Lumberton
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The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:24 pm

Albeit by another name, The Global Strike Command. Good move?
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/10/17/af...tes-to-announce-more-nuke-changes/

Quote:
Defense Secretary Robert Gates and senior Air Force leaders are expected to announce early next week that all the service’s nuclear missile and bomber forces will be centralized in a single numbered air force major command led by a still-to-be named three star general. The tentative new name for the major command is Global Strike Command.

This move is one of the biggest changes the service will undertake as it sketches in its nuclear roadmap. As the Air Force readies to move missileers out of Space Command, where they currently reside, it has not yet decided whether Space Command will retain authority to train and equip missileers or whether the troops will be trained, equipped and commanded in the new major command.

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ebj1248650
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:02 am



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Quote:
Defense Secretary Robert Gates and senior Air Force leaders are expected to announce early next week that all the service’s nuclear missile and bomber forces will be centralized in a single numbered air force major command led by a still-to-be named three star general. The tentative new name for the major command is Global Strike Command.

Personally, I don't believe SAC should have ever been disbanded. Bombers and their supporting elements are an entirely different world from those associated with tactical fighters. I was assigned to SAC and TAC during my Air Force years and as a maintainer I can tell you the two are worlds apart.

Same holds true for Air Defense Command and TAC. Again, while both fly fighters their mission objectives and associated mind sets are totally different. Merging them under Air Combat Command was not a good move.
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Blackbird
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:24 am

EBJ1248650,

I would have to agree with you.

The ACC was created largely because the guys who created it were fighter pilots and got sick and tired of playing second-fiddle to the bomber-guys.


Blackbird
 
L-188
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:42 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 2):
The ACC was created largely because the guys who created it were fighter pilots and got sick and tired of playing second-fiddle to the bomber-guys.

I think that the Clinton era force structure that created ACC needs to be consigned to the ashheap of history.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:57 am



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
The tentative new name for the major command is Global Strike Command.

Great, another 'high-tech' Air Force title.

Aerospace Expeditionary Warriors....Space Warfare badges....Air, Space, and Cyberspace.....Hi, I'm Buzz Lightyear, Space Ranger. Looking forward to seeing the new patch for this.

Let's bring back the old SAC, the stars and blue fuselage band included.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
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N328KF
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:10 am



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 4):
Let's bring back the old SAC, the stars and blue fuselage band included.

Along with a cigar-chomping take-no-prisoners general...
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
L-188
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:59 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Along with a cigar-chomping take-no-prisoners general...

We definately need more of those.

You never heard about LeMay's boys accidently putting live nukes on a bomber they where ferrying from North Dakota to Louisana and nobody realizing it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:40 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
You never heard about LeMay's boys accidently putting live nukes on a bomber they where ferrying from North Dakota to Louisana and nobody realizing it.

What the heck went wrong? Such incompetance back then was inconceivable, and certainly not tolerated by General LeMay.
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:36 am



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 1):
Personally, I don't believe SAC should have ever been disbanded. Bombers and their supporting elements are an entirely different world from those associated with tactical fighters. I was assigned to SAC and TAC during my Air Force years and as a maintainer I can tell you the two are worlds apart.

Same holds true for Air Defense Command and TAC. Again, while both fly fighters their mission objectives and associated mind sets are totally different. Merging them under Air Combat Command was not a good move.

We can thank the McPeak lead fighter mafia for screwing up the whole USAF. SAC, TAC, ADC, and MAC all need to be returned to their traditional roles. He also tried to screw with the uniforms we wore back in the early 1990s.

Along with the Missiles, B-1s, B-2s, and B-52s, will the KC-135s and KC-10s return to SAC? Will the RC-135s and U-2s also return?

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 4):
Let's bring back the old SAC, the stars and blue fuselage band included.

Along with a cigar-chomping take-no-prisoners general...

LeMay and Ryan.

BTW, the US Army needs a Patton and the USN needs a Halsey, too.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
I think that the Clinton era force structure that created ACC needs to be consigned to the ashheap of history.

I am not, nor have I ever been a Clinton guy, but all of this happened in 1991 and 1992, much of it before Clinton took office. Dip S#@* McPeak, then AFCOS, came up with all this crap for the "new" USAF during the military forces draw down from DS and the Cold War. It was designed to support the "Peace Dividend" that the US Congress said we had then.

BTW, it was also McPeak who reduced the (then) B-2 production buy to a total of 21 airplanes, including the two test airplanes.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:20 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
BTW, the US Army needs a Patton and the USN needs a Halsey, too.

In essence, let's bring back top line commanders who have commitment, courage and character!
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:40 am



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 9):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
BTW, the US Army needs a Patton and the USN needs a Halsey, too.

In essence, let's bring back top line commanders who have commitment, courage and character!

They got the job done, right.
 
Lumberton
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:41 pm



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 9):
In essence, let's bring back top line commanders who have commitment, courage and character!

I'm willing to give General Schwartz a chance to fix the messes. The disciplinary action meted out to top commanders for the missile parts screw up is a good start. IMO, he needs to totally rebuild the culture in the special weapon programs with an emphasis on personal accountability. I'm still shaking my head in bafflement how the chain of command could have screwed up so badly as to fly nuclear armed cruise missiles across country without anyone taking notice until after the aircraft had landed! There is simply NO excuse for this.

Perhaps he needs to borrow some talent from the USN's nuclear program, both weapons and reactors? These folks are a bunch of screamers (or at least the ones I knew were) to be sure, but they do enforce accountability!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:13 pm

I am going to get A LOT of flak for this: but in my opinion, the Air Force continues to fail to step up to the plate for the GWOT.

Recently I've worked with USAF personnel, closer than I have ever done so in my career. And the general consensus amongst myself, and my Army brethren, is that the Air Force is aloof to the fact that we're fighting a war.

There is a lack of urgency. There is a lack of teamwork with other branches. There is a lack of a belief that the current conflict requires a new approach, and tactics of '91 and '97 are no longer valid. And there is a lack of confidence that what they're doing, is truly making a difference.

And to me, that kind of failure is a core result of a systemic failure of leadership, at the highest levels.

I have watched a mission be scrubbed for questionable reasons - forcing a team to hoof it out of their mountain position over night. And the AF leadership's response to this was a simple "Opps, our bad."

And I think it has to do with two main reasons.

1.) The mentality of fighting a Gulf War/Balkans style conflict is so entrenched into Air Force planning and operations, they have struggled to meet the very new challenges of OIF, OEF, GWOT.

2.) The leadership is isolated from the realities of this war. Whereas Marine and Army commanders have multiple tours of duty on the front line, and lead near the action --- the technology age has allowed the Air Force to prosecute an air war, from over 8,000 miles away, creating a sterile environment. They are detached from seeing how their successes impact the war, and more importantly.... how their failures impact the lives of those on the ground.

Now flame away. I'm sure I just pissed a few people off!

-UH60
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Venus6971
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:57 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
.) The mentality of fighting a Gulf War/Balkans style conflict is so entrenched into Air Force planning and operations, they have struggled to meet the very new challenges of OIF, OEF, GWOT.

2.) The leadership is isolated from the realities of this war. Whereas Marine and Army commanders have multiple tours of duty on the front line, and lead near the action --- the technology age has allowed the Air Force to prosecute an air war, from over 8,000 miles away, creating a sterile environment. They are detached from seeing how their successes impact the war, and more importantly.... how their failures impact the lives of those on the ground.

Now flame away. I'm sure I just pissed a few people off!

UH,
As a 23 year USAF vet (retired Jan 03) I agree with you, it seems the USAF that won in Desert Storm is gone along with most of its leadership, after the storm we got leaders like Gen McPeak and his view of how the USAF should be, get rid of SAC and only fighter pilots and other harry chests need apply for leadership positions. From the maintenance troop view of things the can do attitude of whatever it takes to get the mission done was taken over by yes we know you are good at your job and you stay deployed but you are not showing any professional growth by not having a degree, no additional duties and don't show up for the Sq Xmas party, you are not a team player. Losing nukes, flunking ORI's and having touchy feely dont hurt anybodys feelings for disipline is what my beloved USAF has become.
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JohnM
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:06 am

UH60,
As the norm, you are just about right on target. I did the blue to green thing long before that term was invented, and yes, lots of stuff in the AF is a soup sandwich. We won't see any leaders like LeMay anymore, anybody like that won't go above O-5 in todays AF.

Don't fret about our dear old Gen McPeak. He is all hooked up with the Obama campaign as some sort of mil advisor, so I'm sure if his guy is the next pres, the airline pilot uniforms might be back. Do a web search about what he said about McCain being a prisoner of war just recently. Enough thread hijack.

Maybe golobal internet command or hard drive strike command will do the trick.
 
L-188
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:35 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
I am going to get A LOT of flak for this: but in my opinion, the Air Force continues to fail to step up to the plate for the GWOT.

Maybe we ought to roll USAF back into the USAAC?

That way the leadership would appreciate their commitment to the boots on the ground.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
zanl188
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:07 am



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 4):
Looking forward to seeing the new patch for this.

Not the Strike Command patch but indicative of the present muddled thinking from our USAF friends at the puzzle palace....

Look familiar?


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Lumberton
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:11 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
There is a lack of urgency.

That perception is nothing new, I can assure you. I first heard it in 1978

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 16):
Look familiar?

I saw this yesterday and was going to post, but (thankfully) you beat me to it!

"Muddled" doesn't begin to describe it IMO.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:25 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
2.) The leadership is isolated from the realities of this war.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
am going to get A LOT of flak for this: but in my opinion, the Air Force continues to fail to step up to the plate for the GWOT.

Recently I've worked with USAF personnel, closer than I have ever done so in my career. And the general consensus amongst myself, and my Army brethren, is that the Air Force is aloof to the fact that we're fighting a war.

UH60, no argument from me, I am a vetran of SAC. The recent and to some extent current USAF Leadership suffers from lack of situational awearness. That is fatal to all flyers.

I think if you get down to the O-3 level and all E-1s to E-9s, you will find those who really want to stand besides their US Brothers-in-arms.

From the O-4 level up, they just want that next promotion and begin to play politics.
 
keesje
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:58 am

 crossfingers 

This goes further, I have the feeling everything, everywhere was smacked together to very big entities for efficiency during the last 10 yrs. You had to consolidate to even survive. Some made big money out of it (consultancy) & now we are finding out it hasn't become cheaper or better and everyone is looking for focus / effectivity again..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Venus6971
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:18 pm

Its offical "Global Strike Command" will be stood up by 2009

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...20Strike%20Command&channel=defense
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:50 am



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 20):
Its offical "Global Strike Command" will be stood up by 2009

Well, Donley really screwed this up, didn't he. A 3 star as the commander (not a 4 star), split the bombers, leave some in ACC? Call it GSC?

"Air Force leaders released a so-called roadmap, titled “Reinvigorating the Air Force Nuclear Enterprise,” that details major actions the service"

Hello, it is a military organization, not a new donut business.  banghead 

"But, Donley said, “We thought we should preserve the gains made in the last 15 years in making the bomber force more effective for support of theater [operations].”

What gains would those be? Oops, sorry, there weren't any.  Wow!  Angry  Wow!  Angry

It is sad to say the USAF just went from being lead by two Bozos . to now being lead by an idiot. All in less than 1 year.

 ashamed   ashamed   ashamed 
 
AFHokie
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:10 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Will the RC-135s and U-2s also return?

No, if they leave ACC the departure will be to AFISRA. Which IMHO they along with all other ISR assets should belong to.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Return Of Strategic Air Command?

Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:27 am



Quoting AFHokie (Reply 22):
No, if they leave ACC the departure will be to AFISRA.

When SAC controlled all bombers, missiles, tankers, ACCS/NEACP, and most recee assets, life was a lot simpler for the USAF.

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