Blackbird
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F-102A Speed Question

Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:18 pm

I was reading an article about the F-102A Delta-Dagger
URL: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f102_1.html

There is one particular line that has my curiousity piqued... (it's the part of the quote in bold)

Quote:
Strange as it may seem, the F-102A actually did fly some close-support missions over the South, even though the aircraft was totally unsuited for this role. These operations started in 1965 at Tan Son Nhut using the 405 FW alert detachment. Operating under the code-name "Project Stovepipe", they used their heat sinking Falcon missiles to lock onto heat sources over the Ho Chi Minh trail at night, often Viet Cong campfires. This was more of a harassment tactic than it was serious assault. They would even fire their radar-guided missiles if their radars managed to lock onto something. The pilots were never sure if they actually hit anything, but they would sometimes observe secondary explosions.

The F-102s soon switched to a day role, firing the 12 unguided FFAR rockets from the missile bays, using the optical sight. 618 day sorties were flown, the last one being flown at the end of 1965. One F-102A was downed by ground fire during one of these rocket attacks.

There were some later missions flown, especially in Mayday emergencies when the 102's were the fastest response available in the South (2 1/2 minutes over the fence, far faster than the F-4).

During the early 1960s, the F-102A was gradually replaced in the ADC by the McDonnell F-101B Voodoo and the Convair F-106 Delta Dart. By mid-1961, the number of F-102As in service with the ADC was down to 221. However, by the end of 1969, with the exception of a squadron maintained in Iceland, all ADC F-102As had been transferred to the Air National Guard. The F-102As stationed in the Pacific had been withdrawn in December of 1969.

The only F-102As still in service with the USAF at the beginning of 1970 were all stationed overseas. At that time, the USAF still retained a few F-102A squadrons in Germany and the Netherlands. In the early 1970s, European-based F-102As were replaced by F-4 Phantoms. By the end of June 1973, the number of active F-102As had been reduced to ten.

Okay, I am aware the F-106A is faster than the F-4, but I was always under the impression that the F-102A was slower than the F-106A (by a few tenths of a mach number) and the F-4...


Blackbird
 
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ptrjong
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:47 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
fastest response available in the South (2 1/2 minutes over the fence

Fastest to scramble... is that so difficult to read?

Peter
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WarRI1
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:00 am



Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
There were some later missions flown, especially in Mayday emergencies when the 102's were the fastest response available in the South (2 1/2 minutes over the fence, far faster than the F-4).

The way I read it is the F102 was designed as an interceptor and when the alert came, the aircraft could be airborn and over the fence at the end of the runway in 21/2 minutes. where the time for the F4 to to get airborn and over the fence was longer. It had nothing to do with top speed. If I am correct, I hope that helps.
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sasd209
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:22 am

What's the question here? I don't see a "?" in the original post, just some quotes and some bold text.  confused 
 
ghostbase
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:41 am

The F-102 or 'Deuce' was certainly no slouch for a point and area defence interceptor which entered service in 1956. Right from the start she was intended to get into the sky within three minutes of the alert klaxon being sounded and then reach an altitude of 35,000 feet within another three minutes, all whilst toting a full load of AIM-4 Falcon missiles. She could realistically intercept the Soviet M-4 'Bison' and the Tu-16 'Badger' bombers which way back then required an impressive performance.

The deployment of the F-102 to Vietnam was a logical move because the North Vietnamese were believed to have aircraft capable of entering South Vietnamese airspace with as little as a minute's warning, the F-102 was the available aircraft best suited to counter this perceived threat which they did from early 1962 until 1970. There were 15 aircraft losses: 12 to operational incidents, 2 to ground fire (a mortar attack) and 1 was shot down by a MiG-21 'Fishbed E' with the loss of the pilot.

Interestingly, as the OP point out, the F-102 remained in active service much later in Europe than the USA which again is probably due to the very short alert warning times given and the need for an effective fast-off-the-ground interceptor in all weathers.

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 3):
What's the question here?

Blackbird's curiousity was piqued! Which sends me diving into my reference books and I learn a little bit more about a fascinating era in aviation history  Wink

 ghost 
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ebj1248650
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:37 pm

How fast could the F-4 and F-106 get airborne after the alert klaxon went off? F-4 had starter cartridges and should have been able to get airborne very quickly, unless the cartridges weren't typically used on alert aircraft.
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sasd209
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:20 pm



Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 4):
Blackbird's curiousity was piqued! Which sends me diving into my reference books and I learn a little bit more about a fascinating era in aviation history Wink

Understood, I see it's often piqued in this forum. But the title said F-102A Speed Question so naturally I was looking for the "?". Interesting observations, nonetheless.  Wink
 
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WarRI1
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:16 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2):
The way I read it is the F102 was designed as an interceptor and when the alert came, the aircraft could be airborn and over the fence at the end of the runway in 21/2 minutes. where the time for the F4 to to get airborn and over the fence was longer. It had nothing to do with top speed. If I am correct, I hope that helps.

I would have to assume that I was correct in my answer, althought in a very simple and humble way.
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ghostbase
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:02 pm



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 7):
I would have to assume that I was correct in my answer, althought in a very simple and humble way.

Absolutely and a pleasure to expand on it  Smile

Looking at your profile I guess you would have seen all the Century Series fighters in service as well, hope you appreciated them at the time! Living over the other side of the 'pond' and being that bit younger all I have seen have been in AMARG or in museums  crying  With the exception of the awesome Starfighter thanks to Germany, Turkey and Italy.

Keeping on topic the F-102 was never based in the UK but they did occasionally visit for airshows.

 ghost 
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f4wso
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:42 am

I think in the later years, the F-4 used a -60 for start. Cartridges would have worked but not sure how that would have interfaced with the shelters.

Gary
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Blackbird
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:59 am

Okay,

So obviously the comment I quoted was based on response time, in terms of how fast the engines could be started, and the plane brought onto the runway and taken into the air...

I thought they were talking about time from lift off to where it intercepted the enemy...


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WarRI1
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RE: F-102A Speed Question

Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:25 am



Quoting Ghostbase (Reply 8):
Looking at your profile I guess you would have seen all the Century Series fighters in service as well, hope you appreciated them at the time

I have, I thank you for the information you provided on the F-102. Very thorough.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.

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