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Mortyman
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Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:57 am

The Swediss minister of defence admits that Gripen was'nt the best choice for Norway, considering Norway's needs.


The Swedish defence minister still disagree that the Gripen would be much more expensive for Norway than the F 35 and he also dislikes the way the news of the desicion to scrap the gripen was presented.


However he admits that the gripen plane was not the best choice for Norway, taking into account the demands that Norway had set for a new fighterplane.


First of all he says that wanted a fighter that can perform solo attacks against ground targets after having flown over enemy territory, defended by airdefence artillary and next generation fighters.

- In such a perspective, stealth capabilities become a central factor.

The Swedish MOD admits that the Gripen is not designed to operate on lonely solo tours without adittional airsupport radar. The Gripen is constructed as a system to be a part of a bigger system.


Number 2, Norway wanted an aircraft that could operate and engadge in a fight far away from it's base. Also here, the stealth capabilities of the F 35 will be of significance to Norway.

Number 3, Norway wanted a plane with big and heavy weapons ment for ground targets in adittion to full armour for selfdefence.


- The Gripen is not particularly adapted for this.

- Since Sweden and other possible export countries, don't priorities heavy attackcapabilities, the Norwegian assesment says fairly little about gripen having weaknesses,compared to our needs, says the Swedish mod

He added however that Gripen is an excellent aircraft for defending land and seaterritory

- Gripen is very well capable for survailance and control of airspace


The Sedish mod. is however surprised that Norway has put so much focus on bombing capabilities.


Article in Norwegian:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2878696.ece
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:33 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
The Swediss minister of defence admits that Gripen was'nt the best choice for Norway, considering Norway's needs.


No problem!

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
The Swedish defence minister still disagree that the Gripen would be much more expensive for Norway than the F 35 and he also dislikes the way the news of the desicion to scrap the gripen was presented

We never forgive you for that!  sarcastic 

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
First of all he says that wanted a fighter that can perform solo attacks against ground targets after having flown over enemy territory, defended by airdefence artillary

Iran? Irac? Afghanistan?

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Number 2, Norway wanted an aircraft that could operate and engadge in a fight far away from it's base. Also here, the stealth capabilities of the F 35 will be of significance to Norway.

Iran?,Irac? Afghanistan?

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Number 3, Norway wanted a plane with big and heavy weapons ment for ground targets in adittion to full armour for selfdefence.

Iran? Irac?,Afghanistan..?

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
He added however that Gripen is an excellent aircraft for defending land and seaterritory

Like Norway??

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
- Gripen is very well capable for survailance and control of airspace

Not the main objective obviously

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
The Sedish mod. is however surprised that Norway has put so much focus on bombing capabilities.

Don't also forget that the F-35 is an American made!
        

[Edited 2009-01-25 05:41:59]
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Kiqaboy
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:51 pm

Hej hur ar lagert, jag forsoker inte glomma Svenska.

I m not trying, but lets get back to the topic, i think that the client has always right, when a client comes to me i always have to agree what he reacquires, if he wants a crane to shot his clip i have to hire one, if he want's to edit his clip on final cut pro then i hire some one that has that.
BTW Gripen is a great AC i hope that my country some day will be able to make some money and bye some AC the Gripen would just be great for a territory like Kosova.

Kiqa
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:24 pm



Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 2):
Hej hur ar lagert, jag forsoker inte glomma Svenska.

Your Swedish is almost perfect  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 2):
I m not trying, but lets get back to the topic, i think that the client has always right, when a client comes to me i always have to agree what he reacquires

Absolutely! no one blame Norway for needing the F-35.

Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 2):
BTW Gripen is a great AC i hope that my country some day will be able to make some money and bye some AC the Gripen would just be great for a territory like Kosova

Just give SAAB a call  Wink
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F27Friendship
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Nor

Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:07 pm



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 1):
Don't also forget that the F-35 is an American made!

don't also forget that Norway is a member of NATO and Sweden is not. So all the similiarties your 2 countries might have do not apply for its military needs.
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:01 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 4):
don't also forget that Norway is a member of NATO and Sweden is not. So all the similiarties your 2 countries might have do not apply for its military needs.

I agree with you on that,never claimed anyting else,but reading Norweigen newspaper,it was not that uninportant that it was American made! No contract,less contact! was the word from US so i don't blame any NATO member for claiming it's choise regarding to future NATO op.
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Kiqaboy
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:03 pm

Yep i think i should call SAAB and tell them that I'm from the Ministry of Security of Kosova and just say bring 5 pics of Gripen and then i might put my government in trouble with SAAB  biggrin 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:20 pm



Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 6):
Tack so mycke jag tanker at komma til Sverige i Sommarn.

Välkommen!  wave  (Welcome)

Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 6):
Yep i think i should call SAAB and tell them that I'm from the Ministry of Security of Kosova and just say bring 5 pics of Gripen and then i might put my government in trouble with SAAB

Maybe you should keep a low profile  Wink
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Kiqaboy
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:52 pm

Actually I'm not from the government, btw witch countries has the Gripen now in their service beside Sweden
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 pm



Quoting Kiqaboy (Reply 8):
Actually I'm not from the government, btw witch countries has the Gripen now in their service beside Sweden

Hungary has 14. (NATO)
Czech republic has 14 (NATO)
South Africa has 26
Thailand have 6 to be delivered and another pos. for 6 later on.
ETPS has 2....i think...not sure! (European test pilot school)

Swiss are in the finals to make a decision on 20-30 fighters where rumors says that Gripen has good chances.

Usefull link: http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelations/Image_base.htm?intcmp=123456
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:08 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
considering Norway's needs

It's a shame Norway didn't manage to include these needs in the RBI. It would have saved Saab some  dollarsign  dollarsign  dollarsign 

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Norway wanted a plane with big and heavy weapons ment for ground targets in adittion to full armour for selfdefence.

No doubt the F-35 can carry more munition when using external stores, Gripen NG isn't half bad as a bomber. If I got my numbers right, any of the following four configurations will be quite sufficient:
- 6 NSM (JSM?)
- 8 GBU-12
- 4 GBU-10
- 24 SDB
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:51 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 4):

don't also forget that Norway is a member of NATO and Sweden is not. So all the similiarties your 2 countries might have do not apply for its military needs.

In the past the Danish used the SAAB Draken.
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:52 pm



Quoting Jabs (Reply 11):
In the past the Danish used the SAAB Draken.

and how is that relevant for the current situation?
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:24 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 12):
Quoting Jabs (Reply 11):
In the past the Danish used the SAAB Draken.

and how is that relevant for the current situation?

I think he was referring to the fact that Denmark was part of NATO when they operated the Draken (the true 'F-35'  Smile ) Perhaps they learned that sharing a platform with NATO allies Norway, Netherlands etc is better than sharing one with non-NATO members Sweden, Finland and Austria.
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:44 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 13):
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 12):
Quoting Jabs (Reply 11):
In the past the Danish used the SAAB Draken.

and how is that relevant for the current situation?

I think he was referring to the fact that Denmark was part of NATO when they operated the Draken (the true 'F-35' ) Perhaps they learned that sharing a platform with NATO allies Norway, Netherlands etc is better than sharing one with non-NATO members Sweden, Finland and Austria.

That's right!
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:59 pm



Quoting Jabs (Reply 14):
Quoting TGIF (Reply 13):
Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 12):
Quoting Jabs (Reply 11):
In the past the Danish used the SAAB Draken.

and how is that relevant for the current situation?

I think he was referring to the fact that Denmark was part of NATO when they operated the Draken (the true 'F-35' ) Perhaps they learned that sharing a platform with NATO allies Norway, Netherlands etc is better than sharing one with non-NATO members Sweden, Finland and Austria.

That's right!

The US put some pressure on Poland to choose the F-16 and not the Gripen.
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:27 am



Quoting TGIF (Reply 13):
I think he was referring to the fact that Denmark was part of NATO when they operated the Draken (the true 'F-35'   ) Perhaps they learned that sharing a platform with NATO allies Norway, Netherlands etc is better than sharing one with non-NATO members Sweden, Finland and Austria.



Quoting Jabs (Reply 14):
That's right!

ow ok.. I thought you were trying to draw the opposite conclusion from those facts
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:54 pm



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 16):
ow ok.. I thought you were trying to draw the opposite conclusion from those facts

No problem. I thought you were saying that was not a good idea a NATO country buying from a non-NATO country.
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:06 am



Quoting Jabs (Reply 17):
No problem. I thought you were saying that was not a good idea a NATO country buying from a non-NATO country.

I believe the Danish AF got very good service from the Drakens and I've never read that they had any real issues with the airplane. Bear in mind that Sweden builds fighters to meet its needs first and it follows they don't necessarily meet the needs of surrounding nations or nations around the world. Nevertheless, some nations find Swedish designed fighters meet their needs very well and this seems to be proving all the more true with the J39. I don't believe even the J35 saw as many exports as the J39 has and I suspect the newer fighter hasn't seen the last of its export possibilities.
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:28 am



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 18):
I believe the Danish AF got very good service from the Drakens and I've never read that they had any real issues with the airplane. Bear in mind that Sweden builds fighters to meet its needs first and it follows they don't necessarily meet the needs of surrounding nations or nations around the world. Nevertheless, some nations find Swedish designed fighters meet their needs very well and this seems to be proving all the more true with the J39. I don't believe even the J35 saw as many exports as the J39 has and I suspect the newer fighter hasn't seen the last of its export possibilities.

Very true  Smile But the Draken was a far more success regarding nr builds,totaly almost 700 units where built and Sweden had 600 of them and about 100 where in service abroad. Gripen has as of today ben build in approx. 210 units where 60-65 are to be doing service with other air forces. Hopefully there will be a couple more  Wink
Weather Denmark will take the same road as Norway ore maybe even go for the Gripen ore the F-18..?..it will probably not be a "swede"  optimist 
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F27Friendship
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Nor

Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:30 am



Quoting Jabs (Reply 17):
I thought you were saying that was not a good idea a NATO country buying from a non-NATO country.

I was (and I did not see the relevance of it happening in the past for this particular competition)

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 18):
Bear in mind that Sweden builds fighters to meet its needs first and it follows they don't necessarily meet the needs of surrounding nations or nations around the world.

and that is the whole issue

Sweden's needs in this case allign with those of Hungary, Czech republic and south-africa (and Switzerland and Austria for that matter) because they are only interested in guarding sovereign air space. These countries do not have any expeditionary ambitions like Norway, Denmark or the Netherlands (or Belgium, but it seams the're gonna buy F-35 off the shelve or not have any fast jets in the future at all)
 
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Norway

Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am



Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 20):
Sweden's needs in this case allign with those of Hungary, Czech republic and south-africa (and Switzerland and Austria for that matter)

Alas, there was a "misalignment" in Austria's case.....  Wink

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F27Friendship
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RE: Swedish MOD: Gripen Was'nt Best Choice For Nor

Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:12 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21):
Alas, there was a "misalignment" in Austria's case.....  

jep indeed.. the Eurofighter deal certainly was not in the best interest of the Austrian taxpayer if you ask me..

but then again, these buys are always highly political and for similar reasons the swiss might buy tranche 1/2 frames from germany (for which they will get tranche 3 frames themselves)

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