Tiger119
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"Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:03 am

I was reading about C-17 (Globemaster III) units and locations and saw the terms "Associate Reserve" and "Associate Guard" units. I have never heard those terms before. Are they different than normal Reserve and Guard units? Thank you,

David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
zanl188
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:56 pm

They share aircraft with active duty units..

The idea is to provide a pool of additional crews to sustain wartime airlift surges without the added expense of providing these units with their own aircraft.

This is also why you will see markings from 2 units on the nose of many of AMCs aircraft. In the case of this aircraft the 437th Airlift Wing is the active duty unit and the 315th Airlift Wing is the associate. Also you can see both the AMC & AFRC shields further back on the fuselage...


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DeltaGuy
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:38 pm

It's a somewhat new idea, combining both Guard/Reserve assets with those of active duty...sometimes referred to in the "Total Force" scheme. Works well when it comes to keeping Guard guys in some newer equipment, but sometimes that isn't always the best idea.

DeltaGuy- Guard bums forever
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Venus6971
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:34 pm

They have a Associate reserve unit in AWACS which works fairly well, most of the ARTS were at one time active duty which keeps the corporate knowledge around without the huge turn over on the active side.
Also here at Tinker we have a Reserve unit with a associate Guard unit 507th ARW AFRES/137th ARW OKANG, the 507th owns the acft but the 137th is caretaking some 5 grounded KC-135E doing calendar inspections and doing tire rotations until the USAF figures out what to do to the TF-33 powered jets, the 137th flys the 507th equipment.
The E-8 JStars has a associate Guard/Active mix which the 2 cultures really don't mix, the Guard is alot more laid back but has a focus on the mission and had little tolerance of the active duty anal crap so they don't get along espicially on the mx side, the Guard guy after 8 hours is clocking out going home where the active mx troop is still on the flightline kicking a pig that a guard crew is flying. The Guard guys look at active duty officers like this.Just shut up you are going to be gone in 2 years anyhow replaced by a another knucklehead like you who we also will tell to STFU.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:19 am



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
It's a somewhat new idea, combining both Guard/Reserve assets with those of active duty...

Actually, no. There have been active duty/reserve associate units, mostly in MAC going back to the 1950s. However, active/ANG associate units are a relitively new thing. There have been active units and ANG or USAFR units on the same base for many years, but each had their own aircraft and missions.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 3):
The E-8 JStars has a associate Guard/Active mix which the 2 cultures really don't mix

Like trying to mix oil and water.
 
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STT757
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:06 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
There have been active duty/reserve associate units, mostly in MAC going back to the 1950s.

The 305th and 514 Air Wings at McGuire AFB are associate units sharing KC-10s and C-17s.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:50 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
However, active/ANG associate units are a relitively new thing. There have been active units and ANG or USAFR units on the same base for many years, but each had their own aircraft and missions.

Should have left the "reserve" part out of it then, thanks TopBoom. Coming from the ANG fighter world, associate units are just now popping up (example, Richmond ANG going to Langley for the F-22)

DeltaGuy
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Venus6971
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:18 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Like trying to mix oil and water

I t always amazed me that the active had to be in charge even though the Guard /Reserve has the experiance, temperment and the can do in personel to get the job done. The major reason IMHO most active guys cross over into the Guard/Reserve they just get tired of the BS in the active world but they love doing the mission and don't care for the careerism side of the active duty side.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:54 am



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 7):
The major reason IMHO most active guys cross over into the Guard/Reserve they just get tired of the BS in the active world but they love doing the mission and don't care for the careerism side of the active duty side.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

You are right with the level of BS on the active duty side.

In today's world, the only real advantage the career active duty force has over the Reserves/ANG is the payment of retirement pay as soon as you retire from active duty. Reserves/Guardsmen have to wait until age 60 (it used to be age 55) to begin collecting retirement pay.  banghead 
 
Tiger119
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:27 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
AMC & AFRC shields

- I know "AMC" stands for "Airlift Mobility Command" but does "AFRC" stand for "Air Force Reserve Command?"

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 3):
ARTS

- I can not even offer a guess what that stands for  Confused

I know that The Indiana National Guard has full time soldiers, does The Air National Guard have full time airmen? Enlisted and officers? I have met soldiers with The Indiana National Guard that are full time at places around Indiana. The reason I ask that question is both the airport in Fort Wayne (FWA) and the airport in Terre Haute (HUF), (both in Indiana) have Air National Guard units and both airports have full time ARFF crews, FWA's is supplemented with airmen http://www.indianafiretrucks.com/pages/allen/fortwayne_airport.html and I have been told that HUF's ARFF crew is totally guardsmen.

David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
Tiger119
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:46 am

Also, what call sign does the USAF (USAF, USAFR and ANG) units use when flying the C-17s?
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STT757
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:23 pm



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 6):
. Coming from the ANG fighter world, associate units are just now popping up (example, Richmond ANG going to Langley for the F-22)

I thought I read that the Hawaiian ANG Unit currently flying F-15s from Hickam will form an associate Unit with a new Active Duty squadron to be set up at Hickam and both with transition into the F-22.
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Venus6971
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:06 pm



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 9):
Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 3):
ARTS

- I can not even offer a guess what that stands for


ART= Air Reserve Technician , on the weekday they are civil servent employees in civilian clothes under civilian work rules unless they are supervision and have to wear a uniform. On the weekend during a UTA or reserve weekend they shave,get a haircut and put a uniform on to train the traditional reservists. Sorry if I get carried away with the acronyms 23 years on active duty and thinking everybody understands USAF/military lingo in mixed company.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
f4wso
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:56 pm

ART is an Air Force Reserve term; Technician is Air National Guard. One big difference is full time reservists wear civilian clothes while the ANG technicians wear their miltary uniforms although they are in a civilian capacity. I am not sure why the difference in the terms but it has held in all four ANG and one Reserve unit I was a member of.

There was a program called PROJECT SEASON where a first assignment active duty lieutenant would come to a Guard or Reserve unit to absorb the experience that those unit members had to offer. My pilot in RF-4C training came to my Guard unit for his initial assignment after training. A downside to him flying amongst a lot of Southeast Asia veterans is being at the bottom of the heap when he went back to active duty. His peers in less experienced environments were quickly moving up to element lead, flight lead, instructor pilot, flight commander positions.

Gary
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Venus6971
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:13 am



Quoting F4wso (Reply 13):
A downside to him flying amongst a lot of Southeast Asia veterans is being at the bottom of the heap when he went back to active duty. His peers in less experienced environments were quickly moving up to element lead, flight lead, instructor pilot, flight commander positions.

Why doesnt that cross over to other units, that drove me nuts in mx , being engine run and taxi qualified red X then pcsing going to the same airframe you are totally DQ'd on everything considered critical tasked.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
f4wso
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:23 am

Think of it this way, a regional airline I used to fly for had pilots domiciled in Minnesota, Tennesee, and Michigan. If we were run like an Air Force unit, each time a pilot switched domiciles, they would need to be requalified. Qualified in one location should be qualified in others. Airplanes assigned to one domicile would not be configured like the other domiciles. For the Air Force equivalent, why is a C-130 from one unit not configured like others. The fourteen years I was in the mighty Herkasaurus, each unit had their own way to configure the equipment on the airplane. I felt that if Headquarters Standardization/Evaluation was doing their job, subordinate unit aircraft would be like configured. Airframes are being shifted amongst units so the fleets age uniformly given the partial unit deployment schedules.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
Venus6971
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RE: "Associate" Reserve And Guard

Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:08 pm

That was a good thing about SAC, you can PCS to Minot from K.I. Sawyer then to Grand Forks and all procedures were the same on how they performed mx .
I would help you but it is not in the contract

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