Lumberton
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Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:32 pm

DOD Buzz amazes sometimes. I haven't seen this anywhere else--at least in the English media. Nice work.

Note the mention of the "Silent Eagle".

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/09/08/sa...-15s/comment-page-1/#comment-13921

Quote:
Saudi Arabia is close to placing an order for as many as 72 Boeing F-15 fighter jets, industry and defense sources tell us. Growing security concerns over Gulf neighbor and perennial troublemaker Iran are pushing the Saudis to upgrade their air fleet with a particular emphasis on precision strike aircraft.

The Pentagon is expected to approve the sale as it seeks to counter Iran’s recent break-out as a regional power and quell nervousness among Gulf Arab states troubled by Iran’s growing stockpile of increasingly accurate and long-range ballistic missiles. Foreign military sales are managed through the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency. DSCA did not respond to an emailed request for information.

The F-15 order would come on top of Riyadh’s purchase of 72 Eurofighter Typhoons in 2006, the first of which are just now being delivered to the Gulf kingdom. The Saudis currently operate around 71 two-seat F-15Ss, a variant of the F-15E Strike Eagle with downgraded avionics, Hughes APG-70 radar and LANTIRN targeting pod. They also operate 66 single-seat F-15Cs and 18 two-seat F-15Ds air-superiority fighters, according to figures compiled by CSIS’s Anthony Cordesman.

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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Stitch
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:53 am

So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.

Going to be a darn nice force.  yes 

I expect if it goes through, Israel is going to yell loud for the F-22 and/or F-35.  Wink
 
nomadd22
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:34 am

Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack, no Persian aircraft is going to get more than three feet beyond the border.
There are a few military planes that will eclipse everything ever built in the history books. C-130. The B-52, MIG-25 and the F-15.
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Lumberton
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:26 am



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack,

It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
connies4ever
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:17 am



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack,

It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?

The Iranians are going to attack with what, exactly ? Not many credible a/c in service, e.g., old rickety F-14s and a handful of upgraded Tigers. Unless they've been receiving new-build Sukhois and/or MiGs. Any attack I would think would be by missile.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:43 pm

And when the Saudi royal dictatorship is toppled by a Hamas-style regime the USAF can buy more F-22s to counter the threat. Nice work.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Oroka
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:10 pm

On one hand, a 72 unit order would guarantee the F-15SE going into production, I just have reservations about allowing an Arab country to have such a potent air force, especially considering they don't seem to have too many real threats to them selfs. A F-15 isn't going to do much good against a guy hiding in a bush with a AK-47, which seems to be the biggest threat to a oil rich Arab nation. 80 F-15C/Ds, 70 F-15S, 72 Typhoons, and 72 F-15SE... 294 of some of the best fighters and attack aircraft in the world. That is alot of military power for such a small nation.

But hey, when you got that much money, half those F-15SE are probably for their kids to play with.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:31 pm

Well Boeing will certainly be welcome for the business to keep the Saint Louis production line open. So that will pretty much guarantee that the WA, IL and MO congressional delegations will be pushing for the buy to be approved.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:59 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2):
There are a few military planes that will eclipse everything ever built in the history books. C-130. The B-52, MIG-25 and the F-15.

I would not put the Mig-25 on that list, but would add the KC-135.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 4):
The Iranians are going to attack with what, exactly ? Not many credible a/c in service, e.g., old rickety F-14s and a handful of upgraded Tigers. Unless they've been receiving new-build Sukhois and/or MiGs. Any attack I would think would be by missile.

In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.

They also have 1 AEW Il-76, and several P-3Fs, along with KC-707 and KC-747 tankers.

The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../world/iran/airforce-equipment.htm

For the RSAF F-15s, do we know if they will be more F-15S, F-15Cs, or a mix?
 
Lumberton
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:38 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?

Hmm...I guess subtlety gets lost sometime. I was referring to a country to the north of Saudi Arabia. No, it isn't Turkey, but close.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Devilfish
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:45 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Note the mention of the "Silent Eagle".

Makes posting this again worthwhile (excusable?)  Wink .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...6/f-15-silent-eagle-the-movie.html

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack, no Persian aircraft is going to get more than three feet beyond the border.

More likely they thought - "Better to have two world powers on your side in a crunch".

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.

Are the Su-34s and MiG-29s they were supposed to have ordered the other year mere "rumours"?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
connies4ever
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:25 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.

273 may seem like a big number but:

a) F-5s really can't be ranked as first-line a/c
b) what's the availability of the F-14s ?
c) F-4 can still do a job and likely they've either cannibalized some for spares or learned how to make their own, but it's no match against the RSAF F-15C's
d) Mig-29 is almost a point defense a/c due to very short range
e) Sukhois you note are not air superiority or counter air, their more counter ground

Bottom line question I would pose would be how many can Iran put up at once ? I'm thinking not many except on Air Force Day.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:28 pm

That would keep the "mini air shows" going at STL for a while.  bigthumbsup 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:32 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 10):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.

Are the Su-34s and MiG-29s they were supposed to have ordered the other year mere "rumours"?



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.


273 may seem like a big number but:

a) F-5s really can't be ranked as first-line a/c
b) what's the availability of the F-14s ?
c) F-4 can still do a job and likely they've either cannibalized some for spares or learned how to make their own, but it's no match against the RSAF F-15C's
d) Mig-29 is almost a point defense a/c due to very short range
e) Sukhois you note are not air superiority or counter air, their more counter ground

Here is the break down of what they had in 2008. They increased their 2005 fighter numbers by 7 fighters.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../world/iran/airforce-equipment.htm
 
keesje
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:20 am

I thinkg negotiation were going on on large numbers of SU30 's. Don't know what happened. Maybe Shenyang J-11B's ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
spectre242
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:24 am



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.

Perhaps, though I thought the F-15SE was being marketed more towards the air defence role also. This is the role where the LO mods of the SE are really effective because of the internal missile storage in the conformal tanks - which means less fuel space, and no wing tanks in the more stealthy config either, so shorter range.

Of course, the F-15SE would obviously be very capable as a strike fighter, just as all later model F-15s are, but it will lose much of it's stealthyness as a result (wing tanks, external bomb storage, etc). Would it be worth paying extra for the SE if you were primarily going to use it as a long range strike platform?

They are buying the same number of modern, world class multirole aircraft from different countries, with largely different weapons fits and different avionics systems. Maybe they are
a) trying to hedge their bets against any potential future export restrictions, or
b) working on the theory that a future enemy (Iran or whoever) will be more overwhelmed defensivly trying to combat (i.e. jam or disrupt) different US and European radar and weapon systems.

(I'm not sure how valid idea (b) is, it just crossed my mind.)

This is similar to the situation in the '80s when the Saudis bought Tornados ADVs and F-15Cs, but my understanding is that the Tornados ADVs were bought first when an F-15 export restriction was in place (is that correct?). They obviously found enough advanatges to operating two very different fleets of aircraft enough to do it all over again!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Report: Saudis May Buy 72 (More) F-15s

Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:53 pm



Quoting Spectre242 (Reply 15):
Of course, the F-15SE would obviously be very capable as a strike fighter, just as all later model F-15s are, but it will lose much of it's stealthyness as a result (wing tanks, external bomb storage, etc). Would it be worth paying extra for the SE if you were primarily going to use it as a long range strike platform?

It seems the F-15SE is an excellent duel role fighter, able to do the missions of both the F-15C and the F-15E.

Quoting Spectre242 (Reply 15):
This is similar to the situation in the '80s when the Saudis bought Tornados ADVs and F-15Cs, but my understanding is that the Tornados ADVs were bought first when an F-15 export restriction was in place (is that correct?).

Correct, Carter did not want to sell the F-15C/D to bith Israel and Saudia Arabia. Reagan changed that, after the Tornado ADVs were ordered. Reagan later went on to sell them 5 Boeing E-3A+ AWACS (with F-108-201 engines) and 8 KE-3A+ tankers (also with F-108-201 engines). The IDF got more F-15C/Ds, F-16C/D/Is, and E-2C+, as well as Boeing manufactured air refueling Booms for their KC-707s from Reagan.

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