greaser
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CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:04 am

Don't know who saw the 'investigative' piece by CNN today, but arguing that further F-22 production is unneeded "because we are not fighting China or Russia", but "fighting a deficit", come on. I know Robert Gates said 180-190 is enough, but I think a lot of brass disagree. The F-22 is an investment in air superiority. CNN's claim is that the program is being run solely for jobs, and that we wont need them anyway because 'most of the countries we attack don't have significant AA ability'. It's amazing how quickly people forget why the US (and any other country) gets caught off guard.
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greaser
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:11 am

Now you're really flying
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:10 am

I seem to recall a F-117 got shot down over Bosnia, which isn't Russia or China but they had Russian equipment. AA technology is for sale to whomever can afford it.
What the...?
 
osiris30
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:01 am

CNN has gone right downhill ever since Turner sold it. While there is certainly some truth to the fact that the US deficit is troubling, the only reason it's getting any play is because Iraq is quiet and no planes have crashed/hurricanes/earthquakes/etc. exist to have them terrify their viewers.

CNN has become just as bad as Fox for sensationalizing things. Just with a different spin.
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Revelation
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:45 am



Quoting Greaser (Thread starter):
CNN's claim is that the program is being run solely for jobs

Aren't we doing a lot of that kind of thing anyway, with support from both political parties?
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keesje
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:41 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
CNN's claim is that the program is being run solely for jobs

Aren't we doing a lot of that kind of thing anyway, with support from both political parties?

Its happening all over the world. Governments & their electorates hate to close good companies / product lines & put skilled labor forces & their families on the street.

Free market mechanism are put in the fridge.. Who would have thought so 2 yrs ago.


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MCIGuy
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:41 pm

I'd rather have them and not need them then to need them and not have them.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 2):
I seem to recall a F-117 got shot down over Bosnia, which isn't Russia or China but they had Russian equipment. AA technology is for sale to whomever can afford it.

Yeah, I've related this here before but it was a lucky shot with a low frequency radar, very hard to duplicate.
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kingairta
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:54 pm



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 6):
but it was a lucky shot with a low frequency radar, very hard to duplicate.

It wasn't all that lucky. One of the pilots I flew with operated F117s over Bosnia during that time. Entry and exit corridors were very limited not only in airspace but time as well. After a few runs through those corridors the radar operators learned what to look for and were able to lock in on it.

Killing the F22 at this time will do nothing for stimulus. I really can't stand the news outlets anymore.
 
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:07 pm



Quoting KingairTA (Reply 7):
It wasn't all that lucky. One of the pilots I flew with operated F117s over Bosnia during that time. Entry and exit corridors were very limited not only in airspace but time as well. After a few runs through those corridors the radar operators learned what to look for and were able to lock in on it.

Sure, predictable ingress/egress paths do make things easier for an adversary. That could be fixed with better planning and ROEs. Still, low freq radars show every little speck in the sky as well as some ground clutter, so it's a matter of picking the right return to make sure you're not shooting at a bug. The flight paths also wouldn't be as predictable in a full scale war, making things tougher for air defense people.
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JakeOrion
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:34 pm

Ahhh yes, and what is CNN's solution to our already aging F-15 fleet? Hell, there's not near enough F-22s as it is now.
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BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:39 pm

The F-117 shoot down never should have happened. The Air Force let their guard down and became complacent.
The F-22 has become the media's favorite whipping boy as an example of government waste. There are all of these journalists trying to make a name for themselves by slamming the greatest fighter ever made. If any of them knew just how good the F-22 is, they'd change their tune pretty quickly.
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greaser
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:03 pm



Quoting KingairTA (Reply 7):
I really can't stand the news outlets anymore.

The slant on the news is terrible, and has only gotten worse. The BBC and PBS are two of a few legit sources. They dont put emotion and opinion so blatantly in as it is in the case for CNN's reporting on the F-22, the C-17, and the Commanche
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max550
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:49 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 9):
Ahhh yes, and what is CNN's solution to our already aging F-15 fleet?

It's especially interesting when they also sensationalize every crash an F-15 has and say that the type is falling apart and should all be pulled from service. (I know they didn't go that far, but you know what I mean)
 
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:19 pm



Quoting Greaser (Thread starter):
I know Robert Gates
said 180-190 is enough, but I think a lot of brass disagree.

Just like 100,000 troops was enough to hold Iraq? (It was, but Iraq got rotted out in the process).

Besides, what is "enough?" What if that calculation is slightly wrong? Is that really something we want to think about? This is the most important global dominance/defense weapon we are going to have, in some ways.

Quoting Greaser (Thread starter):
but arguing that further F-22 production is unneeded "because we are not fighting China or Russia",

Of course we have to be on guard versus China. Should we wait until a serious problem with China to start inventing the technology to defeat them? I don't think our military wants to be outclassed by Hu Jintao's forces. That would alter world geopolitics in strange new ways.
 
joperrin89
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:40 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
but arguing that further F-22 production is unneeded "because we are not fighting China or Russia",

Yes this is a rediculas claim from CNN. Almost if not every country, terrorist orginazation ect, that is hostile tward the United States uses either Russian or Chinese weapons.

Have we allready forgotten Vietnam??? We were fighting North Vietnam, not china or Russia. The VC and north vietnamese were using almost nothing but state of the art Soviet SAM's and MIG's.

The F-22 is a long term investment in the superiority of the United States Air Force. It frustrates and saddens me that so many in the media cannot see this.
 
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting Max550 (Reply 12):
It's especially interesting when they also sensationalize every crash an F-15 has and say that the type is falling apart and should all be pulled from service. (I know they didn't go that far, but you know what I mean)

No, the practically said it (or at least strongly implied.) Things to ponder, eh?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
Besides, what is "enough?"

To answer this question, you must look at where the world's militarys stand as of now. I would say about 600 F-22s are sufficient for today's needs. Now, if China/Russia/N. Korea/etc start to mass produce combat jets (thousands), then of course 600 would not be enough.
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Venus6971
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:17 pm



Quoting KingairTA (Reply 7):
It wasn't all that lucky. One of the pilots I flew with operated F117s over Bosnia during that time. Entry and exit corridors were very limited not only in airspace but time as well. After a few runs through those corridors the radar operators learned what to look for and were able to lock in on it.

Plus our opsec was horrible plus we underestimated the Serbs.
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BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:17 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 15):
I would say about 600 F-22s are sufficient for today's needs.

That number sounds about right. We don't want to limit ourselves to being just a little better. We don't want to win when we can dominate. The government shouldn't accept a 12:1 kill ratio when 20:1 is possible. With the F-22, the USAF can control any piece of airspace it wants. It really bugs me to see the liberal media always dumping on the armed forces while applauding the government handing out bailouts to anyone who wants one.
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joperrin89
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:34 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
That number sounds about right. We don't want to limit ourselves to being just a little better. We don't want to win when we can dominate. The government shouldn't accept a 12:1 kill ratio when 20:1 is possible. With the F-22, the USAF can control any piece of airspace it wants

Very true. Training is the thing that has kept US fighters superior to that of other nations for the last 60 years. As good as the F-22 is, well trained pilots is the only thing that is going to give the USAF a 20:1 kill ratio. Well... and the fact that you can barely see the F-22 on a radar screen  Wink
 
HaveBlue
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:26 am

I think we need the F-22. Yes it is expensive and that concerns me but there are a few things to think about here... no war has been won in the last 50+ years without having air superiority. If there is one thing the U.S. armed services is good at, its is air supremacy. Now I do believe that the F-15s and F-16 would do extremely well against most countries we are likely to have a problem with, but they are old and there is at least parity out there if not outright superior planes in other countries hands. Imo we need THE best fighter, period.

I realize the F-22 would make more sense during the cold war where we were faced with the prospect of large numbers of well trained fighter pilots/bombers and epic aerial battles would happen ala WWII/Korea. But even though we are in guerilla warfare in 3rd world countries right now we cannot NOT have the best fighter. It took almost 20 years for the F-22 to hit the line from getting the green light. Things in the world change fast and if we didn't have the 22 and things change in a few years and we did need it... well then it's too late.

Better to have the F-22 and not need it, then the other way around.
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Vega9000
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:41 am

I'm no expert, but from what I'm reading in several politics blogs, and since Robert Gates opposes the program, I think the F-22 is probably dead. Most likely replaced by the F-35.
But in order to kill such a program, you have to predispose the public against it, so I think this is probably the first wave of a "anti F-22" media blitz.

Anyway, if you haven't read it already, here's an excellent article about it in this month's Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:02 am



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 3):
CNN has gone right downhill ever since Turner sold it.

Was CNN ever on top of the hill? They have never gotten any news story right. Thanks to when Ted Turner did own it.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:31 am



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 2):
seem to recall a F-117 got shot down over Bosnia

It wasn't shot over Bosnia, but Serbia in 1999. Picture from the museum:
http://www.pbase.com/vmarinkovic/image/3308190

BEG2IAH
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joperrin89
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:48 am



Quoting Vega9000 (Reply 20):
But in order to kill such a program, you have to predispose the public against it

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the Pentagon does not take public opinion about a particular aircraft into account when they decide weather or not to cancel it. Look how popular the Comanche helicopter was, it was in TV shows, books, i think i even saw a really cheesy made-for-TV movie that had one, and the Comanche program is long gone. Same with the SR-71 Blackbird, very popular in the public eye, now its long gone.

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 19):
Now I do believe that the F-15s and F-16 would do extremely well against most countries

I agree. The F-15 is still a lethal air supremacy fighter despite its age. Prediction- If the Pentagon does decide to cancel the F-22 program, in 20 years when China has its first stealth fighter, they are gonna be wishing they had the F-22.
 
BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:03 am



Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 19):
Now I do believe that the F-15s and F-16 would do extremely well against most countries we are likely to have a problem with, but they are old and there is at least parity out there if not outright superior planes in other countries hands.

We would fare just fine, but mostly because of having superior pilots. I believe we should give our pilots the best equipment possible. Why would we play Jalen Rose when we could play Michael Jordan? There is no reason to leave the world's finest fighter on the drawing board when the goverment is passing out money to everyone else.
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bennett123
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:54 pm

Some people seem to think that giving a blank cheque to the DoD is actually a good idea.

You do have to balance the various things that money can be spent on.
 
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SAS A340
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:56 pm

I have followed this from backstage for a while,could it be right to assume that god news for the F-22 (more ordered) are bad news for the F-35(less ordered)
Read that they will take money from the JSF project to finance more F-22....
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MCIGuy
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:08 pm



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 26):
I have followed this from backstage for a while,could it be right to assume that god news for the F-22 (more ordered) are bad news for the F-35(less ordered)
Read that they will take money from the JSF project to finance more F-22....

Only in the short term. They want to do a smaller initial F-35 buy over the next few years in order to afford more Raptors. We'd still get the same number of Lightnings in the long run, just later than we would have.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 25):
Some people seem to think that giving a blank cheque to the DoD is actually a good idea.

You do have to balance the various things that money can be spent on.

I agree, much "robbing Peter to pay Paul". But, as someone said above, they who control the sky control the war, so I'm thinking we'd be perfectly justified in diverting money from other programs. I can think of at least five things off the top of my head where the money would be better spent on more Raptors. I truly feel that the Raptor is the single most important weapon system currently in our inventory.
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BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:01 pm



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 25):
Some people seem to think that giving a blank cheque to the DoD is actually a good idea.



Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 27):
they who control the sky control the war, so I'm thinking we'd be perfectly justified in diverting money from other programs.

Well, the government just passed out $800,000,000,000 and couldn't give more than 4.5 billion to DoD. It is ridiculous that agriculture, rural aid, and FDA get four times as much.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
HaveBlue
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:46 pm



Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 22):
It wasn't shot over Bosnia, but Serbia in 1999. Picture from the museum:
http://www.pbase.com/vmarinkovic/image/3308190

BEG2IAH

Bad link, says this when I click on it...

Bad Image Reference
The Image ID specified in the URL does not exist. It was probably deleted, but verify the URL.
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cloudy
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:26 am

The F22 can do by itself all sorts of things that other aircraft need extensive support to do. It can also patrol a larger area and attack at shorter notice due to its supercruise ability. Publicly quoted cost figures usually include amortization of R&D. Take this out and the cost comparison with the F15, etc. looks a lot different.

A lot of opposition also seems to be based on the fact that the beast was designed as a
pure air superiority fighter. While this is the case...it has many other valuable abilities...

....It can attack hostile air defense systems in a "wild weasel" role.
....With guided bombs, it is very effective as a defense penetrating bomber.
....If stealth is not needed, it can also carry a lot of payload externally.
....The F22's radar and avionics are so good that it can act as a kind of secondary AWACS or EW plane in some situations.

With 20/20 hindsight, it is easy to see now that perhaps we did not need to spend all we did on the F22 program. But now that the R&D money has been spent, it does give a much bigger bang for the buck than previous generation fighters.
 
nomadd22
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:41 am

Most stories refer to the 117 over Serbia being downed by an SA-3 with an old low freq radar because there was a known SA-3 battery in the area. But a lot of people, including me don't credit that and believe it was a modified SA-6 with an infrared seeker. The F-22 should be much better at avoiding detection by low frequency radars, but will still be somewhat vulnerable to infrared and, of course, future visable spectrum seekers on missiles.
People don't seem to realize that the US isn't just planning to deal with the problems of today, but problems 30 years from now. Once you stop F-22 production you can't just pass a bill and start it back up again. They need to buy enough to last several decades.
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BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:55 am



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 31):
with an old low freq radar

I've heard that low freq. radars can sometimes catch a glimps of the F-117. Also, it was wet and that reduces stealth a bit too. The biggest factor was that the NATO routes into and out of the country had become very predictable. The battery's commander had spotters everywhere linked by phone to find where the planes were. This allowed them to get one plane. If it were a large scale war, the F-117 would still fare quite well.
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BEG2IAH
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:02 am



Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 29):
Bad link, says this when I click on it...

Sorry, I messed up the link:

http://www.pbase.com/vmarinkovic/image/33081901
Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease.
 
bubbajin
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:11 am

My father tried to argue with me about the F-22 being a waste of money. He stated that the USAF hasn't even used the F-22 in Iraq or Afganistan so its not combat proven. Why would we send the F-22 to Iraq or Afghanistan to fly a close air support mission a F-16/15/18, B-1, B-52, A-10, and other cheaper, but just as capable combat aircraft could do? The F-22 is designed to dogfight the most capable aircraft our adversaries possess or will possess in the future. Waste of money? I think not. . .
 
dragon6172
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:07 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
It really bugs me to see the liberal media always dumping on the armed forces while applauding the government handing out bailouts to anyone who wants one.

People can "see" that bailout money at work so they are more likely to support and applaud those government actions. Some people are blind to what the armed forces provides the country, and think the DoD budget is the first place to go for cuts when you need money elsewhere. People are willing to send "care" packages with snickers bars and wet wipes to deployed troops but see no need to provide the billions of dollars needed to upgrade our military hardware. It will unfortunately take a catostrophic event on American soil before people realize that the money is needed. Of course when that happens the DoD leaders will get grilled on why they were not prepared for such a situation, to which they should reply: "We threw every snickers and wet wipe we had at them"
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JoeCanuck
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:01 pm



Quoting BubbaJin (Reply 34):

One can argue not being attacked is proof that the military is working. Having a weapon as capable as the F-22 in the arsenal might make others think a little longer about trying something nasty.

Look at the fine job the F-117 did in Iraq. It was able to get in and out without being noticed until things went boom. Now, the F-22 can do that as well as intercept.

Once enemy AA and fighters are suppressed, the non stealth planes can roll in and support the ground troops.

The price, like for most other military procurements, seems to have gotten out of control but that doesn't take away from the capabilities of the aircraft.
What the...?
 
BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:42 pm



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 36):
that doesn't take away from the capabilities of the aircraft.

It does if we don't buy them.
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Flighty
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:32 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
It does if we don't buy them.

We are already teetering on that edge. Things have gotten as expensive as they can possibly get. Any more expansive, and they are simply unbuyable, unflyable and we no longer win the wars. This is why financial management is a key part of military strength. A military that can't handle money, ultimately, can no longer remain a strong military.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 36):
Look at the fine job the F-117 did in Iraq. It was able to get in and out without being noticed until things went boom.

Now only that, it made every bad guy in the world think a little bit, and look to the skies. A stunt like that gets noticed, and ultimately can preserve the peace, at least for a while. The F-22 can preserve the peace just by doing training missions and sitting on base. It keeps heads cooler all over the world.
 
keesje
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:18 pm

A way to buy time and keep the production lines open would be to sell them to the Japanese.

Not selling them to the Japanese also sends a strong signal to this ally and speed things up in Asia, South Korea is looking. Also if we don't like it..

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...eovnme/2007-01-14_152929-japan.jpg
http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3577
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curlyheadboy
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:27 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 39):
A way to buy time and keep the production lines open would be to sell them to the Japanese.

Think the US could give a couple of squadrons as a gift, because Japan doesn't look in the shape of someone who can afford a 137 million dollar fighter, so do the other US allies.
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:54 pm



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 40):
Think the US could give a couple of squadrons as a gift, because Japan doesn't look in the shape of someone who can afford a 137 million dollar fighter, so do the other US allies

Japan has a very strong military and has pretty much the best of everything. They are one of the few countries that had the money to purchase F-15s. The biggest snag I see here is that I recall that Japan's military is supposed to be strictly a self defense force and the F-22 may be seen as an offensive weapon.

That said, there are only two countries that I would consider allowing to purchase the F-22, even in a stripped down version. I would only allow the JASDF and RAF to purchase it. Everyone else will have to settle for export versions of the F-35. The F-22 is too valuable to risk falling into the wrong hands.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
curlyheadboy
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:41 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Japan has a very strong military and has pretty much the best of everything. They are one of the few countries that had the money to purchase F-15s. The biggest snag I see here is that I recall that Japan's military is supposed to be strictly a self defense force and the F-22 may be seen as an offensive weapon.

That said, there are only two countries that I would consider allowing to purchase the F-22, even in a stripped down version. I would only allow the JASDF and RAF to purchase it. Everyone else will have to settle for export versions of the F-35. The F-22 is too valuable to risk falling into the wrong hands.

Perfectly ok to sell the F-22 to the most reliable allies, nothing wrong with that. Problem is I don't think both Japan and the UK have the money to buy it, they took a major hit with the financial crisis, the F-22 costs an awful lot of money (and don't forget the UK has to pay its EF2000s that don't come for cheap). Only remote possibility is to establish a production partnership, but that would take away the point of keeping the production line running.
Dunno mate, maybe Saudi Arabia has the money but would you sell your best technology to them? Methinks not.
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
 
HaveBlue
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:25 pm



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 42):
Dunno mate, maybe Saudi Arabia has the money but would you sell your best technology to them? Methinks not.

Me hopes not...
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BMI727
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:30 pm



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 42):
Problem is I don't think both Japan and the UK have the money to buy it

Japan might. The UK certainly doesn't have cash for that and besides, they would have to fight through a blockade of political opposition.

Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 42):
Dunno mate, maybe Saudi Arabia has the money but would you sell your best technology to them? Methinks not.

Absolutely not. They can line up for the F-35 with everyone else. The F-22 should be allowed for the US, Japan, and the UK.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
olle
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:35 pm

USA has been running a trade deficit against for example Japan during many years... They should more afford it compared to US.

The 5-7 % of GDP trade deficit US runs during the last 7-8 is the biggest long term threat against US position in the world.

Remember that UK won both big conflicts during 1900 to 1945 and in the 1940s it was the trade deficit in the 1920s and 1930s that finally killed its position.

BR
 
AGM100
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RE: CNN Slams F-22 As Waste Of Money

Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:46 pm

I would support the slow down in production for a few basic reasons.

1. More HELO lift for our troops on the ground . CH-46G , UH-60 , CH-53. ? Merlin ?

2. More CAS Aircraft ..A-10C , AC-130 ,Apache , Predator .... ?

I want the F-22 , don't get me wrong .. but we are engaged in 2 or more ground wars . Our people need total commitment to Med-evac ,re-supply , and CAS.

Not to mention , Armour vehicles heavy weapons etc ... I am not sure that there is a shortage of the things I mentioned .. but I want to make sure.
We need to plan for air superiority .. I got it . But we have people in bad situations right this moment ... right now this moment their is a soldier somewhere waiting for a UH-60 or 46 or Merlin to come over the ridge and help them . They better not get short changed .!
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