasn't been heard from since

There IS a God!!!  Smile
 
sasd209
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:41 pm

IIRC, one of my old Janes books credited either a UK Resolution class or a USSR Yankee class with being able to launch 16 missiles in 15 minutes. I'll check into the specifics later, but those numbers do ring a bell.

SASD209
 
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Stitch
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 4):
How long does it take to launch a full compliment of missiles?

I would imagine you would want about a minute or so between launches to allow the water turbulence to clear and make sure that if one of your birds is a dud, it is not an obstacle.

So you'd be looking at probably about 30 minutes for a complete launch, I am guessing.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:16 am

I was reading an interesting report the other day on the Army portal, that noted websites like a.net, have been notorious for accidentally publishing sensitive information.

And of course, the old argument comes about: well it can be found on another website. ...But does that mean we ought to republish it, and make it easier to find and disseminate amongst the public?

Anyway... what benefit is gained by telling everyone the launch time frame needed for an Ohio class submarine, to launch all of its missiles?

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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Stitch
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:45 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 9):
Anyway... what benefit is gained by telling everyone the launch time frame needed for an Ohio class submarine, to launch all of its missiles?

It will keep Iran and North Korea honest?  duck 

Seriously, the only time any Ohio class SSBN would unload her entire physics payload was due to an all-out nuclear exchange with Russia or China. And chances are they know how long it would take because they, too, have SSBN fleets.
 
curlyheadboy
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:37 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
So you'd be looking at probably about 30 minutes for a complete launch, I am guessing.

Isn't it too long for being safe? I mean, once you launch a missile you give away your position, and 30 minutes looks quite enough for the enemy to find and sink you...
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
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Stitch
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:28 pm



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 11):
Isn't it too long for being safe? I mean, once you launch a missile you give away your position, and 30 minutes looks quite enough for the enemy to find and sink you...

I remain of the opinion that the Russians (and definitely the Chinese) do not know where our SSBN's are. So even when missiles start popping out of the ocean, they will be unable to bring any weapon to bare on those SSBNs before they have completed their firing sequence.

Also, the D-5 missile's range allows our SSBNs to stay much closer to home where they can be better protected during times of crisis.
 
Blackprojects
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:43 pm

Some Boomer Captains used to use a technique called shoot and Scoot, Meaning you fire one and Go Deep and Vanish for a bit but with the amount of Stuff being let loose in a full scale MAD Launch no one would have the time to fire on a Single Boomer let alone send an Aircraft out to sink it when its normaly Thousands of Miles away from the Bad guys.

As every Man and his Dog would be lobbing Missiles at each other all at the same time.

Roast Pork anyone?
 
sasd209
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:39 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 9):


Anyway... what benefit is gained by telling everyone the launch time frame needed for an Ohio class submarine, to launch all of its missiles?

-UH60

I don't recall anybody mentioning anything about an Ohio class SSBN before you brought it up. In fact, the OP mentioned a Russian Typhoon SSBN and I a Russian and UK sub....

SASD209
 
TheSonntag
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:40 am

Lets just hope this will never, ever happen. Launches from Sea look impressive, but lets keep that to practice trials.
 
sprout5199
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:39 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 2):
Ignition takes place above the water.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
clear the surface of the water at which point the rocket ignites and the missile heads for it's target(s).

I believe the motor ignites when the missile just starts to "fall back" into the water. The "negative" Gs is what fires the motor.If you watch the video, it looks like the missile just about "stops" and starts to fall back and the motor fires. But I could be worng.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 2):
Some say there is so much gas generated that the missile never even gets wet, which is possible I suppose as the missile is essentially inside a bubble as it goes to the surface.

Sounds good, as I would want a missile to fail just cuz some sea water got into it. And adding waterproofing would add a lot of weight not needed for filght.

Dan in Jupiter
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:43 am



Quoting SASD209 (Reply 14):

Regardless, the point went beyond this narrow subject, and spoke to the larger issue.

I wasn't telling him to shut up, or smacking his dick in the dirt for daring to ask such a question. I was simply raising a valid issue: sometimes we talk about stuff that seems harmless, but in the larger context, might be considered harmful.

I've done it a few times myself. In fact, there are a few posts I later requested be removed, because I thought there was stuff that ought not be there.

I am not sure if a submarine's complete missile launch time frame is common knowledge... but I do not think there is anything wrong with us taking a second to wonder if what we're publishing, ought to be published.

..That's all I am saying: think before we write.

-UH60
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slz396
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:49 am

Here's a link to a video of a Soviet/Russian "Akula" (Shark) class submarine, called Typhoon class by NATO, launching a few SLBMs during an exercise in the Northern Atlantic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlp1lUWqRYI

It is interesting because it shows 2 launches from below the water surface with a small interval, thus contradicting the theory they'd need more than a minute in between.

This class of submarine reportedly carries 20 BMs, with 10 warheads each and it only takes a few minutes to knock an entire continent off the map, with our without missile defence shield.
 
Stealthz
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:40 am



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 18):
Here's a link to a video of a Soviet/Russian "Akula" (Shark) class submarine

You can't believe all you see, the launches in that video also appear in other videos claiming they are Tridents.... someone is wrong
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
cloudy
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:57 am



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 18):
This class of submarine reportedly carries 20 BMs, with 10 warheads each and it only takes a few minutes to knock an entire continent off the map, with our without missile defence shield.

US missile defenses are not currently deployed or advertised as "star wars" style game changers. The current system is meant only for rogue state/accidental/or unauthorized launches.

Also, 200 warheads could not "knock a continent off the map". That is a gross exaggeration, though it is understandable why it is commonly believed. Hiroshima and Nagasaki's casualties were higher because those cities were essentially super dense tinderboxes. Most modern cities are not built like that. Nuclear weapons ARE very destructive. But they are not THAT destructive. Nuclear war would really, really suck. But it would not be the end of the world. At that level, it probably wouldn't even be the end of the countries involved if one is thinking of countries as large as China, Russia or the US.

One needs about 10 modern warheads to simply destroy an entire major, first world city. Or two to three of the huge cold war Titan II warheads. If you lobbed a 500 kiloton warhead into Chicago, you would probably kill a few hundred thousand people and cause a lot of damage within a certain radius. But the vast bulk of the metro area would remain intact.

So you can destroy most of 20 metro areas in all of, say North America with 200 warheads. Perhaps 10-15 would be in the US. Even in these areas there would be many survivors, but there would be casualties in some untargeted areas because of fallout. It would still be a bad day for everybody, to be sure. But the vast majority of the continent's population would survive. Worse things have happened to many countries that in the end survived and prospered.

Note this assumes a deliberate targeting of cities, and that all the warheads survived. That is the absolute worse case. If one assumes military bases are the main targets, the picture changes. Many of these are in isolated areas, and one needs more than one warhead from different missiles aimed at the same target to be sure of destroying any given base. A lot of potential targets are hardened, and that increases the number of warheads required dramatically. In this kind of strike we are looking at "only" a few million killed, mostly by fallout. Modern Russian and Western nuclear forces are designed for this kind of strike - over time nukes have traded yield for accuracy and number of warheads per delivery
device. Yet even with the lower yields, many missiles carry a lot fewer warheads then they can. This is because arms control agreements require a reduction of the total number of warheads, and this is the easiest way to do it.

Another factor to be considered is that it is more then likely that some of of a subload of SLBM's would be duds. The working missiles would no doubt contain a few dud warheads as well. For obvious reasons, its hard to test the beasts in completely realistic conditions. This means there would be considerably less then 200 warheads surviving.

The lesson in this is that it may not be as hard as one thinks to reduce the level of nuclear weapons in the world below the amount necessary to destroy civilization. A few hundred nuclear warheads is NOT the same as the thousands currently in US and Russian arsenals. If the US, Russia and China limited themselves to a couple hundred warheads - and other nuclear states were content with a handful, that would essentially eliminate the threat of a civilization-killing nuclear war. But it would leave enough to serve as a major deterrent to conventional wars between nuclear powers. It would also be enough to make cheating unprofitable - even if one were able hide a few extra from modern spy sats, it would still not be enough to make a difference in a war.
 
curlyheadboy
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:07 am



Quoting Cloudy (Reply 20):
US missile defenses are not currently deployed or advertised as "star wars" style game changers. The current system is meant only for rogue state/accidental/or unauthorized launches.

I agree, though politically it's hard for the US to get this message through diffidence.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 20):
One needs about 10 modern warheads to simply destroy an entire major, first world city. Or two to three of the huge cold war Titan II warheads. If you lobbed a 500 kiloton warhead into Chicago, you would probably kill a few hundred thousand people and cause a lot of damage within a certain radius. But the vast bulk of the metro area would remain intact.

Hard to tell... but remember most of Russia's warheads are larger than the western ones, at least 1 Megaton each meaning they severely affect an area of up to 9 miles from ground zero, making it 18 miles across (it may depend if it's an airburst or whether it explodes on the ground) and in a densely populated area such as Chicago it may very well cause casualties ecxeeding one million.
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
Nicoeddf
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:58 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 17):
I am not sure if a submarine's complete missile launch time frame is common knowledge... but I do not think there is anything wrong with us taking a second to wonder if what we're publishing, ought to be published.

Has anyone here first hand knowledge of such issues? I doubt it.
So in any case I would suspect that any important nation in the world will have the question answered long ago, if they would considered it worthwhile.

And I further doubt that any nation is surfing a.net or any other website for that matter, to gain information about the launch sequence of any SSBN floating around in the dark blue...
 
dw747400
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 17):
..That's all I am saying: think before we write.

I think you have a point, but I'd suggest that discussing a topic like this is not a problem in itself, but it certainly can lead to individuals releasing sensitive information when trying to be helpful, or just trying to impress others with their knowledge.

I think that it is primarily the responsible of the person who has the information to determine what they can and can't say. Very few people are trying to influence their judgment or goad them into publicly releasing confidential data. As I said above, human nature sometimes leads individuals to do just that on forums, but I wanted to see some publicly available information combined with the inferences of some knowledgeable board members, and not intend to encourage those with restricted information to disclose it.
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GDB
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:28 pm

Oddly, the RN nickname thier SSBN's Bombers , it's not a misheard copy of Boomer either. But something arrived at independently.

(On one doc about subs, some who had served on RN Polaris/Chevaline boats, said they passed the time on long dull patrols, by on one boat, installing a 'Scaletric' slot car racing track around the missile compartment, another had a 'crazy golf' course in it's place!)
 
sasd209
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:47 pm



Quoting SASD209 (Reply 7):
IIRC, one of my old Janes books credited either a UK Resolution class or a USSR Yankee class with being able to launch 16 missiles in 15 minutes. I'll check into the specifics later, but those numbers do ring a bell.

SASD209

I've found it, finally!

Janes Fighting Ships in the 1961-1962 edition credits the US George Washington class with being able to launch all 16 missiles in 15 minutes.

Sorry it took so long, I had a bunch of material to look through.

SASD209
 
AAR90
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:50 pm



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 22):
Has anyone here first hand knowledge of such issues? I doubt it.

Yes, quite a lot of folks when you think about it. But none that will speak of such issues without very good justification. It is not called the "silent service" for nothing.  wink 
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:49 pm



Quoting Cloudy (Reply 20):

Another factor to be considered is that it is more then likely that some of of a subload of SLBM's would be duds. The working missiles would no doubt contain a few dud warheads as well. For obvious reasons, its hard to test the beasts in completely realistic conditions. This means there would be considerably less then 200 warheads surviving.

I believe each sub test launches one or 2 birds every few years. Reliability of delivery is well better than 95%. There are 14 Trident subs with up to 24 missiles each, by current treaty there can be a maximum of 5 warheads - either 100 kT or 475 kT, so 120 warheads on each or over 1,600 total. The information noted is from Wikipedia so it is in the public arena, however it appears to be very accurate. BTW it has an excellent missile launch description.

As Little Boy was 13 kT detonated at around 1,000 ft with a blast zone over 4 mile diameter, a 475 kT warhead, being 30x stronger will have a far larger blast zone. It is believed that most warheads for military targets will be ground strikes with more limited blast zone.

Most assessments of US-USSR TNW was greater than 30% immediate casualties, significant secondary casualties, and a return to an economic stone age. That is before the environmental considerations of the fallout are included. Basically global annihilation.
 
cloudy
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:01 am



Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 27):
Most assessments of US-USSR TNW was greater than 30% immediate casualties, significant secondary casualties, and a return to an economic stone age. That is before the environmental considerations of the fallout are included. Basically global annihilation.

We wern't talking about total nuclear war, we were talking about a single subload. Civilization would survive a single subload. A large country such as Russia or the US could take a single subload and not loose their technological base or a crippling portion of their population. Countries have taken far worse calamities - Germany in the world wars and in the 30 years war come to mind - and recovered not only as nations but as world powers. Of course, it would still be a very bad day. Reduce the nuclear arsenal of the top 3 powers to only a few hundred and the risk of civilization ending in a nuclear war is essentially over, yet cheating enough to make a difference would still be difficult.

Absolute, total nuclear war with cities as targets could mean the end of civilization even with today's reduced arsenals. It would not, unless the environmental effects are worse than anticipated, mean the end of all life on earth or the end of humanity.

Again, Hiroshima and Nagasaki casualties were much higher than could be expected in a similar attack on a modern city due to its construction. "Blast zone" usually describes the diameter of the zone where buildings can be expected to have some significant blast damage. It does not refer to the diameter of the fireball - nor does it refer to the area where everything is completely flattened.

A nuclear weapon's destructive power and blast radius does not scale linearly with yield. That is because the effects diminish with distance by the inverse square law - and because a lot of the energy of the larger bombs is "wasted" destroying the stuff at ground zero that many more times. A logorithmic scale such as that used for earthquakes would be a better approximation of reality. An earthquake measuring 8 on the richter scale actually has hundreds of times more energy then one measuring 7. But it won't cause that much more damage, or feel that much worse. A similar scale would be a more accurate rating for the effects of a nuclear bomb. If Hiroshima was a 2, perhaps a 100 kiloton bomb would be a 3 and a 1 megaton bomb a 4.2 or 4.3. This is one reason MIRV's are so popular - even if the total yield is much less, you can pack a great deal more destructive power per missile with MIRVs. Also, accuracy is much more important than yield when dealing with point targets such as military installations - especially hardened targets such as large bunkers.

As for accuracy, in an actual war most missiles would fly over the poles or over other areas that they are not currently tested - for obvious reasons. Empty a complete subload at an actual target and there would be some surprises. That is one reason why military planners like to have many more warheads than a casual civilian observer might think neccessary. Almost certainly, many more warheads would be lost in war than in peacetime tests. Even more would be "wasted" as extra coverage in case of losses. A large number - probably more than 50% - of nuclear warheads expended in an actual war would exploded over already nuked territory. This is because in a war of this sort, you want to be absolutely sure that the target is dead. One can't do that if one only assigns a single warhead.
 
Nicoeddf
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:10 am



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 26):
Yes, quite a lot of folks when you think about it.

In total? Yes, surely.

Here on a.net? No, I don't think so. Some may, not many though.
(That's why I wrote "here" in my first statement  Wink )
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:12 am

If you're really interested in how certain tonnage would effect certain land areas, use this yield detonation effect simulator:

http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/...im.html?ll=-73.9971,40.7223&yd=100
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:32 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 30):
f you're really interested in how certain tonnage would effect certain land areas, use this yield detonation effect simulator:

http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/...d=100

Quite interesting, seeing how a 100 MPH wind (higher than most locations in the US) has a structure pressure of 22 PSF or 0.15 PSI a 100 kT device basically wipes out the curtain wall on commercial buildings and has hurricane force winds (although very brief duration) out to over 10 miles. Basically wiped out.

One sub load of 120 warheads @ 100 kT = 12 million tons explosives. The B-17 in all Europe missions dropped 650 kT, the Liberator 452 kT, & 420 kT for all other US aircraft in Europe, a total of 1,500 kT. The Sub has about 4x the entire WW2 European Air Campaign. It could take out the 20 largest cities in europe with 6 warheads each. Probably as much damage as the entire air campaign on Germany.

The loss of the WTC in NYC and the ensuing panic clipped a good 5% off the US GDP for 2 years. What would the loss of NYC, DC, Boston, Baltimore, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, MSP, DEN, LA, SFO, and SEA do. The EMP and associated effects would certainly make it a "bad hair day". Let us hope it never happens.
 
comorin
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:02 pm

What a fascinating thread! Thank you, posters.

One issue that has not been addressed is fall-out - we're mostly looking at structural damage. While it looks like a well-placed nuke in downtown NYC won't affect me much in the Upper East Side, there will be radiation and firestorm effects that should make NYC uninhabitable. Needless to say, the economic and morale consequences would be equally severe. Are there other maps that show this?

Question:When we talk of rogue-nation warheads, what kind of KT yield are we talking about?

Thanks
 
nomadd22
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:33 pm



Quoting Comorin (Reply 32):
One issue that has not been addressed is fall-out - we're mostly looking at structural damage.

Worse for us than for Russians. They increase the yield of their warheads by encasing them in U235 to get a fission-fusion-fission reaction. It makes them much dirtier.
Anon
 
sasd209
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:54 am



Quoting Comorin (Reply 32):
Question:When we talk of rogue-nation warheads, what kind of KT yield are we talking about?

Globalsecurity.org and FAS.org have excellent references about this topic. I believe the consensus is < 20KT is the most likely expected tonnage.

SASD209
 
comorin
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:21 am



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 33):



Quoting SASD209 (Reply 34):

Thank you!

Now to google 'Nuclear Winter'...

btw, I was reflecting on UH60's comments, but everything's out in plain sight on Wiki and with first page hits on Google.
 
astuteman
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:42 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
All modern SLBMs are launched using compressed air. This burst is sufficient for the missile to clear the surface of the water at which point the rocket ignites and the missile heads for it's target(s).

Absolutely right. And when you realise how much these things weigh, that's a LOT of gas.  Smile

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
The sub will angle itself off to one side to allow for the SLBM to clear the sub if the motor fails to ignite.

That would surprise me.

The very first, last and continuing requirement throughout the firing cycle is that the submarine is ABSOLUTELY static, both in the horizontal plane, and the vertical plane.

I wouldn't expect the boat to move immediately after launch.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
I would imagine you would want about a minute or so between launches to allow the water turbulence to clear and make sure that if one of your birds is a dud, it is not an obstacle.

Again, the very first thing that has to happen is that the submarine recovers it's buoyancy equilibrium immediately after launch - it does this pretty quickly, too  Smile

Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 22):
Has anyone here first hand knowledge of such issues? I doubt it.

For me, that's always a dangerous assumption on A-net. We always seem to attract a most impressive cross-section of extremely knowledgeable engineers/posters..  highfive 

Rgds
 
nomadd22
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:18 pm

I know of one ex Boomer resident who frequents A-net. He has a t-shirt that says "24 empty tubes. Now it's Miller time"
Anon
 
astuteman
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:19 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 37):
I know of one ex Boomer resident who frequents A-net. He has a t-shirt that says "24 empty tubes. Now it's Miller time"

I have a suspicion there's another one too.. (not me, I hasten to add  Smile)

Rgds
 
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Stitch
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 36):
I wouldn't expect the boat to move immediately after launch.

The sub would angle itself prior to commencing launches.
 
astuteman
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:17 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
The sub would angle itself prior to commencing launches.

I have to admit that this is one I've not heard before......
I've certainly not seen it being incorporated into the technical specifications for the systems, or heard it being discussed amongst the crew.
I'm still sceptical.
Nevertheless, I've not actually done it myself, so you could be right.................  Smile

Rgds
 
sasd209
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:03 am

As unlikely as it sounds, it certainly would be very easy to induce, say, a 5 degree list to the launch side before launch. Assuming of course that was within the missiles launch parameters. That could possibly give a margin of error should the missile fail to launch and come crashing down. A glancing blow or a miss entirely would be better than an "up and down" hit. I certainly don't know anything about all that, just speculating here.
 
astuteman
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:13 am



Quoting SASD209 (Reply 41):
Assuming of course that was within the missiles launch parameters.

A very valid point...  Wink

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 41):
That could possibly give a margin of error should the missile fail to launch and come crashing down

For what it's worth, the crash would not be particularly dramatic - the submarine itself is after all, under the water.
"Splash" rather than "crash" would be more likely.

And you have to ask the question "What damage would any residual velocity in the falling (sinking) missile do to the submarine", given that this particular section (the top of the missile compartment) is the equal thickest part of the hull (which means THICK..)

At the end of the day, having seen/lived the engineering and the systems designed into these vessels to keep them both level and still, in preparation for firing, I'm struggling with the notion.

But I've never fired a missile - I'm not crew  Smile

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AustrianZRH
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:29 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 33):

Worse for us than for Russians. They increase the yield of their warheads by encasing them in U235 to get a fission-fusion-fission reaction. It makes them much dirtier.

One correction: the encasing is made of U-238, which can be used for fission with high energy neutrons (rather low yield, though).
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
Stickers
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 16):
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 2):
Some say there is so much gas generated that the missile never even gets wet, which is possible I suppose as the missile is essentially inside a bubble as it goes to the surface.

Sounds good, as I would want a missile to fail just cuz some sea water got into it. And adding waterproofing would add a lot of weight not needed for filght.

Not sure if a joke, but the missiles get completely wet when the outer doors open. They do not open quick enough for the missile to be fired and remain dry. They (IIRC) flood them first before the compreesed airgas pushes the missile out. Otherwise that system wouldn't work. Check out the videos above, you can clearly see the missile in the water before being fired and the outer doors are open.

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 23):
lead to individuals releasing sensitive information when trying to be helpful, or just trying to impress others with their knowledge.

I think that it is primarily the responsible of the person who has the information to determine what they can and can't say.

IME People who have been deemed responsible enough to know sensitive information, have been given that responsibility precisly because they are not likely to post it on A.net. In any case.
 
zanl188
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:43 pm



Quoting Stickers (Reply 44):
Not sure if a joke, but the missiles get completely wet when the outer doors open. They do not open quick enough for the missile to be fired and remain dry. They (IIRC) flood them first before the compreesed airgas pushes the missile out. Otherwise that system wouldn't work. Check out the videos above, you can clearly see the missile in the water before being fired and the outer doors are open.

Not a joke - As you say though, check out the video. If you look at the video in reply 1 you can clearly see pieces of the frangible capsule the missile is encased in. The capsule is in, in my understanding anyway, blown apart by the launch gases as the missile exits the tube.

In this pix (from the vid in reply 1) the solid pieces that are visible are not parts of the missile. This is the capsule in the process of being blown apart. The missile is not visible at all, it's beneath the capsule pieces and gases.

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zanl188
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RE: How Do Missile Subs Launch Ballistic Missiles?

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 40):
I have to admit that this is one I've not heard before......
I've certainly not seen it being incorporated into the technical specifications for the systems, or heard it being discussed amongst the crew.
I'm still sceptical.
Nevertheless, I've not actually done it myself, so you could be right

Do a google images search on "Trident SLBM" and you'll find images of tridents coming out of the water at all sorts of angles... Including this one....


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