Oykie
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Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:35 pm

i am so happy. Norway socialist government is buying JSF. more details will follow
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:03 pm

Hats off for LM, hope they'll manage to satisfy the Norwegians.

It would be interesting to see what capabilities the Gripen NG didn't meet. Will there be an official statement summarizing requirements vs. capabilities?
 
Lumberton
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:46 pm

CNN is confirming the news. No mention of how many.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...OWJONESDJONLINE000630_FORTUNE5.htm

Quote:
STOCKHOLM -(Dow Jones)- Norway's prime minister's office Thursday said the country has decided to buy Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) planes made by the U.S.' Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT), rather than Saab AB's (SAAB-B.SK) Gripen jet fighter.

It said the JSF planes are the only ones that meet operational standards set by Norway's government for the country's future military air force.


Edit. Reuters reports that Norway aims to buy 48.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...UtilitiesNews/idUSLK45092820081120

Quote:
OSLO, Nov 20 (Reuters) - The Norwegian government said on Thursday that it would pick Lockheed Martin's (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter over Swedish Saab's (SAABb.ST: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) Gripen to replace its ageing F-16 war planes.

NATO member Norway has said it aims to buy 48 combat jets in a deal that would be the biggest defence investment in Norwegian history, and is estimated to be worth as much as $14 billion over the lifetime of the aircraft.



[Edited 2008-11-20 08:48:46]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:11 pm

Let's hope that the Norwegian parliement agrees.... But, yes it looks like it's gonna be F35.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:29 pm

The desicion was dropped like a bomb. Neither the Swedish Gripen company, Swedish embassy, American Lockheed Martin or the American embassy had been told beforehand. Everyone had expected the announcment / desicion of aircraft to be on the 19th of December.

It was decided to announce it now because the information was considered stockechange sensitive.
 
brendows
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 3):
Let's hope that the Norwegian parliement agrees....

The parliament will agree, the only party that may disagree is SV, and if they disagree they will show that their decision is not based on performance/cost.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:38 pm

While the JSF is shaping up to be a good aircraft and obviously a major future NATO fighter, the Gripen in my opinon would have privoded the greatest benefits for the Norwegians with the proposed volume participation of Norwegian industry and given Norway the best bang for its money.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:14 pm

Lockheed Martin: - We surpass our competitors

USA ( US ambassadeur to Norway ) - Strengthens our relationship

Saab / Sweden: - Very dissepointed

Eurofighter: - Norway is gone from our map*****



Minister of defence Norway: - Even though the Swedish offer was better from an industrial relationship point of view, the conclusion was that the F 35 was clearly better from a defence point of view. The desicion was made after a heavy evaluation of our military defence analysists and checked by two different external evaluators.


The operation capabilities of the planes were set against 4 different threats. 3 domestic and 1 international. Amongs these are: Defence of land area ( Domestic ), defence of sovereignity of the areas of the North ( domestic ), defence of populated areas ( domestic ) and NATO's security of peace operations ( international )

JSF made it through all the 4 operational scenarions, while Gripen NG only managed the international part. JSF was considered best at information gathering, survailance and eliminate targets on ground and sealevel.


There is however questions and doubts regarding wether the US will be able to make and deliver the planes in the end because of the financial crisis. - This is a question that we will have to follow up on with the United States and Lockeed Martin.


( ***** Eurofighter was no longer part of the final competitors. They left the bidding process along time ago due to the fact they felt that the competition was not real )
 
SASDC8
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:18 pm

Excellent choice by the Norwegian Government!

It will pass threw parliament with the support of Høyre and FRP without a hitch, no matter what SV says/decides on Big grin

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Oykie
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 1):
It would be interesting to see what capabilities the Gripen NG didn't meet. Will there be an official statement summarizing requirements vs. capabilities?

According to the NRK news, SV would like to delay a decision to make the requirements public.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
While the JSF is shaping up to be a good aircraft and obviously a major future NATO fighter, the Gripen in my opinon would have privoded the greatest benefits for the Norwegians with the proposed volume participation of Norwegian industry and given Norway the best bang for its money.

The Swedish deal was very attractive, if Gripen is sold in many examples. But Norwegian industries also benefit on the F-35 program.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 7):
There is however questions and doubts regarding wether the US will be able to make and deliver the planes in the end because of the financial crisis. - This is a question that we will have to follow up on with the United States and Lockeed Martin.

I have heard only one self appointed expert saying that the JSF probably won't happen, but I have a hard time believing that. I mean, it is the future combat airplane for the US. That are the chances of the JSF not happpening?

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 8):
It will pass threw parliament with the support of Høyre and FRP without a hitch, no matter what SV says/decides on

Let's hope that you are right in this regard  Silly
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:48 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 9):
I have heard only one self appointed expert saying that the JSF probably won't happen, but I have a hard time believing that. I mean, it is the future combat airplane for the US. That are the chances of the JSF not happpening?

Yes I am aware of this self appointed expert that you are referring to and I agree with you, he is'nt very trustworthy. However this question has gotten attention in the Norwegian parliement and therefore will proabably be adressed.
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:23 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 9):
have heard only one self appointed expert saying that the JSF probably won't happen, but I have a hard time believing that. I mean, it is the future combat airplane for the US. That are the chances of the JSF not happpening?

Well,i have read that the type of F-35 that Norway wants is of no intrest for the US and therfore more expensive for LM to produce,because of the low airframe nr ordered,and therefor in these finacial times would be at risk,not the F-35 program itself,right?

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 7):
***** Eurofighter was no longer part of the final competitors. They left the bidding process along time ago due to the fact they felt that the competition was not real )


I can't blame them, a lot smarter than SAAB,they have my respect!  thumbsup 

Congrats to US and LM!  wave 
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TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:51 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 9):
According to the NRK news, SV would like to delay a decision to make the requirements public.

So far I've found this: http://www.regjeringen.no/upload/FD/...flykapasitet_anbefaling_311008.pdf

and



I'm only halfway through the report so it's to soon to tell if it's useful.
Norwegian is a tricky language... I which I spent more weeks skiing in Trysil as a kid  Smile

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 9):
I have heard only one self appointed expert saying that the JSF probably won't happen, but I have a hard time believing that. I mean, it is the future combat airplane for the US. That are the chances of the JSF not happpening?

Saying the JSF won't happen is bull IMO. Fewer built planes than first expected is however a possibility...
 
Lumberton
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:27 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 9):
The Swedish deal was very attractive, if Gripen is sold in many examples. But Norwegian industries also benefit on the F-35 program.

Reuters reports that the F-35 was cheaper.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...UtilitiesNews/idUSLK45092820081120

Quote:
Combat aircraft is a crucial capability for Norway's defence," Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said in a statement on Thursday.

"The Joint Strike Fighter is clearly best at fulfilling the requirements we have set, and in addition (it) is the cheapest plane," Stoltenberg told a news conference.

Norway said the U.S. planes would cost 18 billion Norwegian crowns ($2.54 billion), which it said was 6 billion crowns cheaper than the Gripens. Defence officials said that stealth technology was one feature that put the F-35 ahead of others.

The defence ministry said total costs of owning the Gripen plane over a 30-year lifetime were estimated at 20-30 billion crowns higher than the JSF lifetime costs.

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:00 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
Reuters reports that the F-35 was cheaper

People involved in the program here are very confused where theese figures coming from,they clame the opposit??
And Norways defends analyst,John Berg says that the JSF will cost twice as much as the Gripen??? Future will tell i guess!
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MCIGuy
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:51 pm



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 14):

Yes, the F-35 is designed from the outset to be cheaper to maintain than legacy platforms.  Smile
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STT757
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:46 pm

Which version of the F-35, the B model would be cool.
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:33 am

It's the A model

If everything goes as planned, they will be faced in from 2016 - 2020 and replace Norway's F 16's

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00900/Bod__Airshow__a_jpg_900915x.jpg

I'm not sure if this is the real thing or if it's a mock up, but the picture is from Bodø airport in Norway earlier this year.

With Norwegian markings...  Smile
 
SCAT15F
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:40 am



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
Well,i have read that the type of F-35 that Norway wants is of no intrest for the US and therfore more expensive for LM to produce,because of the low airframe nr ordered

An air defense variant of the F-35A that is lighter, perhaps?
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:38 am



Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 18):
Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
Well,i have read that the type of F-35 that Norway wants is of no intrest for the US and therfore more expensive for LM to produce,because of the low airframe nr ordered

An air defense variant of the F-35A that is lighter, perhaps?

What is the source; i.e. where did that information come from? What's the difference between what the Norwegians want and what US armed forces want and will get?
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TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:28 am



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 15):

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 14):

Yes, the F-35 is designed from the outset to be cheaper to maintain than legacy platforms. Smile

It will be cheaper than legacy platforms, i.e. teen series fighters. LM guesstimated the F-35 will be 30% cheaper to operate than the F-16. Thailand says Gripen will be 50% cheaper than the F-16 to operate. Gripens proven track record is however nothing compared to LM's estimations...  Yeah sure

As SAS A340 said, the only way to find out is to wait ~10 years since the F-35 isn't operational in Norway yet.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 17):
I'm not sure if this is the real thing or if it's a mock up, but the picture is from Bodø airport in Norway earlier this year.

Mockup. The AA-1 (the only F-35A flying) is to precious to risk crossing the Atlantic with to participate in airshows etc.

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 18):
Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
Well,i have read that the type of F-35 that Norway wants is of no intrest for the US and therfore more expensive for LM to produce,because of the low airframe nr ordered

An air defense variant of the F-35A that is lighter, perhaps?

The only difference I'm aware of is the landing chute for icy runways.
 
brendows
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:01 am



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 14):
And Norways defends analyst,John Berg says that the JSF will cost twice as much as the Gripen?

John Berg was referring to fuel burn (he believed the F-35 would burn twice as much fuel as the Gripen NG,) not life-time cost. I'm actually puzzled that people listen to this guy (John Berg)...
 
art
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:39 am

Good news for LM; bad news for Saab.

I am baffled how LM is going to deliver the frames at a cost of $61 million each from 2014 when the USAF F-35's are budgeted to cost over $90 million each in 2013. I think the US Congress may also be baffled about this when it comes to approving this export deal. How will LM be able to explain charging the US government 50% more per F-35 delivered in 2013 than it proposes charging the Norwegian government for aircraft delivered from 2014?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:39 am



Quoting Art (Reply 22):
Norwegian government for aircraft delivered from 2014

The Norwegian ones will start being delivered between 2016 - 2020.

Final cost and number of aircraft is still a matter of negotiation.


It might be that the industrial contracts in Norway are calculated and deducted into the final cost ?? I don't know.

But it's a long way to go.

The Norwegian government hope to get acceptance and approval from parliment to start negotiating final cost and number of aircrafts in December this year.

Final contract for delivery wont be signed before 2014 proabably.

First delivery 2016
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:52 am

In a report the Norwegian airdefence analysists recomends that Norway should buy 56 and not 48 JSF as previously said.

However there will no doubt be serious discussions about how many fighters Norway need. So we'll just have to wait and see.

Personally I'm hoping for 56 or more...  Smile
 
art
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:09 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 23):
Quoting Art (Reply 22):
Norwegian government for aircraft delivered from 2014

The Norwegian ones will start being delivered between 2016 - 2020.

My mistake. Thought it was 2014 delivery start.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 23):
Final contract for delivery wont be signed before 2014 proabably.

Why so long? By then Norway would have to accept whatever price LM asked for.... unless the price was fixed by contract in earlier negotiations.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 20):
The only difference I'm aware of is the landing chute for icy runways.

The Norwegian F 35 will also be able to carrie the Norwegian NSM missile. I seem to recall that Lockheed Martin had to make some adjustments to fit that into the missile bay. I don't know if that will be something that will be done with all F 35 or only the Norwegian ones.

" According to Kongsberg, this "multi-role NSM" is the only anti-ship missile that will fit inside the F-35's internal bays. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Strike_Missile
 
TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 26):

Aha... I was under the impression that the NSM (or JSM) would be offerd to all JSF partners. Thanks for the info!
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:34 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 27):
Aha... I was under the impression that the NSM (or JSM) would be offerd to all JSF partners. Thanks for the info!

I did'nt say that it would'nt. I only said that the use of NSM with the JSF was an important issue for Norway. I'm sure that the countries that buy JSF will be able to buy NSM too. Just like the ones that have Gripen and Eurofighter.
 
TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 28):
I did'nt say that it would'nt. I only said that the use of NSM with the JSF was an important issue for Norway. I'm sure that the countries that buy JSF will be able to buy NSM too. Just like the ones that have Gripen and Eurofighter.

OK, I misinterpreted you, sorry about that.

I responded to this:

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
Well,i have read that the type of F-35 that Norway wants is of no intrest for the US and therfore more expensive for LM to produce,because of the low airframe nr ordered,and therefor in these finacial times would be at risk,not the F-35 program itself,right?

I thought the landing chute feature would make Norway’s JSF version unique, or will other countries use this as well? Therefore, when you responded with the NSM post, I thought fitting it in the Norwegian JSF would be another unique Norwegian feature.

Sorry about the confusion.
Have you heard of more Norway specific features?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:46 pm

I think it was only Norway that added braking parachutes to it's F 16 and I think that is still the case.

Anyone who wants a braking parachute installed can ask for that when ordering the planes, but so far I think it's only Norway that has asked for that for it's F35. I don't think it comes as equipment on the F35.

I guess the USA could have use for it in certain parts of their country ( Alaska for instance ) and maybe Finland if they decide to go for F 35.



P.S Another thing that was added to the Norwegian F 16's was a identifcation spotlight to identify Soviet planes in the old days. I don't think we have asked for that for the F 35 though.

[Edited 2008-11-21 07:48:55]
 
Tancrede
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 30):
and maybe Finland if they decide to go for F 35.

Decision not to be made before 2015 by Finland, for a new fighter to be delivered by 2030.
 
Oykie
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:51 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 30):
Anyone who wants a braking parachute installed can ask for that when ordering the planes, but so far I think it's only Norway that has asked for that for it's F35. I don't think it comes as equipment on the F35.

Wouldn't new carbon fiber bakres make a parachute less critical? It seems old fashion to install a parachute on a future airplane! Wow much do you gain in braking distance with a parachute? A P8 poseidon will stopp inn less than 800 feet if needed. Surley the F-35 should be able to stop at least in this distance?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
Wouldn't new carbon fiber bakres make a parachute less critical? It seems old fashion to install a parachute on a future airplane! Wow much do you gain in braking distance with a parachute? A P8 poseidon will stopp inn less than 800 feet if needed. Surley the F-35 should be able to stop at least in this distance?

The main reason, as I've understood it, is ability to stop on icy runways where breaking capacity is limited. Breaking distance on a dry surface can't be a problem for the JSF.
 
olle
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:46 pm

The swedish ministary of defence asks norway to explain their explainations..... This can get long term consequenses.....

How much military equipment does sweden buys from norway?
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting Olle (Reply 34):
The swedish ministary of defence asks norway to explain their explainations..... This can get long term consequenses.....

How much military equipment does sweden buys from norway?

I honestly don't understand why he (or anyone) is surprised. F-35 was the lead horse from the beginning...
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nomadd22
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:29 pm



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 32):
Wouldn't new carbon fiber bakres make a parachute less critical? It seems old fashion to install a parachute on a future airplane! Wow much do you gain in braking distance with a parachute? A P8 poseidon will stopp inn less than 800 feet if needed. Surley the F-35 should be able to stop at least in this distance?

I'm not sure how carbon brakes would help on an icy runway. Norway's ops would be kind of limited if the plane could only land on ice free surfaces.
Maybe they should have gotten the STVL version.
Anon
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:06 am

Anger over Norway's fighter plane rejection
Published: 21 Nov 08 16:39 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/15858/20081121/



A former Saab executive lashed out at the Norwegian government on Friday over its handling of a decision to reject the Gripen in favour of the American F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.





“We are really surprised about how this was handled, what happened yesterday, and about the justification,” said Jan Nygren, who served as Saab’s deputy CEO until two years ago, to the TT news agency.

Since leaving his post, Nygren has served as a consultant for Saab on the Norway deal and as a result has plenty of insight into what was said and done in the lead up to Thursday’s rejection of the Gripen.

“It went very fast and we didn’t get any advance warning, maybe an hour and a half, and with that I’m being generous,” he said.

“And besides, we are just a tad surprised to say the least that they so unabashedly chose to criticize the Gripen, despite the fact that all of us involved know that the Gripen is a better fit for the functional demands laid out in the documentation included in the proposal request.

“I can’t criticize Norway for deciding to buy an American airplane. It’s obvious if there are two competitors that only one can win. But we are confused by the justification. Why is it necessary to sit in a press conference and state that the Gripen doesn’t meet a number of operational demands?” asked Nygren.

As he continued to vent his frustration, Nygren wondered further why Norway would subject the Gripen to such harsh public criticism.

In announcing the decision on Thursday, Norway’s defence minister Anne-Grethe Ström-Erichsen presented a detailed technical review in which she detailed how the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) outclassed the Gripen in almost every area.

“The JSF is considered to be better than the Gripen in every major requirement for a combat aircraft – spying and surveillance, as well as combat against targets in the air, on land, and at sea,” she told the Norwegian news agency NTB.

The public dismantling of the Gripen’s capabilities by the Norwegian defence minister was also a sore point for Nygren.

“We’re wondering why a neighbouring country like Norway took the liberty of choosing this way to describe an airplane which is actually in operation in our air force,” he said.

“It will probably mean that Saab will request to look at the documentation. And I’m assuming that the government and the Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) are just as interested. Because this isn’t just some minor attack, if I can use that expression.”

Jan Nygren said he had never believed that Norway was simply playing to the gallery when it requested a Swedish tender.

"No, I have not wished to harbour any such suspicions. We have endeavoured to view our Norwegian friends as a group that was serious and had thought this through.

"Of course, having seen all this, I will now have another think. What happened yesterday may cause me to have some doubts."

Source: thelocal.se

Coments from "team Eurofighter" was like " Really? what a surprise!" (sarcastic)
I don't think that we are so dissapointed over that we lost the race,it's more how we did it by our neighbour Norway,feels like a spit in the face and many wonder why? I dont blame SAAB among others that they want a explanation from Norway!  Confused
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Lumberton
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:32 am



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 37):
Why is it necessary to sit in a press conference and state that the Gripen doesn’t meet a number of operational demands?” asked Nygren.



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 37):
As he continued to vent his frustration, Nygren wondered further why Norway would subject the Gripen to such harsh public criticism.

He's really taking this hard, huh?  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
TGIF
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:23 am



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 38):

He's really taking this hard, huh?

Sounds like his feelings are similar to the ones expressed by Boeing when NG/EADS won the KC-45 deal.

I think one big issue is that Norway says that the Gripen didn't meet the requirements. Since he has seen them and knows what the Gripen NG will be capable of, he would have a quite good picture.There would have been a lot less commotion if the Norwegian conclusion was "both contenders met the requirements but the F-35 exceeded them to a further extent".

I have another general wondering. There has been some reports in the Norwegian press that a key factor was the outcome of the air combat simulations against the PAK-FA. Are there enough know facts available of the PAK-FA to perform such an evaluation (I'm not criticizing the fact that the F-35 came out on top)? The numbers stem from warfare.ru, is that a credible source?
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:44 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 39):
I think one big issue is that Norway says that the Gripen didn't meet the requirements

One of them was the costs,Norrway clamed that the Gripen costs during a 40 year span would have a pricetag of about 22 bilj dollar,and according to SAAB that's over 400%!!! more than SAAB promised that it would cost! SAAB wonder where this numbers come from,due to the fact that the whole Gripen program for over 200 planes including develop has cost about 15 bilj. dollar!

Quoting TGIF (Reply 39):
There would have been a lot less commotion if the Norwegian conclusion was "both contenders met the requirements but the F-35 exceeded them to a further extent".

Exactly! Insteed they used 90% of the time to throw crap at Gripen and what it seems like claiming things thats not are correct. It,s probably not agains the law but very very cheap and uggly!! Everybody more ore less know that Norway are forced to buy American made but thats not SAAB,s fault is it?
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Mortyman
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:39 am

 
Oykie
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 37):
Why is it necessary to sit in a press conference and state that the Gripen doesn’t meet a number of operational demands?” asked Nygren.



Quoting TGIF (Reply 39):
think one big issue is that Norway says that the Gripen didn't meet the requirements. Since he has seen them and knows what the Gripen NG will be capable of, he would have a quite good picture.There would have been a lot less commotion if the Norwegian conclusion was "both contenders met the requirements but the F-35 exceeded them to a further extent".

There was an article in Aftenposten today, who says all the experts did the analysis one more time, since they were surprised that the difference was so big. To make sure the numbers were correct they did the analysis one more time. 90 experts in 27 groups have worked with the this for more than a year. And two external consultant firms came up with the same conclusion and were also surprised that the difference was so big.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2785027.ece Link is only in Norwegian. Sorry.
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:16 pm



Quoting Olle (Reply 34):
The swedish ministary of defence asks norway to explain their explainations..... This can get long term consequenses.....

Maybe the Swedish minister need to be reminded who our main allies are?....one hint: NATO!

Quoting Olle (Reply 34):
How much military equipment does sweden buys from norway?

Not sure, but just because we don't want your planes, doesn't mean Norway doesn't buy military equipment from Sweden. One example is the CV-90 (Strf-90 in Swedish) that the Norwegian Army uses
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:14 pm

From what I have heard, Sweden does'nt buy equipment from other nations because of their neutral policy. Norway has bought CV 90's from Sweden and Stridsbåt 90 ( Combat Boat 90 ) from Sweden among other things. Our specialforces has the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - anti-tank weapon in it's arsenal of many different weapons in use.
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:52 am



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 44):
Our specialforces has the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - anti-tank weapon in it's arsenal of many different weapons in use.

There are plenty of AT-4s in use by the US as well, another Saab product.  Wink
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:02 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 39):
There would have been a lot less commotion if the Norwegian conclusion was "both contenders met the requirements but the F-35 exceeded them to a further extent".

I don't think we know all the facts behind the Norwegian decision. But judging by what's being said up to this point I think the above is head on.

Of course there's national pride involved into this. And of course Sweden is disappointed. Who wouldn't be? We're proud of Gripen and doesn't like it being bashed like this. Loosing a deal has been done before so that isn't new. But doing it this way maybe makes it a little bit harder for "us" to accept?

I hope Sweden will act professionally no matter what, business is business. Foul play or not.
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:06 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 43):
Maybe the Swedish minister need to be reminded who our main allies are?....one hint: NATO!

Does that mean Norway don't need to explain them selves to non-NATO members? And because they are part of NATO, non-NATO nation’s proposals may be disqualified on false grounds?

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 44):
From what I have heard, Sweden does'nt buy equipment from other nations because of their neutral policy.

That's not entirely correct. A lot of the equipment may be from Swedish companies there are several exceptions. From the top of my head:

- All helicopters, NH90, AW 109, CH-46, AS 332 etc...
- Stridsvagn 122. Tank, Leopard 2 from Germany
- PSG 90. Sniper Rifle, L96A1 from UK
- AG 90. Sniper Rifle, M82A1 from US
- Ugglan. UAV, Sperwer, from France
- The list continues...

Sweden is less and less neutral, and more and more people seem to campaign a Swedish NATO membership. With shrinking budgets causing the army, air force and navy to shrink, give it 10-15 years
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:50 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 47):
That's not entirely correct. A lot of the equipment may be from Swedish companies there are several exceptions. From the top of my head:

- All helicopters, NH90, AW 109, CH-46, AS 332 etc...
- Stridsvagn 122. Tank, Leopard 2 from Germany
- PSG 90. Sniper Rifle, L96A1 from UK
- AG 90. Sniper Rifle, M82A1 from US
- Ugglan. UAV, Sperwer, from France
- The list continues...

Sweden is less and less neutral, and more and more people seem to campaign a Swedish NATO membership. With shrinking budgets causing the army, air force and navy to shrink, give it 10-15 years

So, do you have anything Norwegian ?  Smile
 
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RE: Norway To Buy JSF

Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 47):
And because they are part of NATO, non-NATO nation’s proposals may be disqualified on false grounds?

Which false grounds? Several independent analysis have judged the JSF to be a better aircraft, which is not surprising considering it is a generation younger than the Gripen

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