columba
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A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:26 pm

Giving all the bad news in military aviation (A400M and NH 90 delay, cost overrun VH 71 etc...) I thought it is time to post some good news for a change:

Apparently the US Army is very satisfied with the UH 72A:

“The UH-72A has accomplished what few – if any other – major programs have achieved: staying on price and schedule this far into the project…and I see no reason why we can’t continue this performance,” Weiger said. “I also believe the Lakota program’s reputation will position us – even with today’s budget constraints – to grasp future opportunities that may arise, which will be a win for the U.S. Army, EADS North America and American Eurocopter.”

http://www.uh-72a.com/news-feature-s...9/07-11-09-40-40th-anniversary.asp
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:03 pm

The National Guard desperately needed new aircraft to replace the UH-1s and OH-58s, the new UH-72s are being delivered at a quick pace.
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Flighty
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:17 pm

Great news. This is what is expected of military contractors. Honesty and integrity.

Why did EADS deliver it on price, well clearly not because they had to. The US military almost invites dramatic over-charging, so it takes a Mother Theresa not to at least charge a few million extra. No, EADS resisted it because they have other goals in the Pentagon market.
 
CTR
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:51 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Why did EADS deliver it on price

Because unlike the VH-71 or ARH , the UH72A is truly a COTS aircraft (Commercial of the Shelf).

With the exception of radios and paint the UH72A has little difference from the commercial EC145 performing EMS duties. There are no weapon systems or countermeasures on the UH72A.

The EC145 is a good helicopter. But it has zero relevance to weapon system procurement.

To fix the current DOD morass involving weapon system procurement, the US government needs to clean it's own house.

Have fun,

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
L-188
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:46 am

It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.
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ThePointblank
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:52 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.

The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US.
 
columba
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:40 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.

Two things:

First like it has been already said the UH 72 is build by Eurocopter USA second US helicopter manufacturers have been producing the same types for 30 years and are not competitive anymore with European manufacturers like Agusta-Westland or Eurocopter.

Be glad that there is competiton from abroad, the Boeing tanker deal, the CSAR and ARH have been bad examples of the recent past.

P.S. Same goes for European defence products, European goverments should order abroad if the own industry messes up (e.g. new training helicopter for the German Army, new Navy helicopter, A400M, etc....)
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
CTR
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:49 pm



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 5):
The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US

Don't confuse "Final Assembly" with "Made in the USA". USA manufactured part content in the UH-72A is far less than 50%. If it was a car, it would not qualify as Made in the USA.

That said, if the Bell 412 had won the competition, final assembly would likely been kept in Mirabel Canada.

Have fun

CTR
Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:38 pm



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 5):
The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US.

Not really, like the NG/EADS KC-45 would have been, the UH-72 is ASSEMBLED in the US, with parts built in Europe.

But, this is a refreshing relief to see that something the US military is building is on time and on budget.

There is another US Weapons program that does not get a lot of press because it too is on time and on budget. That is the Burke class DDGs for the USN, built and assembled at Bath shipyard in Maine, and in Mobil, AL.
 
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:58 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
But, this is a refreshing relief to see that something the US military is building is on time and on budget.

For the missions it's being assigned in the US the UH-72A is the perfect helicopter, National Guard RAID missions etc.. Many States were equipped with UH-1s that were not flight worthy, these new UH-72A's brings many States up to their full compliment of flyable aircraft.
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:04 pm

As per the Army, UH-72s will also be based in Europe with US Army Europe.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:41 am



Quoting CTR (Reply 3):
To fix the current DOD morass involving weapon system procurement, the US government needs to clean it's own house.

This is so typical of you. You consistently play the role of the cheerleader for the industrial fat cats, particularly in the case of Bell. And at the same time it seems you relish in the opportunity to blame the agencies/branches/government.

Do you work for Bell marketing?
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:14 pm

How many UH-72s are being bought by the US Army? Will the USAF, USCG, USMC, and USN buy any as just a utility helio?
 
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:22 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
How many UH-72s are being bought by the US Army?

Over 300 between the Active, Guard and Reserve. As of now the only other branch that has orders for the UH-72 is the Navy, but that order is just a handful for the Test pilot school at PAX river.
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:29 am

An armed version of the UH-72/EC 145 is being offered for the US Army's OH-58D replacement program, hopefully it will fair better than the ARH-70 in development.
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ThePointblank
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:41 am



Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
An armed version of the UH-72/EC 145 is being offered for the US Army's OH-58D replacement program, hopefully it will fair better than the ARH-70 in development.

As long as they manage the project CAREFULLY and keep a lid on requirement creep, they are fine.
 
AGC525
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:21 pm

My company was one of the first in the country to fly a medical configuaration. It's an awesome platform and very well recieved. Right now we have 8 in our fleet and more are on order.
American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
 
Jackonicko
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:58 pm

It's a far, far better aircraft than any of the locally designed alternatives.

Bell 407? Per-lease.
Bell 412? A geriatric Huey with botox.
Bell 427? Worse.
Bell 429? Getting there, but still not mature. It's taken Bell years to nearly catch up with the EC135/145.

MD900? Simply not as good an aircraft.

Sikorsky? Don't make a right-sized aircraft.

But for such a non-critical role, second best would have been good enough, and second best could have supported more US jobs. I think you should have gone with the MD900.
 
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N328KF
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:41 pm



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 17):
Sikorsky? Don't make a right-sized aircraft.

It should be said that Sikorsky acquired Schweizer to give them a manufacturing base for smaller helos, and the Sikorsky S-434 is the first of these. No, it's not as big as an OH-58, but it's definitely their start on offering a full model line.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Jackonicko
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:37 pm

A Schweizer 333 with the four blade main rotor and other features from the Firescout is hardly going to get Eurocopter and AgustaWestland quaking in their boots, now, is it?

The US rotorcraft industry has effectively stepped out of light-to-medium modern rotorcraft development, ceding the field to the Europeans.
 
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:41 am



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 19):
A Schweizer 333 with the four blade main rotor and other features from the Firescout is hardly going to get Eurocopter and AgustaWestland quaking in their boots, now, is it?

I said, it's a start. Sikorsky clearly has big plans for Schweizer, and that consists of UAVs and plugging the holes in their product line.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Jackonicko
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:01 am

Building a handful of 'super 333s' as part of an S-92 deal with Saudi Arabia doesn't feel like a confident or adequate start, to me.

I could see Jeff Pino's prediction that the S-92 would be Sikorsky's last new conventional helicopter design coming true.

As to Sikorsky's plans for Schweizer, I'm unconvinced, personally.

I take no pleasure in saying so, as AgustaWestland and Eurocopter badly need some proper competition.
 
Arniepie
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:04 am

Not wanting t start a new thread for it but still interesting to share I think;
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...%24247m-order-45-more-uh_72as.html

Quoting The Article:
EADS North American Defense, Arlington, Va., was awarded on Dec. 1, 2009, a $247,242,722 firm-fixed-price contract.

This contract is for the funding of program year 2005 of the Army’s Light Utility Helicopter program for 45 light utility helicopters (UH-72A), 30 medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) mission equipment packages, 30 MEDEVAC B-kits, 30 hoist B-kits, four very important personnel mission equipment packages, 11 engine inlet barrier filters, 34 environmental control units, and 45 airborne radio communication 231s.

Work is to be performed in Columbus, Miss., with an estimated completion date of June 30, 2011. One bid was solicited with one bid received.

About 5.5 million $ per aircraft, seems reasonable, no?
Also how is this new type performing, am I right in assuming that no news usually means good news ?
Is it performing as expected, how about reliability and what are the recurring issues, if any?
also could this type be sold outside the US with US specs (maybe from the same production plant) , I know plenty of air forces that could make good use of this type of light utility helicopter, eg.Belgium comes to mind and lots of Eastern European states that still need to upgrade old fleets, usually old relics from the USSR days.
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par13del
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:28 am



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 21):
I take no pleasure in saying so, as AgustaWestland and Eurocopter badly need some proper competition.

Why? You have already said that they have superior equipment to the Americans who have stagnated for the last 10 to 20 years, that would mean that competition played little or no part in their current product line.
 
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:48 pm

The UH-72 is the front runner to replace the Army's OH-58 Kiowa's in the light attack/ reconnaissance mission.
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:24 am

First UH-72s for US Army Europe:

Arrival at Ramstein:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWqCsTpMoaU

Arrival at Hohenfels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkLl40YKR-U
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sasd209
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:43 am

I am happy to see these A/C are seeming to work so well; I haven't heard of any major issues with their introduction into service. Are these A/C that are in Germany National Guard A/C or are they Active units attached to the forces in Germany? I did see that they arrived in a Mississippi ANG C-17, but I don't want to assume that they are NG aircraft as well..
 
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STT757
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:46 pm

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 26):
Are these A/C that are in Germany National Guard A/C or are they Active units attached to the forces in Germany? I did see that they arrived in a Mississippi ANG C-17, but I don't want to assume that they are NG aircraft as well..

These are for the active duty Army in Europe, several active duty units will be receiving UH-72s. The UH-72s will not deploy though, and not see combat.
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N328KF
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:38 pm

Quoting sasd209 (Reply 26):
Are these A/C that are in Germany National Guard A/C or are they Active units attached to the forces in Germany?
Quoting STT757 (Reply 27):
These are for the active duty Army in Europe, several active duty units will be receiving UH-72s. The UH-72s will not deploy though, and not see combat.

Right. They're mainly intended for shuttling REMFs around so that we free up purpose-built combat-grade helos for front-line duty.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
sasd209
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:22 pm

Ah, that clears it up, many thanks!
 
trex8
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:44 am

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 22):
Is it performing as expected, how about reliability and what are the recurring issues, if any?
also could this type be sold outside the US with US specs (maybe from the same production plant) ,

the EC145 is based on the BK117 which is the most popular civilian EMS chopper in the US so I would think the basic design is well proven.
IIRC pricing info for FMS exports has already been given to some foreign nations
 
KPDX
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:39 am

I have to say, the UH-72 is one stunning heli with the military paint!   
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Arniepie
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RE: A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A

Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:59 pm

It seems defence projects can be done the right way


http://www.globaldefence.net/defence...nology-demonstration-aircraft.html

Quoting from the article:
USA - EADS North America to build three Armed Aerial Scout 72X Technology Demonstration Aircraft
.........
As a highly capable helicopter for the Armed Aerial Scout mission, the AAS-72X combines twin-engine safety, high and hot operating performance and a large cabin for true multi-role capability. The AAS-72X is derived from the UH-72A Lakota Light Utility Helicopter, offering a low-risk evolution of the U.S. Army’s newest rotary-wing aircraft, which is widely considered one of the most successful acquisition programs in the service’s history.

Production of the AAS-72X would take place at the Columbus, Miss., helicopter center of excellence operated by EADS North America’s subsidiary American Eurocopter, where the UH-72A currently is assembled for the U.S. Army. EADS North America has delivered more than 100 UH-72As on time and within budget.

The UH-72A in-service fleet is demonstrating its mission capabilities and reliability with U.S. Army and National Guard, having logged more than 25,000 flight hours at an operational readiness rate of greater than 90 percent.
http://www.globaldefence.net/images/stories/EADS_100422_AAS-72X_42698387.jpg
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