columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:24 pm

One question I always asked myself seeing Phantoms with different airforces still in service:

Which is the most advanced Phantom in service.

The German Phantoms e.g. use the radar of the F-18. Other nations have also upgraded their Phantoms as well. So which one is the most advanced ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:16 pm

Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.
 
ebj1248650
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:17 am

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:41 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 1):
Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.

I thought Turkey had upgraded theirs as well. How do theirs compare with the German F-4Fs?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:43 am



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 2):
Quoting GDB (Reply 1):
Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.

I thought Turkey had upgraded theirs as well. How do theirs compare with the German F-4Fs?


Me too. In fact, I thought the Turks got theirs close to the Phantom 2000 standard.

From http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf4_3.html#m3

In 1995, the Turkish government signed an agreement with IAI of Israel to update about 54 of Turkey's F-4Es. The update program included structural strengthening and an avionics improvement package similar to the Israeli Phantom 2000 configuration, but with some changes as per Turkish requirements, leading to the designation of "Phantom 2020". As with Israeli Phantom 2000s, Turkish Phantom 2020s have the ability to carry the big Popeye ASM, as that weapon is being acquired by the Turks.

There were some political delays in implementing the update program, but the first Phantom 2020 flew in 1999. In that same year, the THK issued a requirement for updating their RF-4Es as well. The THK hopes to keep their Phantoms in service until at least 2015.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 10997
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:01 am

I would think it is either the Israeli F-4Es or the JSDF F-4EJs are the most advanced Phantoms in the world, today. The Iranians have also upgraded the F-4D/Es and RF-4Es, but no one knows to what extent they have been modified.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:12 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Israeli F-4Es

I thought they are already retired.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
JSDF F-4EJs are the most advanced Phantoms

Would have been my guess, too.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:58 pm

I know the Japanese put the APG-66 radar and a host of other improvements into their F-4EJ's, but have they got AMRAAM capability or similar?
Certainly, the Turkish F-4's look better in the air to ground role than the German F-4's.
 
hunterson
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 2:02 am

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:57 am

The IDFAF Phantom-2000 Kurnass must be the most advanced and heavily modified amongst all the other F-4 Phantoms around. Their radar systems and avionics were upgraded to incorporate equipment originally intended for the cancelled Lavy programme, and subsequently deployed on the F-16 I Sufa, and their weapon suite was also modified to include both the Popeye stand-off ASM and a whole family of domestically developed laser guided attack munitions. They also kept and upgraded their air-air capabilities with provision to carry Python-4 and Python-5 all-aspect dogfighting AAMs as well as their original Sparrows and Sidewinders ( ans possibly AMRAAMs ).

It is not entirely clear if the 50 Phantom-2000 Kurnasses brought up to this standard are still in "front-line" squadron service, but original plans laid down when the programme was initiated by the IDFAF in the mid-to -late 1990s envisaged them to remain in service until at least 2012.

My guess is that they are indeed still in service, probably in reserve squadrons which can be swiftly activated into front-line duties upon general mobilization just like other Israeli squadrons which still operate Kfir C-7s and A-4 Skyhawks.
 
bilgerat
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:43 pm

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:06 am

Re the Iranian Phantoms, a recent article in Combat Aircraft about the IRIAF had some interesting info. In summary:

The IRIAF has on strength 12 F-4D, 64 F-4E and 6 RF-4E.

Most of the IRIAF F-4s have recently been rebuilt/upgraded to extend their service life.

Like many other types used by the IRIAF they have been modifying the aircraft to use different weapons. In the case of the F-4s they have apparently been modified to use the Russian Kh-58 (AS-11 Kilter), the Chinese C802K-2 (as well as its indiginous version, the "Noor"), the Iranian Sattar-3 laser guided missile and Kite-2000 submunitions dispenser, as well as a range of electro-optically guided weapons based on the AGM-65 seeker heads and Mk.80 series warheads. The article also states the Iranians have tried to fit the R-27 and R-73 missiles to the F-4 without success and they continue to carry the AIM-7.

It's an interesting article, well worth reading (an F-14A with R-73 and helmet mounted sight, anyone?). Combat Aircraft magazine, Volume 8, number 6.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 10997
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:42 am



Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 8):
The IRIAF has on strength 12 F-4D, 64 F-4E and 6 RF-4E.

Most of the IRIAF F-4s have recently been rebuilt/upgraded to extend their service life.

Thank you for the update on the Iranian F-4s, BilgeRat.
 
Jabs
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:32 am

RE: The Most Advanced F-4 Phantom In Service

Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:58 pm

The Turkish Phantom upgrade is called "Terminator 2020" it seems to focus more on the ground attack capabilities.

The Greek Phantom upgrade is called "Peace Icarus" and the Greeks say that's a 100% "ICE" (Improved Combat Efficiency), as the German F4F upgrade programme was called.
"Peace Icarus" also includes AIFF antennas.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests