Lumberton
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Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:32 pm

The problems with the reconditioned Russian carrier are amply laid out on this thread:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/65883/

My last post on that thread detailed the latest Russian demands and cost escalation on the former Russian CV Admiral Gorshkov. The Russians are also demanding an additional payment, bringing the total cost of the carrier to almost three billion U.S. dollars--with no guarantee that this will be the last demand. This is a shakedown, pure and simple.

With a new Administration in Washington DC, perhaps its time to take a big step in our relations with India? India desperately wants a carrier, but does not have the capability to build a large deck CV within the next five years, to say nothing of laying in the logistic support or the air wing.

Is the time right for the Obama administration to offer a late-build NIMITZ class carrier to India? Of course, one can't just offer the carrier; it comes with an incredible logistic tail comprising training, MRO, and---the AIR WING. This carrier could be packaged with an entire ready-to-use air wing.

We have what...12 carriers in commission. Clearly, the "world policeman" days are over. This could be an opportunity to build a long lasting strategic alliance with a major democracy in a part of the world where democracy could use a boost.

I'm not suggesting a give away. This would be a sale, conditional upon purchasing the whole package. In return, the U.S. Government would have to offer India iron clad guarantees of logistic support under any conditions, short of using the carrier air wing against NATO or the U.S. itself.

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STT757
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:01 pm

I don't think that's a good idea right now especially since the US is trying to fix that cluster you know what that is Pakistan, I don't think an arms race helps us get more cooperation from Pakistan against radicals in their Northern territories.
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windy95
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:14 am

I like the idea. The Indians are used to handling carriers and nuke power so the training and buildup would not as difficult. Selling an older one would also open the door for a new build for our Navy keeping the line going and job's intact. And it would help cement relations with a rising power in that part of the world. It may also help with the sale of F/A-18's as part of the deal. Keeping the logistics line open for the CV and aircraft would also help with jobs here in the states. It could also open up future purchases of other Naval ships.
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Clearly, the "world policeman" days are over

You actually bought into that non-American propanganda??? I thought the US was protecting their interest.  Smile

Not sure I agree with the thought on a couple levels, out of WWII India was a US ally, somehow that went off and most of their military was supplied by the Russians, now they are cozy with the US military again, before I'm slammed, I am only speaking from military sales point of view. India is now a nuclear power in terms of bombs, and they really want the Indian Ocean to be that in more than name only, they may be an ally now, but India will do what is in the best interest of India, why would you want to give them a weapon system such as a carrier battle group which allows them to project power and deny access?

India is a large country with a large population, they took a lot of their resources to go nuclear, some may say at the expense of some levels of the population, should you continue to push such actions by selling them this weapon system in the hope of getting a supply train, if anything, India has shown a propensity to develop their own, if they cannot now, they will certainely do all in their power to ensure that they are not tied to the US supply train. In the end, other than the purchase price, the secondary economic value will not last long, and you will have provided a country with one of the more sophisticated weapon systems around, you really believe this sale would provide you with more political and military influence over their actions? If that works, you may also look into selling them to China and Russia, lots of money to be made there.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:26 am

Why sell a CVN when we have the oil burner CVs Kitty Hawk, Connie, and Forrestal available for sale to India? True, all three of these CVs would need a massive refit, but that can be done either in a US or Indian shipyard (does India have a shipyard/dry dock big enough to handle an 80,000 ton + Super CV?).
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:35 am

Until the George Washington arrived in Japan last fall there had not been a USN nuclear powered carrier based on foreign soil. We will have commercial orbital flights before the USN allows US nuclear technology go to anybody but our closest allies (the British is the only one I know of that has received such).

However, there is a relatively modern carrier that was just decomisioned, the Kitty Hawk. It was good enough for the USN right up to last October. I could see it go to India possibly.
 
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:34 am

What aircrafts would have been operated from the russian ex carrier? Western types?
 
dragon6172
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:33 am



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
We have what...12 carriers in commission.

11 plus one being built actually.
Enterprise
Nimitz
Ike
Vinson
Roosevelt
Lincoln
Washington
Stennis
Truman
Reagan
Bush
Ford (under construction)

All nuclear. Once the Ford commisions the Enterprise retires. The first three of the Nimitz ships have undergone their midlife upgrades and re-fuels. Unlikey to give them up when so much was just spent on them. I would say one of the decommisioned fuel burning carriers is a more likely option, if it were to happen at all.
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bennett123
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:17 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Forrestal_(CV-59)

Assuming that it is still afloat, it is over 50 years old.

The other two, (Kitty Hawk and Constellation) were commissioned in 1961.

Does India really NEED such elderly carriers.
 
nomadd22
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:40 pm

The reason that the US retires nuke carriers isn't just because they have a new design. It's because refueling them and refitting them would cost half as much as building a new carrier, and you'd still have an old 60s design vessel.
India is second to none in technical ability and fighter ops. They've given the US a humility lesson or two in excercises, and I really don't think they need to keep buying hand me downs. Better to invest in shipyards and infrastructure to build their own.
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Lumberton
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:01 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 9):
The reason that the US retires nuke carriers

OK, when was the last time the U.S. retired a nuke carrier?

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 9):
India is second to none in technical ability and fighter ops

OK, how is their carrier coming along? They are in the process of building a 40K ton "carrier", but AFAIK it isn't far along. One just doesn't start from scratch and design and build a NIMITZ. It took a few years experience for the US to get to the point.

If India wanted to cut 20 years or so out of the development cycle, IMO they'd jump at the chance to buy a NIMITZ if it was offered to them. After all, why did they go for the Gorshkov? Obviously, to get an operational carrier as soon as possible. Since the Russians have failed to perform and/or are engaged in a shakedown, the Indian Navy must look at other options.
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nomadd22
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:02 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 10):


Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 9):
The reason that the US retires nuke carriers

OK, when was the last time the U.S. retired a nuke carrier?

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 9):
India is second to none in technical ability and fighter ops

OK, how is their carrier coming along? They are in the process of building a 40K ton "carrier", but AFAIK it isn't far along. One just doesn't start from scratch and design and build a NIMITZ. It took a few years experience for the US to get to the point.

If India wanted to cut 20 years or so out of the development cycle, IMO they'd jump at the chance to buy a NIMITZ if it was offered to them. After all, why did they go for the Gorshkov? Obviously, to get an operational carrier as soon as possible. Since the Russians have failed to perform and/or are engaged in a shakedown, the Indian Navy must look at other options.

The US obviously has Enterprise scheduled for retirement and doesn't plan to keep Nimitz much after it's replacement comes up. Do you thiink they don't have reasons or are you just using semantics to argue a non point? The difficulty in refueling and refurbishing a 50 year old nuke carrier isn't exactly a state secret.
India's homebuilt carrier will probably be online before the ever see the Gorshkov. They obviously made a mistake and know it at this point.
No telling where you think they're going to get a Nimitz class since you don't think there are any reasons to retire them.
Anon
 
curlyheadboy
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:07 pm

Let's fancy then!  Smile What about the possible Indian Air Wing on a Nimitz carrier, would it be difficult for India to adapt the SUs to the new ship? Would they need to bring in the deal/buy some Hornets or maybe wait for the F-35s?
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Lumberton
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:17 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 11):
No telling where you think they're going to get a Nimitz class since you don't think there are any reasons to retire them.

You said:

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 9):
The reason that the US retires nuke carriers

That clearly infers that we have retired nuke carriers. We haven't.

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 11):
The difficulty in refueling and refurbishing a 50 year old nuke carrier isn't exactly a state secret.

We broke the code on this awhile back, i.e., we've done it more than once or twice. Enterprise is well over 45 years old; I believe she was refueled first time in the early '80s.

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 11):
No telling where you think they're going to get a Nimitz class since you don't think there are any reasons to retire them.

Re-read the post I made when I started this thread.

Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Is the time right for the Obama administration to offer a late-build NIMITZ class carrier to India?

Obviously, one doesn't go to Home Depot and buy one. It would have to come from the existing inventory.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Lumberton
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:24 pm



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 12):
What about the possible Indian Air Wing on a Nimitz carrier, would it be difficult for India to adapt the SUs to the new ship? Would they need to bring in the deal/buy some Hornets or maybe wait for the F-35s?

Not sure the non-US aircraft would stand up to cat shots and arrested landings without significant re-work. As I noted in my initial post, I was pushing the NIMITZ CV as a package deal, which includes: training, logistic support, air wing. Personally, I'd push for FA-18s, but in today's world, everything is negotiable. Given that the Russians are shaking them down on the Gorshkov, I don't think they'd be in the mood top buy MiGs. But that is only an opinion....
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Stitch
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:32 pm

I can't see the USN giving up a late-model Nimitz even if they get an extra Ford class out of the deal (which would be unlikely).

Also, while giving India a modern CVN could boot relations with them, it would strain relations with China, who would see such a thing as a serious threat to their own desires to exert some modicum of control over the sea-lanes of South Asia. A CVN would allow India to roam the Indian and South Pacific Oceans to their heart's content and with modern Soviet or US naval aircraft aboard, they could give China some grief. This would likely cause China to respond with more advanced SSNs to break an Indian (and, but extension, a US) CVN's protective screen or even moving to something like nuclear-tipped VA-111 Shkvals to engage at stand-off ranges.

Either way, it could lead to a "South Asian Arms Race" and I am not sure the US benefits from such a thing...
 
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:07 pm

Consider the Indian Navy, if I have it right, is a mix of Russian, a lot of domestic Indian and even some legacy British designs,
Then plonk a 5000 crew ship of US origin right into that, of a size far greater than anything they've ever operated, whose experience of nuclear propulsion is limited to some ex Soviet subs, which probably would disrupt and drain the rest of the fleet resource wise.

What would it be used for? Not saying India does not need a new carrier or two as such, but a Nimitz class is a hell of a leap.
 
LMP737
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:24 am



Quoting GDB (Reply 16):
Consider the Indian Navy, if I have it right, is a mix of Russian, a lot of domestic Indian and even some legacy British designs,
Then plonk a 5000 crew ship of US origin right into that, of a size far greater than anything they've ever operated, whose experience of nuclear propulsion is limited to some ex Soviet subs, which probably would disrupt and drain the rest of the fleet resource wise.

While the Indian Navy has operated carriers for a long time they have not operated carriers with cats and arresting gear for a number of years. Add to that the fact a Nimitz class carrier is three times the size and requires three times the manpower of what the Indian Navy currently operates. It would also require more unrep ships to keep the ship supplied. So were not just talking about one ship.

When the USN takes delivery of a new Nimitz class carrier it's a couple of years before the first deployment. Even though the USN has been operating Nimitz class carriers for over thirty years it still takes time for a new crew to become proficient. In the case of the Indian Navy not only would they be operating a ship they have never operated before but aircraft they have not operated. Along with that a style of operations they have not used in a long time.

Could they conceivably acquire one and eventually become proficient at it? Of course they could. However there would be on hell of a learning curve and it would take a lot longer than it does in the USN.
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:12 pm

If a Nimitz is too much, presumably the UK wouldn't mind selling India one of the new QE-class carriers? Both nations have a lot in common, they both speak English, they both love cricket and tea, they both drive on the wrong side of the road, etc. It'd also get India into the F35 game, which presumably Pakistan will enter at some point also, since they are a F16 operator.
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bennett123
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:56 pm

Revelation

"Both nations have a lot in common, they both speak English, they both love cricket and tea, they both drive on the wrong side of the road, etc."

To quote John McInroe, "you ca'nt be serious man"  Smile
 
johns624
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:43 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
It'd also get India into the F35 game, which presumably Pakistan will enter at some point also, since they are a F16 operator.

I don't think that Pakistan will ever get F35's. We don't "like" them as much as we used to.
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:47 pm



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 19):
To quote John McInroe, "you ca'nt be serious man"

And here I was thinking detante was lost  Smile

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 20):
I don't think that Pakistan will ever get F35's. We don't "like" them as much as we used to.

This thread is about selling a CV /CVN to India, the relationship between them is well known, if this is done there has to be some form of quid pro quo between the forces in the region, as a CV/CVN is a massive weapons system capabale of great influence.
The Chinese will have to get the F-22 - lower the price for the additional 100 or so the US Air Force wants - and Pakistan will have to get the F-35, no one wants either of these three setting off any of the nukes that they have.
 
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:26 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 21):
The Chinese will have to get the F-22 - lower the price for the additional 100 or so the US Air Force wants - and Pakistan will have to get the F-35, no one wants either of these three setting off any of the nukes that they have.

Sell the F22 to the Chinese? You must be kidding! Maybe if we sold a carrier to India (not that I think we would), it would be exactly to tip the scales and show everyone who we think should be the regional power in South Asia. Selling a CVN to India, F22's to China, and F35's to Pakistan would keep the status quo. Why even bother?
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:34 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 21):
The Chinese will have to get the F-22 - l

Why not sell the Chinese retired US peacekeeper missiles then  Wink

Sorry but being an armchair CEO is common on A.net, armchair minister of defense is even worse, though  Wink

But no offense intended, I guess you know how realistic selling F-22 to China is yourself...
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:02 pm



Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 23):
But no offense intended, I guess you know how realistic selling F-22 to China is yourself...

Now you get my whole point, I think even thinking about selling a CV/CVN of the US class is a non-started, it creates and opens up too many problem areas.
I took the OP as starting a serious thread, so if the carrier was sold to India how would the Chinese react, much less Pakistan and even Russia? When weapons are supplied to Taiwan they do take the Chinese into consideration, but we are to believe that they will sell a weapons system of this magnitude to India without considering the ramifications on her neighbours? Speculate for a second on what would have to be provided and then see if the ideas are so far fetched, they cannot offer the China and Pakistan money because that will negate the reason for the sale, so what makes up the quid pro quo?

The US spent billions of dollars and countless hours developing and perfecting the technologies presently being used in it's carrier fleet, if other countries want that they should make the sacrifice for themselves. Everything a country designs and develops cannot be for sale, at time you have to let others get things for themselves.

Cheers
 
ANZUS340
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:06 pm

How much per day does it cost to run a CV/CVN the size of the JFK/Nimitz?
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:21 pm



Quoting ANZUS340 (Reply 25):
How much per day does it cost to run a CV/CVN the size of the JFK/Nimitz?

The synics could say that's a reason for selling such a ship to someone, it ties up so much of their resources they cannot adquately take care of their people, in this case the nation sacrifice would be on keeping the ship in operation rather than on design and development.
 
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:09 pm



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 19):
To quote John McInroe, "you ca'nt be serious man" Smile

Tongue was in cheek (thought the tea and cricket part would give it away), but to be serious, I have no idea how UK-India relations are these days.

Quoting Johns624 (Reply 22):
Selling a CVN to India, F22's to China, and F35's to Pakistan would keep the status quo. Why even bother?

I agree, and would also say it'd raise the bar on the status quo, which is not in the US's interest. I think the US wants to keep the F22 to itself, only sell F35 to aligned nations, and let the others stay with former Soviet block technology.

Weapons purchases is one of the few levers the US has on Pakistan, and Pakistan could (at least in theory, if it could get its act together) have a great impact on the Afghanistan situation. Given this, I think there's some small chance that Pakistan may get some stripped-down F35s at some point in the future in return for proof of better control over their "tribal regions". I'm not saying this is a good idea, I'm just saying I could see it happen.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:32 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 24):

I understand your point, the question, of course, would be, what does it take to make a Nimitz-carrier a deadly warmachine. I guess the freezing rooms for the food and the metal structure itself would not be any problem. The nuclear power is something else, but even more problematic would be the electronic systems. Now if you strip all those parts before selling, would the ship still be interesting for buyers?
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:19 pm

TheSonntag most if not all may have/need to remain, remember the carrier relies more on its escorts rather than its own resources, certainely some battle management and CIC software etc. will have to be removed, but if the nuclear powerplant is not a problem, the rest should be good to go.
A question already out there is what type a/c would they use, Harriers, Migs and or F-18's. Depending on the asking price, a squadron of F-18's may be in order, failing that, simply modify their Migs to use US carrier technology, if done locally, they would be able to get it done, asking the OEM to modify may not be in order.
 
GDB
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:47 pm

India might have missed a chance in getting the former French carrier that was subsequently sold to Brazil.
(Then again, France missed out maybe too, in not retaining it until, one day, a 2nd vessel was available to supplement CDG. The other one, with it's convoluted journey to scrappers who don't want it - it's arrived in the UK now, providing long term spares).

Certainly would have been easier that the clusterf**k they are having with that ex Russian vessel.

While I'm sure BMT would welcome a 3rd vessel in the CVF class to be built, I don't really see India going for one of those either.
Since really, that means getting the F-35B, which may well not happen.
As the French have seemingly put on ice their plans for a modified CVF with catapult launch, they'd end up paying to develop such a very different version (internally) to CVF, but what a way to pitch the Rafale to India as part of the fighter competition it's bidding for now.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:43 pm

Can Russian planes land on US carriers, with modifications?
 
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par13del
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:56 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 30):
Can Russian planes land on US carriers, with modifications?

Landing may not be the problem, takeoff might, I think the naval versions of the Mig29 are designed to use a ski jump take off, refitting heavier nose gear for cat shots may play merry hell with the a/c handling but it should be doable. If push comes to show, install a ramp up front and presto, back in business. May not look pretty but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:46 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
(does India have a shipyard/dry dock big enough to handle an 80,000 ton + Super CV?).

They sure do, Cochin is big enough.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 10):
OK, how is their carrier coming along? They are in the process of building a 40K ton "carrier", but AFAIK it isn't far along.

It's coming along quite nicely.

Quoting GDB (Reply 30):
As the French have seemingly put on ice their plans for a modified CVF with catapult launch, they'd end up paying to develop such a very different version (internally) to CVF, but what a way to pitch the Rafale to India as part of the fighter competition it's bidding for now.

The conventional version of CVF the PA2 was developed at the same time as CVF it's only a matter of building it, IMO opinion it would be a good choice for the Indians, they would have to buy F18, F35 or Rafael's.
 
ThePointblank
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:07 am

How about a America-class LHA? Same size as the Gorshkov, and if fitted with a ski-ramp, would work for the Indians in terms of size.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:18 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 33):
It's coming along quite nicely.

The keel is scheduled to be laid the end of this month.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3965175&c=ASI&s=SEA

Quote:
The navy said the keel-laying ceremony for the vessel would be held Feb. 28, but production of components for the 858-foot ship had already begun.



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 34):
How about a America-class LHA?

At 40000 tons, it sounds like that's where they're going size-wise.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&ct=4&tid=400

Quote:
General Characteristics, Tarawa Class
Builder: Ingalls Shipbuilding, Pascagoula, MS.
Date Deployed: May 29, 1976 (USS Tarawa)
Propulsion: Two boilers, two geared steam turbines, two shafts, 70,000 total shaft horsepower.
Length: 820 feet (249.9 meters).
Beam: 106 feet (31.8 meters).
Displacement: 39,400 tons (40,032 metric tons) full load.

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
astuteman
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RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:47 am



Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 5):
We will have commercial orbital flights before the USN allows US nuclear technology go to anybody but our closest allies (the British is the only one I know of that has received such).

That said, in the Power Generation world, you might want to look at the list of countries that the US government is allowing Westinghouse to pitch the AP1000 PWR to and GE to pitch their BWR design to.....  Smile

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
presumably the UK wouldn't mind selling India one of the new QE-class carriers?

Could they wait that long?....  duck 

Rgds
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:18 pm



Quoting Rheinwaldner (Reply 6):
What aircrafts would have been operated from the russian ex carrier? Western types?

Nope, a mix of MiG-29Ks and Ka-31s.

Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 12):
would it be difficult for India to adapt the SUs to the new ship?

It'd require pretty much a new variant or purchase of Su-33s from the Russians. Not only would the landing gear have to be beefed up as Par13del mentioned in his reply, but the entire structure of the aircraft would have to be beefed up. Keep in mind an arrested landing is often compared to a controlled crash for a reason.

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
Enterprise is well over 45 years old; I believe she was refueled first time in the early '80s.

Nope - her first refueling was in '64, believe it or not. Her next refuel was in 1969/70 followed by subsequent refuelings in her 1979-1982 overhaul and her 1990-1994 overhaul.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 32):

Landing may not be the problem, takeoff might, I think the naval versions of the Mig29 are designed to use a ski jump take off, refitting heavier nose gear for cat shots may play merry hell with the a/c handling but it should be doable. If push comes to show, install a ramp up front and presto, back in business. May not look pretty but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Correct, the naval versions of the MiG-29 and Su-27 both were designed for STOBAR operations - ski jump takeoffs with arrested recoveries.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Mike89406
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:05 pm

RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:45 am



Quoting ANZUS340 (Reply 25):
How much per day does it cost to run a CV/CVN the size of the JFK/Nimitz?

Assuming the Carrier is on Deployment with full crew Airwing Ops etc...over 1 million Dollars a day.

Mike
 
747400sp
Posts: 3900
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:05 pm

As Stated earlier, the Kitty Hawk, Constellation and the JFK are retired now, so if they what a super carrier that bad, they should buy an old CV. Think about the money that fixing those ships would bring to an US or Indian ship yard, it would also be nice to see an old burning super carrier on the high seas again.
 
QFMel
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:55 pm

RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:38 am

IIRC when Australia first considered replacements for the Oberon SSKs in the late 1970s- the replacement that became the Collins class- there arrangement would be struck along the lines of the FFG7 deal, albeit with some considerable complications.

Namely:

-There were rumours that the USN may be open to early (pre 688 VLS/688i) build Los Angeles class subs being sold to the RAN on the basis that a non-nuclear propulsion system could be readily installed.

-Assembly of new boats/refitting to be split between Newport News etc and some modification in Williamstown or elsewhere (mirrors Adelaide class deal, we got new builds from Todd shipyards with some modifications here- quality control issues were certainly reported- and two built at Williamstown, although that part at least I doubt that was ever even rumoured, I don't think it was floated that we would build a 688 SSK from scratch).

There are a million reasons why such a thing would never eventuate. Notwithstanding propulsion issues, a CVN is a massive undertaking to deploy, to maintain, and the mind boggles at a CODOG or similar Nimitz. More to the point it's not something India is in desperate need of in view of the indigenous carrier program. As for the air wing, there'd be nothing wrong with selling the Hornets, but India would be mad to take anything second-hand when they can get a better deal on new builds in bulk- there would remain tech transfer issues on the Prowlers, Hawkeyes and the like.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Would A Nimitz Class CV Work For The Indian Navy?

Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:34 am



Quoting 747400sp (Reply 39):
be nice to see an old burning super carrier on the high seas again.

That would be the the Forrestal then. Scheduled to be turned into a reef I understand....
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