na
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US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:01 pm

Status: with the "Kitty Hawk" decommissioned earlier this year the US Navy is down to 11 mainline carriers, 10 "Nimitz"-class plus the "Enterprise" which is scheduled to retire in about 3 years time. The first new-constructed "Gerald Ford"-class (same size as the "Nimitz") carrier is scheduled to be commissioned in 2015.

Some questions:
1. Do all Nimitz-class carry the same size of crew/flightcrew (which of cause is naturally slightly varying all the time) or are there significant differences?
2. Do all Nimitz-carriers carry the same number of aircraft when deployed or is that subject to the mission?
3. Is there a particular carrier and a particular aircraft type which is particularly liked/disliked in the Navy?
4. Is there a particular ship which is seen as THE flagship of the US Navy?
5. Why are some carriers´ homepages offline (like the Washington and the Truman) since some time?
 
JakeOrion
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 pm

1) All Nimitz class carriers are the same in terms of crew compliment. The ships compliment is 3,200 and its air wing is 2,480.

2) Most of them typically carry 64 aircraft (48 tactical and 16 support) but the ships are capable up to 90. Typically, each ship carries 8 squadrons, but some ships carry 7 or 9 squadrons of aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ited_States_Navy_Carrier_air_wings

3) I know that the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornets are relatively maintenance friendly, and are generally well liked by their crews. If anything, it would probably be the EB-6B Prowler because its starting to get very difficult to find parts.

4) Generally, the newest ship in active service is considered the "flagship" of the fleet, but Enterprise can be considered the flagship as it was the first nuke, or Nimitz as it was the first of a nuke class.

5) Ehhh???

http://gw.ffc.navy.mil/
http://www.truman.navy.mil/
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na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:42 pm

Thanks a lot, JakeOrion.
I didnt know that the standard flight wing is considerably smaller than the maximum.

As for 5), the link to the Truman website still doesnt work.
The general navy site does of cause.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:48 pm

All of the Nimitz class CVNs have flag officer facilities, and when they are the flag ship they carry an additional 150-200 sailors and Officers as the Adm. Staff.

Many if the Tico class CGs also flag officer facilities, as do all of the San Antonio class LPDs.

The "official" Flag Ship of the USN is the USS Constitution, built in 1797 and still afloat in Boston Harbor. She is the oldest commissioned warship afloat in the world. She carries 54 guns and has a displacement around 2400 tons. She was one of 6 "44" gun frigates of the United States class. Her last "deployment" was a 5 day sailing in Massachusetts Bay, including a "port call" at Marblehead, Massachusetts, on her 200th birthday, in 1997. She reached a maximum speed of 6 knots on this "deployment", called "Sail 200", in which she was the Flag Ship, under the Command of Then CNO ADM Jay L. Johnson. Her "Task Force" included the USS Ramage, DDG-61, a Burke class DDG, and USS Halyburton, FFG-40, a Perry class FFG, and the USN Blue Angles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Constitution_Sail200d.jpg

BTW, the oldest commissioned warship in the world is the RN HMS Victory, older than Old Ironsides by about 28 years. However Victory has been dry docked for many decades, and was bombed by the Luftwaffe during WWII.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:04 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
EB-6B

Supposed to be EA-6B, no idea how I screwed that up.
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2H4
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:33 pm

While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:37 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

2H4

92.66 (repeating of course) knots.

What? You asked for guesses.
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HaveBlue
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:16 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

I have heard over the years that they are among the fastest surfaces ships the Navy has, and also heard that they would "almost keep up with interstate traffic", though admittedly the latter comment was back in the Federally regulated speed days and also a bit hard to swallow.

My guess would be around 40 knots, but that's purely a guess. I have always been very curious as to what the true top speed is though.
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L-188
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:29 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
BTW, the oldest commissioned warship in the world is the RN HMS Victory, older than Old Ironsides by about 28 years. However Victory has been dry docked for many decades, and was bombed by the Luftwaffe during WWII

I was under the impression she was preserved in concrete, never to float again.
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studedave
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:46 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

Now that I'm retired I can tell you how fast they ACTUALLY are. Oops, no I can't!!! Sorry.

Let's just say that they can out-run their 'support' whenever they want...
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L-188
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:10 am



Quoting StudeDave (Reply 9):
Now that I'm retired I can tell you how fast they ACTUALLY are. Oops, no I can't!!! Sorry.

Sure you can.....once!!!
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rwessel
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:11 am



Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 7):
I have heard over the years that they are among the fastest surfaces ships the Navy has, and also heard that they would "almost keep up with interstate traffic", though admittedly the latter comment was back in the Federally regulated speed days and also a bit hard to swallow.

My guess would be around 40 knots, but that's purely a guess. I have always been very curious as to what the true top speed is though.

They *should* be amongst the fastest ships in the Navy, simply given the length of the hull.

Compared to an 58,000 ton Iowa, with 212,000shp, and a waterline length of about 860ft, a 100,000t Nimitz, with 260,000shp, and a waterline length of about 1040ft, is going to hits its wave drag limit at around a 10% faster speed, but will have rather more wetted area contributing drag, and not really all that much more power, especially given the size difference. The Iowa's managed about 33kts, and I'd estimate the Nimitz's top speed at about 35kts (and I think that's likely generous, since the Iowa's had rather finer hull forms).

Mind you that sprint speed is *not* the be-all and end-all. A Nimitz can run at its top speed for months (well, something will break sooner or later), but an Iowa will run out of gas in a few days. So a Nimitz can out run anything, just by virtue of its "unlimited" fuel supply. Not that it’s a slouch in terms of speed either.

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Arniepie
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:20 am

In regards to its speed, a good point of reference exists.

The old SS United States which had a length of 990ft and a beam of 101ft with a max displacement of +47000tons still holds the westbound transatlantic speed record for at least the last 30 years at 38.3knots or about 70Kmh.

It had 8 boilers producing 242.000Hp.
As an interesting sidenote, it was build at the same yard where a lot of the big carriers where build.

[edit post]
 
na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:35 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
BTW, the oldest commissioned warship in the world is the RN HMS Victory, older than Old Ironsides by about 28 years. However Victory has been dry docked for many decades, and was bombed by the Luftwaffe during WWII

I was under the impression she was preserved in concrete, never to float again.

No, the Victory is standing in a drydock. In wonderful condition, I´ve visited her twice. Absolutely worth a visit.

I hope that the US will preserve the Enterprise and/or the Nimitz once they are due for retirement (and all the nuclear stuff is removed of cause).

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 9):

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

Now that I'm retired I can tell you how fast they ACTUALLY are. Oops, no I can't!!! Sorry.

Let's just say that they can out-run their 'support' whenever they want...

Reported speed is 35 knots+. Thats what I read on semi-official sites. I guess in reality the CVNs could achieve something between 35 and 40. Who knows if the power output figure given (260000 hp) is correct? Maybe its beyond 300.000?

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 12):
The old SS United States which had a length of 990ft and a beam of 101ft with a max displacement of +47000tons still holds the westbound transatlantic speed record for at least the last 30 years at 38.3knots or about 70Kmh.

Interesting to know is that the SS United States had such a high speed because it was partly a military ship. The US were so impressed by the performance of the Cunard Queens, which could outrun everything afloat (those to ships were quoted by Churchill to have shortened WWII by a year alone!) that the next civilian flagship should be able to perform accordingly.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:21 am



Quoting ArniePie (Reply 12):
The old SS United States which had a length of 990ft and a beam of 101ft with a max displacement of +47000tons still holds the westbound transatlantic speed record for at least the last 30 years at 38.3knots or about 70Kmh.

It had 8 boilers producing 242.000Hp.
As an interesting sidenote, it was build at the same yard where a lot of the big carriers where build.

And as stated just above the United States was built to navy specs and used some parts that were initially set for the other United States, the aircraft carrier that was cancelled. In return for being built at Newport News and taking advantage of some of those carrier parts, there was an agreement that the ship could be used as a troop transport in time of war. It was built sleek inside with a very art deco style that minimized wood and other flamable materials. It was built to be speedily converted. The speed was both to win back the speed trophy and as well to move troops rapidly.

Sadly the ship is for sale once again and sits languishing in Philadelphia. The plans to turn it into a cruise ship proved to costly. The interior is basically stripped so whoever buys it has to start from scratch. I still say it would be a great addition to Nauticus in Norfolk as convention/hotel facility, just across from the shipyard. But the pockets will have to be very deep.

My understanding was that compliments of sailors differed slightly between the Nimitz carriers themselves. I have been on two different ones a couple of times each, the Karl S. Vinson and the Ike for Easter Sunrise Services when they used to hold them in Norfolk. But perhaps manning differed back then because the Ike was converted to being Coed and the others weren't yet.

The one time we were on the Ike it was when the troops were coming home and on the Friday evening Witney Houston did her big Welcome Back concert in the hangar at the Norfolk NAS. That Sunday morning her Mom, Cissy was one of the special guests singing at the Sunrise Service. Cissy had a broken ankle or foot, and had to be carried by marines up those steep mesh steps used as gangways onto one of the elevators in the lowered position. A couple of the family with her got their high heeled shoes caught in the same mesh steps. There were plenty of eager marines and sailors ready to help them up the stairs.

The service of over a thousand people was held in the foreward of the three hangar bays as it was too cold to hold it up on the flight deck. At the end of the service the klaxon sounded and the fireproof doors opened to bay 2 where the ship's bakery had prepared breakfast of danish and donuts. There were two aircraft on display on the second elevator for pictures. The size of the Nimitz carriers is mind boggling.
 
spectre242
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:03 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
I was under the impression she was preserved in concrete, never to float again.



Quoting NA (Reply 13):
No, the Victory is standing in a drydock. In wonderful condition, I´ve visited her twice. Absolutely worth a visit.

I don't know how operable the dry dock doors would still be, but it is a dry dock. You can observe her in Google Maps satellite view (at 50° 48′ 6.52″ N, 1° 6′ 34.5″ W). Mind you, I can't see how she would ever sail again. Wasn't she taken out of the water to help preserve her hull?

Interestingly (and maybe this is where the confusion came from), the museum ship next to Victory, the monitor HMS M33, does appear to be trapped in her dry dock by a newer bit of dock built across the entrance way to it.
 
Oroka
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:16 am

I would expect the Bush would have a smaller crew compliment, as it uses some technology meant for the Ford, making her a bit easier to crew.
 
na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:00 am



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
If anything, it would probably be the EB-6B Prowler because its starting to get very difficult to find parts.

Arent those phased out right now for F-18G Growlers? Dont know how far this transition process is. Also: what is replacing the Viking retired last year? Ospreys?

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
I would expect the Bush would have a smaller crew compliment, as it uses some technology meant for the Ford, making her a bit easier to crew.

Should be logical. Although the biggst step during the Nimitz class evolution was made from the Truman to the Reagan (which already is very similar to the Bush)
 
LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:06 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 17):
Arent those phased out right now for F-18G Growlers? Dont know how far this transition process is.

Yes the EA-6B are being phased out and being replaced by the EA-18G. Each VAQ squadron will have five aircraft. Which as an increase over the four EA-6B operated by fleet VAQ units. From what I have read the last of the USN Prowlers will be retired by 2012. How long the USMC plans on operating the Prowler is anybodies guess.

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
Also: what is replacing the Viking retired last year? Ospreys?

No Ospreys, all the Navy did was add some helicopters to the CAG's.
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na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:25 pm



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 18):
From what I have read the last of the USN Prowlers will be retired by 2012.

I just read the Nimitz is the first which is receiving the Growler. Right now.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 18):
No Ospreys

Why not? The Navy did a lot of testing with them.
So whats replacing the Vikings retired just some months ago?
Anything what could replace the aging Grumman C2-A Greyhounds?
 
LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:18 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 19):
Why not? The Navy did a lot of testing with them.

Having an ASW version of the Osprey would mean spending money on R&D, operational eval, etc, etc. Money evidently the Navy does not have to spend.

Quoting NA (Reply 19):
So whats replacing the Vikings retired just some months ago?

Nothing, just a couple more Seahawks assigned to the CAG.

Quoting NA (Reply 19):
Anything what could replace the aging Grumman C2-A Greyhounds?

Nothing as of yet. The C-2 fleet is undergoing a SLEP that is supposed to extend the life of the fleet to 2027
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studedave
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:03 am



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 20):
Nothing, just a couple more Seahawks assigned to the CAG.

Funny thing is-- those nice new MH-60S Seahawks they added have little to ZERO ASW capibility...
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ThePointblank
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:06 am



Quoting StudeDave (Reply 21):
Funny thing is-- those nice new MH-60S Seahawks they added have little to ZERO ASW capibility...

Yes, but the MH-60R Seahawk's do have ASW capability... just that the airframe is getting very cramped with all the stuff they've thrown in. A bigger helicopter is needed if systems growth is expected or desired.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:31 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
BTW, the oldest commissioned warship in the world is the RN HMS Victory, older than Old Ironsides by about 28 years. However Victory has been dry docked for many decades, and was bombed by the Luftwaffe during WWII

I was under the impression she was preserved in concrete, never to float again.

No, that is the Japanese Battleship IJN Mikasa, the flagship of the Russo-Japanese Battle of Tsushima.

Quoting NA (Reply 13):
No, the Victory is standing in a drydock. In wonderful condition, I´ve visited her twice. Absolutely worth a visit.

Correct.

Quoting NA (Reply 13):
I hope that the US will preserve the Enterprise and/or the Nimitz once they are due for retirement (and all the nuclear stuff is removed of cause).

Yeah, we blew it with the last USS Enterprise, CV6, of WWII fame. She was the most decorated USN warship of WWII, earning some 16 Battlestars. She was scrapped in 1960.
 
studedave
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 22):
Yes, but the MH-60R Seahawk's do have ASW capability... just that the airframe is getting very cramped with all the stuff they've thrown in.

I am well aware of that. But those Romeos (ASW-wise) are only replacing the SH-60F. Tthe numbers (on the Carrier) didn't change much. You much remember- the squadrons that get these birds are covering the entire battle group now- not just the Carrier. That means detachments to the smallboys from the Carrier instead of how it's been done in the past with HSL squadrons-- for the most part.

I think the biggest problem with the 'R' is that it is replacing both the 'F' and the 'B'. It got equipment from both Worlds of USN helo ASW so to speak- and that meant alot of systems had to be installed~ or able to be in short order~ dipping sonar, MAD, and sonobuoy launchers to name a few...

Not to mention all the new, latest and greatest toys they 'just had to have'!!!
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LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:28 pm



Quoting StudeDave (Reply 21):
Funny thing is-- those nice new MH-60S Seahawks they added have little to ZERO ASW capibility...

Well I guess you could argue that it frees up SH-60/MH60R for ASW duties. Kind of weak I know. What really would have been nice is a S-3C version of the Viking. Composite wings, vertical and horizontal to save on weight, new engines and new avionics. Alas that did not happen and will probably never happen.
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Bramble
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:56 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
While we're talking about Nimitz-class carriers, does anyone have any guesses as to their top speed?

I remember hearing that the Enterprise outran its escorts in its initial trials. I assume the Nimitz top speed is similarly fast and problably secret.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
All of the Nimitz class CVNs have flag officer facilities

He was asking if any one was considered the unofficial 'flagship' among the carriers. Obviously Nimitz is the lead ship of the class but perhaps Enterprise is seen as the 'flagship' as its the first Nuke carrier,the oldest carrier and it the Enterprise!

Quoting NA (Reply 2):
I didnt know that the standard flight wing is considerably smaller than the maximum

Assume this increases in if needed for planned high intensity ops (ie. Iraq 1991, Afghanistan 2001, Iraq 2003-2004)

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
Arent those phased out right now for F-18G Growlers?

Aren't they coming into service about now?
 
Oroka
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:27 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Yeah, we blew it with the last USS Enterprise, CV6, of WWII fame. She was the most decorated USN warship of WWII, earning some 16 Battlestars. She was scrapped in 1960.

And the consolation prize was having the first CVN named 'Enterprise'. Securing a nuclear vessel for use as a museum would be prohibitively expensive. Then, moving it un-powered would be difficult at best. It would just be too much ship for a volunteer group to handle. Then, after Enterprise becomes a museum, there will be a drive to have the Nimitz used as a museum... how many carrier museums are needed? I would rather see the name live on with a new ship than the big E be moored, rusting away, only 10% of her open to the public because that is all the preservation society could afford to maintain.
 
na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:27 pm

The US have a lot of warships as museums. All Iowa-class battleships from WWII are still there.
But if there is just ONE carrier to preserve, it should be the Big E or the Nimitz. They should replace the Intrepid in NY with one of those two. Enterprise will pay off sometime between 2012 and 2016, and probably be put in reserve for some years, so it´ll be 2020 before scrapping of it may become an option.
Whats with the Kitty Hawk class carriers? Are some of them already being dismantled like some of the Forrestals?
 
LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 28):
Whats with the Kitty Hawk class carriers? Are some of them already being dismantled like some of the Forrestals?

There's a group in North Carolina trying to get the Kitty Hawk as a museum in Willmington, NC. She would be berthed next to the USS North Carolina. The USS America was used as a target vessel to aid in the design of future aircraft carriers. CV-66 currently resides 16860ft in the Atlantic, 5,139 meters for you Europeans.  Wink

Finally the USS Constellation is supposed to head for the scrap yard in the near future.
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studedave
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:29 pm



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 25):
Well I guess you could argue that it frees up SH-60/MH60R for ASW duties.

Frees them up? That's what they're out there for!!!

Quoting Bramble (Reply 26):
I remember hearing that the Enterprise outran its escorts in its initial trials. I assume the Nimitz top speed is similarly fast and problably secret.

It did, and it is-- sorry.

Quoting Bramble (Reply 26):
Quoting NA (Reply 2):
I didnt know that the standard flight wing is considerably smaller than the maximum
Assume this increases in if needed for planned high intensity ops (ie. Iraq 1991, Afghanistan 2001, Iraq 2003-2004)

Correct. In 1991 a bunch of my AirWing (CVW-13) went to another to join in the fight. That AirWing (not sure which) left a squadron or two behind- I'm thinking it was their S-3s...?

Quoting Bramble (Reply 26):
Quoting NA (Reply 17):
Arent those phased out right now for F-18G Growlers?
Aren't they coming into service about now?

I was at NAS Whidbey Island last week- I saw lots of those things on the training squadron's (VAQ-129) flightline. I also saw some in the air. I can't say that operational squadrons have them yet, because I was too busy noticing all the cahnges around the base since my last visit many years ago...
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nomadd22
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:11 pm

Quoting Bramble (Reply 26):
I remember hearing that the Enterprise outran its escorts in its initial trials. I assume the Nimitz top speed is similarly fast and problably secret.

My ship was on turbines going 30 knots alongside Enterprise once. She passed us like we were going backwards.
I wouldn't take that official speed too seriously.

[Edited 2009-09-15 12:11:40]
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kc135topboom
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:28 pm



Quoting Oroka (Reply 27):
Securing a nuclear vessel for use as a museum would be prohibitively expensive. Then, moving it un-powered would be difficult at best. It would just be too much ship for a volunteer group to handle. Then, after Enterprise becomes a museum, there will be a drive to have the Nimitz used as a museum... how many carrier museums are needed? I would rather see the name live on with a new ship than the big E be moored, rusting away, only 10% of her open to the public because that is all the preservation society could afford to maintain.

No, making a nuke ship into a museum should not be difficult. The USS Nautiulus, the first SSN is a museum ship in London, CT.

Most US musuem warships are almost fully open. I have been all over the USS Massachusetts, BB59, and all the other ships at Battleship Cove, the USS Texas, BB35 is about 75% open, the USS Lexington, CV16 is also mostly open.

Quoting NA (Reply 28):
The US have a lot of warships as museums. All Iowa-class battleships from WWII are still there.

Only USS New Jersey, BB62 and USS Missouri BB63 are fully museum ships. USS Wisconsin, BB64 is only open on the main deck as she, and her sister, USS Iowa, BB61 are still in class B reserve, I believe. The Iowa is in the reserve fleet in CA, not open to the public.

Quoting NA (Reply 28):
They should replace the Intrepid in NY with one of those two.

Noooo, the Interpid is a very historic ship.

There are two CVs on display, the USS Lexington in TX and the USS Kitty Hawk in CA. The USS John F Kennedy is on museum hold as the gropup at Battleship Cove in Fall River Massachusetts wants her. She will be displayed along side of the Battleship USS Massachusetts, and the Destroyer USS Joseph P Kennedy, DD850. There is also talk of moving the USS Salem, CA145 from Quincy, MA to Battleship Cove which will give the a BB, CV, CA, DD, FFG (Hindensee, a former East German warship) and two PT Boats.
 
na
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:30 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 31):
My ship was on turbines going 30 knots alongside Enterprise once. She passed us like we were going backwards.
I wouldn't take that official speed too seriously.

That sounds like a 10 knot difference or even more. And lets not forget the nuclear powerplants of the Nimitz are more effective than the Enterprise´s. What I said before, I think the CVNs topspeed should be close to 40.

I just noticed that the displacement of a single Nimitz carrier is more than all (15) big units of the German Navy together (well, we havent got anything bigger than frigates). Truly impressive, and potentially frightening.
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:37 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 33):
I just noticed that the displacement of a single Nimitz carrier is more than all (15) big units of the German Navy together (well, we havent got anything bigger than frigates). Truly impressive, and potentially frightening.

Impressive indeed; arguably a USN carrier (w/ air-group) is the most powerful non-nuclear weapon in history.
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Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:24 pm

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 14):
I still say it would be a great addition to Nauticus in Norfolk as convention/hotel facility, just across from the shipyard.

And where would they berth such a ship? With the cruise terminal right there, a ship of that size would not fit.



FYI, that's the Carnival Victory in the foreground. I cruised on her out of Norfolk back in October.

[Edited 2009-09-15 13:25:04]
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Stratofortress
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:13 pm

Slightly off topic, but this poster is too awesome not to share...

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 66kb
Forever New Frontiers
 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:43 pm



Quoting StudeDave (Reply 30):
Frees them up? That's what they're out there for!!!

Keeps them from doing plane gaurd duties.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
Only USS New Jersey, BB62 and USS Missouri BB63 are fully museum ships. USS Wisconsin, BB64 is only open on the main deck as she, and her sister, USS Iowa, BB61 are still in class B reserve, I believe. The Iowa is in the reserve fleet in CA, not open to the public.

I've done the Missouri tour before. A guided tour that allows you to see more of the ship costs extra. When I went I just did the general admissions tour. The vacation was costing me enough as it was. Even then you still get to see a lot of the ship. The armored conning tower is the most impressive part by far. The hatches are around 17 inces thick and wiegh around a ton!
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Oroka
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:51 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
No, making a nuke ship into a museum should not be difficult. The USS Nautiulus, the first SSN is a museum ship in London, CT.

I cant see the USN leaving the reactors intact and opening the ship to the public. I mean, there is just too many places to get lost on a CVN, too many dangerous spots to get hurt. But hey, I am one person, maybe a group of former sailors and volunteers could pull it off.


I just feel that if there is a Enterprise intact somewhere, they will never name another carrier the same thing. So many good traditional carrier names have lost out to dead presidents, atleast one should be carried on, and CV-6 deserves better than a rusting hulk destined to never sail again with the name Enterprise on it.
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:23 pm



Quoting Oroka (Reply 38):
I cant see the USN leaving the reactors intact and opening the ship to the public. I mean, there is just too many places to get lost on a CVN, too many dangerous spots to get hurt. But hey, I am one person, maybe a group of former sailors and volunteers could pull it off.


I just feel that if there is a Enterprise intact somewhere, they will never name another carrier the same thing. So many good traditional carrier names have lost out to dead presidents, atleast one should be carried on, and CV-6 deserves better than a rusting hulk destined to never sail again with the name Enterprise on it.

Reactors are not left intact, they will be removed and taken to a disposal site, and then buried.
 
LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:51 pm



Quoting Oroka (Reply 38):
CV-6 deserves better than a rusting hulk destined to never sail again with the name Enterprise on it.

She's not, CV-6 was cut up for scrap. IMO the two USN ships that should have been preserved, USS Enterprise and USS Washington, ended up on the breakers.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:25 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
USS Iowa, BB61 are still in class B reserve, I believe. The Iowa is in the reserve fleet in CA, not open to the public.

There was a move to make her a museum ship in San Fransico but then the gay community got all up in arms about don't ask don't tell and the gay accusations that where levied against that sailor that for a while the Navy was claiming caused the Turret explosion on her.

So the plan got axed AFAIK.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
No, making a nuke ship into a museum should not be difficult. The USS Nautiulus, the first SSN is a museum ship in London, CT.

The Savannah the first civilian nuke powered freighter was a museum ship in Charleston SC when I went there. On display with the Yorktown BTW.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
She's not, CV-6 was cut up for scrap. IMO the two USN ships that should have been preserved, USS Enterprise and USS Washington, ended up on the breakers.

Naw, I would have prefered to see the Saratoga saved with the Enterprise, First of the big Navy carriers.
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Woodreau
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:44 am

I did a middie cruise on a support ship that was escorting the Vinson, a long time ago, when the support ships were also nuclear. The captain was bound and determined not to let the carrier run away and we (Arkansas) were already up to 40 kts with the Vinson still running away from us and we had already left the Antietam - the other support ship - in the dust.

Antietam won the inital sprint - but the Vinson and Arkansas overtook and passed her pretty quickly.

[Edited 2009-09-15 22:47:54]
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studedave
Posts: 463
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:23 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
There are two CVs on display, the USS Lexington in TX and the USS Kitty Hawk in CA.

Uhhhh, what? CV-63 is livin' the retired life in Bremerton, WA. Do you maybe mean xUSS Midway (CV-41) in San Diego??? http://www.midway.org/ I retired on her flightdeck~ 8 August, 2008.
And let's not forget xUSS Hornet (CV-12) up there in the Bay Area. http://www.uss-hornet.org/

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 37):
Keeps them from doing plane gaurd duties.

That's ALSO what they are out there for.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 41):
There was a move to make her a museum ship in San Fransico
So the plan got axed AFAIK.

Didn't Stockton, CA win the bid to get her after that? That was the last I heard, but it's been a few years, and maybe that changed...
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
JohnJ
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 pm

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the current US aircraft carrier mothball fleet as it's getting quite large. I was in Bremerton a couple of years ago and saw the Constellation, Independence and Ranger. I guess the Kitty Hawk is there now, so that makes four large carriers in berth there. The Saratoga and Forrestal are in Newport, RI. With the Kennedy, that makes 7 large-deck carriers that are intact and decommissioned. The last carrier scrapped, I believe, was the Coral Sea and I've read that the scrapping was a disaster and that there'd probably never be another carrier scrapped. Perhaps some will go the way of the Oriskany and become divable artificial reefs.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
She's not, CV-6 was cut up for scrap. IMO the two USN ships that should have been preserved, USS Enterprise and USS Washington, ended up on the breakers.

Indeed a shame about CV-6, a truly remarkable ship. She should have become a museum but preservationist thinking in the 1950s-1960s isn't what it is today. Back then she was just a hunk of scrap metal that had served its purpose.

About 99.99% of the CV-6 Enterprise ended up in the scrap heap, but one small sliver remains. I had a tough time finding this, even after ending up in the town hosting it. For those of you who love the Enterprise and are planning a visit to the NYC area, this is worth a quick trip:

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/ent_1.jpg

 
LMP737
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:40 pm



Quoting L-188 (Reply 41):
Naw, I would have prefered to see the Saratoga saved with the Enterprise, First of the big Navy carriers.

I was thinking the USS Washington since it engaged and sunk a Japanese battleship preety much on it's own.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:47 pm

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:50 pm



Quoting Woodreau (Reply 42):
I did a middie cruise on a support ship that was escorting the Vinson, a long time ago, when the support ships were also nuclear. The captain was bound and determined not to let the carrier run away and we (Arkansas) were already up to 40 kts with the Vinson still running away from us and we had already left the Antietam - the other support ship - in the dust.

While I don't doubt that a Nimitz would have outrun a Virginia*, I think you need to provide some backup for a claim of 40kts for a Virginia.

As a point of comparison, a Brooklyn, of similar size (in both weight and dimensions) as a Virginia, and with considerably more installed power (100,000hp vs. 60,000hp), managed about 32.5kts.


*And just to avoid confusion, we're talking about the CGNs from the 70s and 80s, and not the SSN class launched a few years ago.
 
Oroka
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:37 am

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:41 pm



Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 39):
Reactors are not left intact, they will be removed and taken to a disposal site, and then buried.

So, pulling out 8 reactors and any sensitive equipment would be quite expensive, especially if they have to preserve the structure to be restored.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
She's not, CV-6 was cut up for scrap.

I ment the rusting hulk of the CVN-65 when she is put out to pasture as the only tribute to the CV-6.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 44):
About 99.99% of the CV-6 Enterprise ended up in the scrap heap, but one small sliver remains.

IIRC one of her anchors was saved, and the ships bell too.
 
rwessel
Posts: 2448
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RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:58 am



Quoting Oroka (Reply 47):
So, pulling out 8 reactors and any sensitive equipment would be quite expensive, especially if they have to preserve the structure to be restored.

The reactors have to be pulled (basically intact) and disposed of properly, no matter what the disposition of the hull. Your job might be a bit easier if you’re just scrapping the hull, and you don't have to worry much about ancillary damage, but you still have to carefully cut your way in to remove the reactors.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 47):
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 44):
About 99.99% of the CV-6 Enterprise ended up in the scrap heap, but one small sliver remains.

IIRC one of her anchors was saved, and the ships bell too.

Several portholes on CVN-65 (the ones under the forward edge of the flight deck, IIRC), are from CV-6.
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: US Aircraft Carrier Questions

Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:11 am



Quoting Oroka (Reply 47):
So, pulling out 8 reactors and any sensitive equipment would be quite expensive, especially if they have to preserve the structure to be restored.

Correct, and this is also the reason why the Navy is trying to retire her early. She eats up a lot of fuel with those eight reactors compared to the newer ones in the Nimitz (which has only 2). I have no idea where the reactors are positioned in the ship, but it will require cutting a hole in the side of the hull in the locations nearest where they are located (which being a military ship is probably as far from the hull as possible), then cutting away any bulkheads and piping that are in the way, and finally removing the reactors. If I had to guess the entire process may take 5+years just to remove the reactor system and any other contaminated components.

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