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alberchico
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Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:20 pm

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...e_removed_from_obama_speech_venue#


This particular base would have a premiere fighter like the F-22 to be displayed behind the president as he talked, so why was an F-15 put there instead. Does this mean that Obama will always avoid photo ops with the F-22 ?
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474218
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:27 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
This particular base would have a premiere fighter like the F-22 to be displayed behind the president as he talked, so why was an F-15 put there instead. Does this mean that Obama will always avoid photo ops with the F-22 ?

Because Obama has always been against production of the F-22. The F-22 was to be used as the back drop but Obama had replaced with the F-15. Don't you just love that "hope and change".
 
AFHokie
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:38 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 1):
Because Obama has always been against production of the F-22. The F-22 was to be used as the back drop but Obama had replaced with the F-15. Don't you just love that "hope and change".

Hmm...you actually have any concrete facts to back up that statement? Or is this your opinion? I'm sure the President took time to say, "hey, I don't like the F-22, replace it with an F-15"
 
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alberchico
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:45 pm



Quoting AFHokie (Reply 2):
I'm sure the President took time to say, "hey, I don't like the F-22, replace it with an F-15"

No, but his staff menbers who are looking out for his image might have done it
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evomutant
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:09 pm

Christ alive, people need to grow some thicker skin.

"A slight to the people who operate it?" Give me a break.

He has been against the F-22. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that position, he'd look a bit of a tit if he then stood in front of a sparkling and spotlighted F-22.
 
474218
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:25 pm

Google is your friend, I found hundreds of articles just like this:

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/flightlines/

[Edited 2009-12-07 16:24:44]
 
Spacepope
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:36 am

My question is: Who cares?


after all, why not spotlight a great vintage fighter like the F-15?
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cpd
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:56 am



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 3):

No, but his staff menbers who are looking out for his image might have done it

In future, I suggest they put a computer graphic of a non-descript, non existant fighter plane in a neutral grey colour with no markings on it, and no identification as to the scene it is in, to avoid offending anyone.  Sad

I also suspect this is off-topic discussion. It is about politics, and not military aviation.
 
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par13del
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:48 pm

The initial thought of the article may be political, so I'll give a political then a military response.
Political: Makes you wonder why so many folks tend to talk about what the President will do or won't do, the folks around him are the ones we need to influence, they make all the decisions which we get us all hot and bothered..

Military: Is it possible that POTUS being pictured with an F-15 is tacitly expressing his support for those brave men and women who still fly this a/c inspite of the structural failures recently discovered, lets them know that even though there is a new more modern a/c in inventory with another right around the corner, they are still valued assets in the protection of the nation and will not be looked down upon because they are flying older a/c.
They have the full faith and support of the Commander in Chief whether they fly the F-15, the obsolete A-10 or the modern F-22, they are all one.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:14 pm



Quoting Evomutant (Reply 4):
He has been against the F-22.

Well, to be more specific, he was against adding funds for more F-22s to the budget beyond the 187 purchased, and was in favor of expedited funding of the F-35.
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dk1967
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:13 pm

Maybe it means he's FOR the F-15SE!
 
AirRyan
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:12 pm

It's that same ignorant arrogance that caused the demise of the VH-71. Make no mistake about it, the VH-71 was left to die not because it couldn't perform the mission or even meet costs, it was a scape-goat for the Obama administration so he would at least have something tangible to take back to the People to try and show them that he's being fiscally responsible. Lord knows that $787B Democrat shopping spree a.k.a. the stimulus bill was anything but fiscally prudent.
 
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:06 pm



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 11):
Make no mistake about it, the VH-71 was left to die not because it couldn't perform the mission or even meet costs, it was a scape-goat for the Obama administration so he would at least have something tangible to take back to the People to try and show them that he's being fiscally responsible.

How many people in the US even know what a VH-71 is? I'd guess less than 0.01% of the population. Stop making an off-topic mountain out of a molehill.
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PlayLoud
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:42 am

Nothing says "change" like keeping the same fighter around forever.
 
romeokc10fe
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:22 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 1):
Because Obama has always been against production of the F-22. The F-22 was to be used as the back drop but Obama had replaced with the F-15. Don't you just love that "hope and change".

He's been against the F-22 primarily because his SecDef has said from day one that he (Gates) doesn't want anymore than F-22s. And correct me I'm wrong but the current SecDef is a carry over from the last administration, he's just backing up is secDef like he should, but because he's Barrack Obama I guess that's wrong to.
 
PlayLoud
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:42 am



Quoting Romeokc10fe (Reply 14):
He's been against the F-22 primarily because his SecDef has said from day one that he (Gates) doesn't want anymore than F-22s. And correct me I'm wrong but the current SecDef is a carry over from the last administration, he's just backing up is secDef like he should, but because he's Barrack Obama I guess that's wrong to.

We weren't agreeing with Bush or Rumsfeld when the current cap was announced either. A bad decision is a bad decision, regardless of who is in office.
 
AirRyan
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:49 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
How many people in the US even know what a VH-71 is? I'd guess less than 0.01% of the population. Stop making an off-topic mountain out of a molehill.

Obama has already cited numerous times how he called for what he says is "waste" to be terminated, he just refers to them as his "Presidential helicopters," something that everyone knows about. If the V-22 can save itself from the axe, I'm surprised the F-22 can't.

The dumbest thing LM and the USAF ever did was start the JSF project at least five years too early. The USAF/LM should have milked as many F-22's as possible, sold more upgraded F-16's and F-15's, and then five to ten years later than what they did go out and seek a JSF.

 
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par13del
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:05 am



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 16):
The dumbest thing LM and the USAF ever did was start the JSF project at least five years too early. The USAF/LM should have milked as many F-22's as possible, sold more upgraded F-16's and F-15's, and then five to ten years later than what they did go out and seek a JSF.

Now you are saying that the F-15 and F-16 could have soldiered on for a few more years. Now I see why those folks look awestruck, they were around when the first thought of the F-22 being stopped was touted and this sentiment was no where around, where exactly did it come from  Smile
 
Curt22
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:45 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
How many people in the US even know what a VH-71 is? I'd guess less than 0.01% of the population. Stop making an off-topic mountain out of a molehill.

Be easy on AirRyan...his entire IRA appears to be tied to this dead program!
 
AirRyan
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:17 pm



Quoting Curt22 (Reply 18):

Be easy on AirRyan...his entire IRA appears to be tied to this dead program!

Insert the Jerry McGuire line here: "Show me the money!" Just show me how the VH-71 program was actually canceled due to fiscal related issues, that's all I ask. And every time the Pentagon was asked about this, they conveniently failed to also weigh into the equation the costs of extending the service life of the existing fleet of helicopters long enough so that they will last before their replacement can get online, not to mention the four billion already invested and the associated fees and penalties for terminating the contract.

Quote:
Carter said that in order to keep costs in check, the White House and Pentagon would prefer to use an existing helicopter platform instead of building a new helicopter from scratch.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbyi...ost-way-to-meet-helicopter-mission

Once again, those in the Government assuming that the People are idiots and just don't know what's going on. The VH-71 was spun-off of an existing helicopter platform that had been in service since the late 1990's and first flown in 1987! The VH-71 just wanted to add US components whenever possible, in addition to the customary gear required for use as a Presidential helicopter, so what Ashton Carter refers to as the goal of the next RFP is what they already had in the VH-71! Unfortunately for the taxpayer, HMX can't just take a VIP configured H-92 and fly the POTUS all around the world in it!

There is no way the next program comes in under what it would have costs to just finish VH-71 in Increment 1. That's all I argue - this program was not canceled because of cost over-runs. AW's CEO publicly said they could finish the Increment 1 buy for what would have equated to be around the price of the original bid, but it was almost as if four years and four billion taxpayer dollars down the road the Navy had actually changed their mind as to what they wanted, like a teenager at a new car lot with a blank check from their wealthy Uncle Sam, who in this case is actually in a retirement home, sucking on a respirator worried about the ponzi scheme he's used to build his family's fortune, from collapsing.

I've got the perfect Presidential helicopter for this current administration, and it might actually just come in under budget!

 
Flighty
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:28 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 7):
It is about politics, and not military aviation.

Are they so different?  airplane 
 
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:52 pm



Quoting Playloud (Reply 13):
Nothing says "change" like keeping the same fighter around forever.

Nothing says "change" like stopping production of the F-22 and accelerating production of the F-35 (or did you miss that part?).
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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PlayLoud
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:11 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
Nothing says "change" like stopping production of the F-22 and accelerating production of the F-35 (or did you miss that part?).

My post was in regard to the swapping out an F-22 for an F-15.
 
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:44 pm



Quoting Playloud (Reply 22):
My post was in regard to the swapping out an F-22 for an F-15.

Ahh, ok, I get it...
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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wvsuperhornet
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:54 am



Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
This particular base would have a premiere fighter like the F-22 to be displayed behind the president as he talked, so why was an F-15 put there instead. Does this mean that Obama will always avoid photo ops with the F-22 ?

Very doubtfull, I doubt Obama really cares whats displayed behind him, he is too indulged in himself to worry about that. My guess is that none of the F-22's were avalible that day probably due to training elsewhere if being worked on. It also could be that the US doesn't really want a F-22 that is actually in service photo'd, it could mean alot of things but I wouldn't read anything into him not being photo'ed next to one. He is a big supporter of the F-35 and I haven't seen any pictures with those either.
 
L-188
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RE: Did Obama Snub The F-22 At Elmendorf?

Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:08 am

It was a snub for political expedience.

Actually the fact the false president was up here breathing my air is in itself an insult.
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