Devilfish
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Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:01 pm



In my view, the best prospect yet for the F-15SE Silent Eagle has just emerged.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...requirements-come-to-the-fore.html

Quote:
"He points out that South Korea will be better served by going for an off-the-shelf solution such as the Boeing F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter Typhoon and the latest version of the F-15, the Silent Eagle. 'These can provide much of the capability that South Korea requires. Think about it. It will take the Koreans more than 10 years to indigenously develop an aircraft that is already in existence. It won't be unrealistic to think that t he aircraft will be dated by the time it comes out. Without a doubt, an off-the-shelf purchase will meet the operational requirements at a much lower cost.'

[.....]

The F-35 is being pushed by Washington as the main fighter to be exported by the country to replace existing third- and fourth-generation aircraft. South Korea would follow the likes of Singapore, which also has F-16s and F-15s and will eventually replace them with the JSF.

But if there are any delays in the F-35, Boeing stands ready to offer its F-15SE as an alternative. Indeed, the Silent Eagle was proposed for customers such as South Korea, which would like to have a transition to aircraft that are more capable than their existing fourth-generation fighters, but are not sure about the F-35 or its availability.

Industry sources indicate that Seoul could divide the third phase of the contract, going for another 20 F-15s first and then ordering the F-35 when it is ready.

'The F-15SE is very well positioned to win the contract. The issue of fifth generation is not just in South Korea, it is everywhere. Stealth is very sexy, fifth generation is very sexy. But we offer a twin-engined AESA-capable medium multi-role combat aircraft,' says Song.


An AESA-equipped Super Viper such as that proposed for India could be a dark-horse F-4 or F-16 replacement, but chances are the RoKAF would wait for the F-35.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:35 pm

The F-35 isn't that far down the pike and I suspect the South Koreans might be willing to wait for it rather than spend the money for Silent Eagle in the meantime. Typhoon would be a good contender if South Korea is looking for a good swing role fighter, but then again it depends on what the F-35 has to offer that the Typhoon doesn't.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:26 am



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 1):
The F-35 isn't that far down the pike and I suspect the South Koreans might be willing to wait for it rather than spend the money for Silent Eagle in the meantime.

With LockMart now offering a 2014 F-35 delivery date, this third phase of the KF-X competition promises to be a very hotly contested one.....


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...y-date-for-south-koreas-first.html

Quote:
"Lockheed Martin remains confident that South Korea will select its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter for the third phase of its F-X competition, with the company saying that Seoul could even get access to the aircraft from 2014 if required.

'The F-35 is the best value fighter for South Korea. The country has received a classified briefing, and studies are under way to see if the aircraft can fit the various capabilities required by the air force. This will continue into 2010,' says Steve O'Brien, Lockheed's vice-president of F-35 business development."


.....if LM could stabilize its price and stick with that timeline.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:11 pm

'"Boeing looks forward to Korea's anticipated competition. We are developing an advanced F-15, which we hope will fulfil Korea's defence capabilities and needs for many years to come," says Greg Laxton, vice-president Korea business development at Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.

"We are committed to building on the success of the F-15K next fighter I and II programmes, by working with our Korean industry partners to continue to strengthen Korea's aerospace industry."

Lockheed points out that only the F-35 and its F-22 Raptor are truly fifth-generation stealth fighters, while the F-15SE has only some "stealth elements", a fact that Boeing accepts.'

The thing that might swing the choice toward Boeing could be price. Could they possibly build the F-15 Silent Eagle for less than the F-35 is projected to cost?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
cmb56
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:26 pm

I read a short very recent article in an aviation magazine, and then promptly lost track of which one, that descibed the F-15 stealth version as being equal to the F-35 in radar cross section (frontal). This was dependant on the level of stealth applied and mentioned the canted stabilizers. In addition this article also mentioned export controls of stealth technology and that Boeing was talking to the US governement about how much could be exported. Does anyone recall the publication this article was in. Is there any interest in the F-15(stealth) vs the F-35 for cost and availability. If you can get 90% of an F-36 for 60% the cost in 2 years would that not be attractive?
 
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par13del
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:36 am

How about the US Air Force being the next customer for the silent eagle?
Remind us how the F-22 and F-35 were going to work together, since the F-22 got canned either the requirements are going to change the make the limited number work or there will be a shortfall of "heavy fighters"
The current F-15C's have and require structural modifications and they are also getting old, does anyone see the US government starting an F-22 replacement or an all new fighter design and production now?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:01 pm

No, the USAF will not start a F-22 replacement program right now. But they could easily argue the F-15SE could supplement the F-22 force of 185 airplanes by buying some 200 F-15SEs. They could eaisly get more if they begin replacing the oldest F-15E MudHens.

Of course Congress could say if you want F-15SEs you have to reduce your F-35A buy by XXX number of airplanes. I think this will be a good trade off as I see the F-35A as more of a F-16C/D replacement than an F-15C/D replacement in capabilities.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Of course Congress could say if you want F-15SEs you have to reduce your F-35A buy by XXX number of airplanes. I think this will be a good trade off as I see the F-35A as more of a F-16C/D replacement than an F-15C/D replacement in capabilities.

Given the number of F-35As the Air Force wants, trading some of them for F-15SEs probably wouldn't turn into a big issue and Boeing would have military production beyond the Super Hornet, assuming more Super Hornets aren't ordered in the next year or so.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:37 pm



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 7):
Given the number of F-35As the Air Force wants, trading some of them for F-15SEs probably wouldn't turn into a big issue and Boeing would have military production beyond the Super Hornet, assuming more Super Hornets aren't ordered in the next year or so.

I think the USN still wants more Super Bugs, the RAAF could also increase their order, too (But I doubt that right now since they ordered 14 F-35As).

I would hope the USAF takes a close look at the F-15SE, but probibly will not unless some one else orders it (South Korea possibly).
 
keesje
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:58 pm

I have the feeling the US government is telling the South Koreans, Japanese, Israelies, Australians and other air forces the F15 is good enough for them.

Not everybody is convinced the F15 will take care of the new Flanker versions flooding Asia. (US for self protection neither, hence the F22).

The world has changed during the last 20 yrs, in terms of strenght, ambitions, capabilities and finance. I wonder how this will end. If the US keeps refusing to provide F22 to its allies, they'll look for alternatives. I think the US will bend for the billions.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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STT757
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:42 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
I think the USN still wants more Super Bugs, the RAAF could also increase their order, too (But I doubt that right now since they ordered 14 F-35As)

The Air National Guard wants to acquire F-18E/Fs to replace F-16s and F-15, as I understand it the F-35 is not going to every ANG Unit. And the ANG units that do receive the F-35 will have to wait.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
If the US keeps refusing to provide F22 to its allies, they'll look for alternatives. I think the US will bend for the billions.

The F-22 will not be sold abroad.
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keesje
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:41 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
The F-22 will not be sold abroad.

That could have longer term strategic implications. The Chinese are putting their Billions in stealth too, the J-XX. Makes everyone nervous, e.g. India (who do a lot with Sukhoi). The Asian countries know what they want & have the resources. Times are changing. Keeping out = loosing influence. E.g. maybe Dassault is more constructive.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:44 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I have the feeling the US government is telling the South Koreans, Japanese, Israelies, Australians and other air forces the F15 is good enough for them.

Not everybody is convinced the F15 will take care of the new Flanker versions flooding Asia. (US for self protection neither, hence the F22).

The F-15, in the hands of a good pilot will not have a problem with the Flanker.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The world has changed during the last 20 yrs, in terms of strenght, ambitions, capabilities and finance. I wonder how this will end. If the US keeps refusing to provide F22 to its allies, they'll look for alternatives. I think the US will bend for the billions.

The F=15Se looks to be an airplane with great possibilities. Some countries asked about the F-22, but how many could afford it if they were allowed to buy it?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
The Air National Guard wants to acquire F-18E/Fs to replace F-16s and F-15, as I understand it the F-35 is not going to every ANG Unit. And the ANG units that do receive the F-35 will have to wait.

Those units will not get F/A-18E/Fs. the USAF simply will not buy it. The units that do not get new F-35s will get the airplanes from active duty units that get the F-35A.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
The F-22 will not be sold abroad.

That could have longer term strategic implications. The Chinese are putting their Billions in stealth too, the J-XX. Makes everyone nervous, e.g. India (who do a lot with Sukhoi). The Asian countries know what they want & have the resources. Times are changing. Keeping out = loosing influence. E.g. maybe Dassault is more constructive.

Keep thinking that. I see many more possible international sales of Typhoons than I do of Rafels. Most countries do not need a carrier capable airplane, and the extra weight that comes with it.
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:09 am



Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
The F-22 will not be sold abroad.

After 183 they wont be sold in the US either

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Keep thinking that. I see many more possible international sales of Typhoons than I do of Rafels. Most countries do not need a carrier capable airplane, and the extra weight that comes with it.

The F-35 is not just a carrier aircraft it has 3 versions only one of which being strickly built for aircraft carriers.
 
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cpd
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:02 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I have the feeling the US government is telling the South Koreans, Japanese, Israelies, Australians and other air forces the F15 is good enough for them.

Which is why we steered clear of the F15, in any of its forms.

I do have a feeling that Dassault can provide the kind of plane these nations want - if demand exists for it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
The F=15Se looks to be an airplane with great possibilities. Some countries asked about the F-22, but how many could afford it if they were allowed to buy it?

Australia could. After all, we are throwing huge money at the F35. However, the powers that be keep saying that the F22 isn't a very good plane. It's hard to know if they really mean that, or if political influences are making them say nice things about the F18 Superhornet or F35 and bad things about the F22.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:33 pm



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 13):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Keep thinking that. I see many more possible international sales of Typhoons than I do of Rafels. Most countries do not need a carrier capable airplane, and the extra weight that comes with it.

The F-35 is not just a carrier aircraft it has 3 versions only one of which being strickly built for aircraft carriers.

I know, the F-35A/B/C, but it was not the F-35 we were talking about in that reply.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 14):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I have the feeling the US government is telling the South Koreans, Japanese, Israelies, Australians and other air forces the F15 is good enough for them.

Which is why we steered clear of the F15, in any of its forms.

Neither the F/A-18 or the F-35 are good interdiction mission F-111 replacements. The F-15E, or export versions can, almost do the F-111 mission.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:25 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I have the feeling the US government is telling the South Koreans, Japanese, Israelies, Australians and other air forces the F15 is good enough for them.

The F-35 has supplanted the Eagle in that favored position.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Not everybody is convinced the F15 will take care of the new Flanker versions flooding Asia. (US for self protection neither, hence the F22).

Two countries recently bet with their wallets that it could - and that was not even this new SE version. As for flooding, only China and India have substantial numbers of those, mainly a foil against each other (in India's case at least). Even Russia is just building up its inventory only now. The F-22 in the U.S. is for deterrence and dominance.

I think the other Asian nations are more concerned with what's coming in the horizon.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...eal-on-pak-fa-fighter-variant.html

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2590/19bh1.jpg

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600141/posts

Quoting Cpd (Reply 14):
Which is why we steered clear of the F15, in any of its forms.

A pity. Hindsight would prove if this has been sound.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 14):

Australia could. After all, we are throwing huge money at the F35.

With all the loud noises being made about the F-35's price, this bears watching.

[Edited 2009-12-13 07:38:08]
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cpd
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
Neither the F/A-18 or the F-35 are good interdiction mission F-111 replacements.

Even Lockheed Martin's representative says that the F35 is a great plane to replace the F111.

Goes to show you the sort of smoke and mirrors the politicians and the companies are playing back then.

We both know that the F111 was a very good plane, very fast, very long range and capable of carrying a heavy payload. Surely there must be demand for a new one that does a similar job?

The F15 isn't really the same thing.  Sad
 
PlayLoud
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:58 am



Quoting Cpd (Reply 17):
Even Lockheed Martin's representative says that the F35 is a great plane to replace the F111.

Aren't they rather biased?
 
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par13del
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 17):
The F15 isn't really the same thing.

The F-111 is a unique a/c, for a replacement in the US military inventory you either go up to something like the B1 or you go down to something like the F-15E - two seater - I believe its the reason it was produced - I stand to be corrected -. At the time of the F-111 retirement the a/c in inventory best able to accomodate the missions whether bombing or weasel were the F-14, F-15 and the A6 Intruder, they offered the best options of range and speed, none are the ideal replacement, neither is the F-35.
I never understood why the Mud Hen was not looked at by the Air Force as an ECM a/c, it sure must hurt the Air Force to have Marines providing their ECM support in Navy a/c - A6 - even with the new Growlers, bummer  Smile
 
PlayLoud
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:39 am



Quoting Par13del (Reply 19):
I never understood why the Mud Hen was not looked at by the Air Force as an ECM a/c, it sure must hurt the Air Force to have Marines providing their ECM support in Navy a/c - A6 - even with the new Growlers, bummer Smile

I agree completely. If you built an EF-15 (specialized modern build), you would have so many hardpoints for Jammer pods (the CFTs alone provide a lot), and still have a great fuel load. The huge AESA radar would also be great for jamming (isn't it it a lot bigger than the Growler's radar?)

It just seems like a no-brainer for me. The Marines want to make a jammer variant of the F-35, though unless they plan to make a 2-seat version, I don't see how that will work.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:36 pm



Quoting Par13del (Reply 19):
I never understood why the Mud Hen was not looked at by the Air Force as an ECM a/c, it sure must hurt the Air Force to have Marines providing their ECM support in Navy a/c - A6 - even with the new Growlers, bummer



Quoting Playloud (Reply 20):
I agree completely. If you built an EF-15 (specialized modern build), you would have so many hardpoints for Jammer pods (the CFTs alone provide a lot), and still have a great fuel load. The huge AESA radar would also be great for jamming (isn't it it a lot bigger than the Growler's radar?)

Because the USAF was not allowed to look at other platforms afther Clinton ordered the USAF to retire all F/FB/EF-111s in the mid 1990s. During the Bush years the USAF did look at apossible EB-52H as a big, wide area jammer, but that lost funding and support when the USAF decided to park some 30 B-52Hs.
 
Venus6971
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:45 pm

I wonder if USAF will be supplying aircrews for the Growlers like they already do for the EA-6B Prowlers?
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:46 pm

In the early years of the F-15E's development and promotion, the FAST packs were reported to be able to carry all kinds of electronic gear and weren't thought of strictly as fuel tanks. It follows that had there been the will to go forward, the F-15E might have been further developed into a very effective EF15E variant and there was also talk of a Wild Weasel version of the F-15E but this, of course, didn't happen, presumably because of the projected cost. Hence we got the Wild Weasel version of the F-16.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
PlayLoud
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:39 am

I would love to see new build "Silent Eagle" EW versions of the F-15, though I can't see it actually happening.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:38 am

Update:

Aviation Week reports that RCS testing for the Silent Eagle was conducted last year though it was not made public, nor was Boeing forthcoming with the figures.....

http://www.airliners.net/latest_indu...oking%20to%20South%20Korea%20as...

However, they're looking at a July first flight this year. Boeing still considers South Korea the prime potential customer as Israel seems disinterested.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:02 pm

Update:

Boeing applies for license to brief South Korea on the Silent Eagle.....

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/f-15-silent-eagle-3.jpg
http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/u...ds/2009/03/f-15-silent-eagle-3.jpg

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-export-f-15se-to-south-korea.html

Quote:
"Boeing has applied for an export licence to brief South Korea on sensitive details of a stealthier version of the F-15E that is within a few months of its first flight.

The US government approved an export policy in the second quarter for the F-15SE Silent Eagle after Boeing submitted details of its radar cross-section about six months earlier, says Brad Jones, Boeing programme director for F-15 development programmes.

The export policy allows Boeing to request an export licence for specific customers, with South Korea as the first in queue, Jones says."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:00 pm

Export license granted and first flight test with the CWB done.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ts-with-export-license-flight.html

Quote:
"Boeing is offering a range of upgrades to make the F-15 more survivable in aerial combat. The package includes techniques and treatments to reduce the frontal aspect radar cross section (RCS) in X-band.

Boeing's goal at programme launch in March 2009 was to reduce the RCS signature to a level equivalent with the frontal-aspect stealth of the 'international release version' of the F-35.

However, Boeing was unable to confirm last month whether the export policy approved two months ago allows the F-15SE to achieve that standard.

Depending on the customer's desires, the F-15SE also may include other upgrades, including a panorama cockpit display, a BAE Systems digital electronic warfare system (DEWS) and tail fins canted outward by 15º.

Another key feature for reducing the F-15 RCS signature is the addition of a conformal weapons bay (CWB)"
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: Silent Eagle For KF-X?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:25 pm

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

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