epten
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A-10 And Harm

Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:46 pm

Can A-10 carry and launch AGM-88?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:44 pm

No, I don't think it can carry the HARM. I doubt the A-10 has the avionics or weapons pylons required to target and launch that missile. Also the A-10 does not have an attack radar. From a weight point of view, it can,
 
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STT757
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:58 pm

What aircraft do carry the HARM?..

F-15E?
F-16?
F-18?
EA-6B?
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:05 pm

Don't think the F-15E does, but the rest of your list can.

Add:
EF-18G
Tornado
MQ-9?
F-4E
The F-35 is slated to carry it too.
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mechatnew
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:49 pm

The retired A-7E Corsiar, and A-6E Intruder could alos carry the HARM.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:42 am

The F-105F Wild Weasels also carried an early version of HARM back during the Vietnam War, too.
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:56 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
The F-105F Wild Weasels also carried an early version of HARM back during the Vietnam War, too.

You're talking about Standard Arm, I presume? Standard Arm and HARM have two entirely different external configurations so I'm not sure how they're related. And we had that missile on our F-105Gs at George right up to retirement of the plane.
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BMI727
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
The F-105F Wild Weasels also carried an early version of HARM back during the Vietnam War, too

Those would probably also have carried Shrikes as well, but neither is the same as the HARM.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
No, I don't think it can carry the HARM. I doubt the A-10 has the avionics or weapons pylons required to target and launch that missile. Also the A-10 does not have an attack radar. From a weight point of view, it can,

Plus, that is not really a part of the A-10's mission nor are large radar guided SAMs a major threat to them. At the altitudes where A-10s operate they are much more likely to be hit by AAA or smaller IR guided SAMs, including MANPADS.
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:51 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Plus, that is not really a part of the A-10's mission nor are large radar guided SAMs a major threat to them. At the altitudes where A-10s operate they are much more likely to be hit by AAA or smaller IR guided SAMs, including MANPADS.

in actual use against "front line" military nations, the radar guided missile has proven to be the big killer of A10. They fly high to keep the SA)">AA from eating them alive and the assumption was that the dedicated anti-SAM efforts would keep the A10 safe at higher alititudes (10K ft or higher). Reality set in that during the 92 gulf war the SA-2 wasn't properly in the A10's warning system and plenty of them were left after the day one roll up of the air defenses. Given the A10's radar cross section that resembles that of a barn, and the large size of the usual SAM missile its a very nasty threat.

That said, the A10 did do plenty of work against SAM sites and sites protected by SAMs. Just a little on the dangerous side and they finaly pushed back when the F16's were being used for low threat work close to the border while the A10s were running long range missions against high threat targets.

Its one of the reasons I'd love to see a 2nd gen A10 done from the ground up. Modern computer modeling could likely cut a huge chunk of the radar issue out making medium altitude much safer while also improving all other aspects of survivabliy and offensive capiblity.
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:30 am



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 8):
Its one of the reasons I'd love to see a 2nd gen A10 done from the ground up. Modern computer modeling could likely cut a huge chunk of the radar issue out making medium altitude much safer while also improving all other aspects of survivabliy and offensive capiblity.

I agree 100%. We will be in for a surprise if we really think that the F-35 can do what the A-10 can. And the A-10 is a relatively cheap aircraft to boot, and really the A-10 is one of the best out there in terms of bang for the buck.
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spudh
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:03 pm

Pretty hard to 'stealtify' 11 hard points worth of weapons.

A ground up redo of the A10 would not look like the A10 if stealth is a design parameter.
Weapons would have to go internal and the barrel of the gun would be pretttttty hard to conceal, you'd see the start of big argument about how effective the gun really was.

I'd be more interested to see more avionics/power go into the existing airframe and let it actively take up the role as a Sam killer.

And dare I say it, how about a second seat?
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:05 pm



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 8):
in actual use against "front line" military nations, the radar guided missile has proven to be the big killer of A10.

What were the actual losses of the A-10 vs radar SAMs? None in OIF, OEF, Kosovo or Serbia... Were there any in ODS?
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ThePointblank
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:21 am



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 11):
What were the actual losses of the A-10 vs radar SAMs? None in OIF, OEF, Kosovo or Serbia... Were there any in ODS?

6 A-10/OA-10's lost in Desert Storm; 5 to IR guided SAM's, and 1 to AAA.
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:11 am



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 12):
6 A-10/OA-10's lost in Desert Storm; 5 to IR guided SAM's, and 1 to AAA.

So the question now is, has the A-10 ever suffered losses to radar SAMs at all?
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L-188
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:53 am



Quoting Spudh (Reply 10):

And dare I say it, how about a second seat?

Was done back early in the program. For night interdiction, the Air Force didn't take Republic up on it, so only one flying prototype was built.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 13):
So the question now is, has the A-10 ever suffered losses to radar SAMs at all?

I don't think so. Radar guided SAMS have a big disadvantage, namely a big radar transmitting signals to everybody, including the wild weasels flying top cover, saying "HERE I AM!!!"

In the desert the Iraqi's really couldn't turn their radars on period, without a HARM headed back their direction.

I

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
No, I don't think it can carry the HARM.

As a weapon probably not, but it's rail probably can be carried on the hardpoints, they should be a standard size. But that is a hard way to ferry weapons to somebody that can use them. I have only heard of that being done in WWII, using pursuit assets to move ordinace to the field and even that was a last resort.
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ThePointblank
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:59 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
As a weapon probably not, but it's rail probably can be carried on the hardpoints, they should be a standard size. But that is a hard way to ferry weapons to somebody that can use them. I have only heard of that being done in WWII, using pursuit assets to move ordinace to the field and even that was a last resort.

Didn't the F-111F's of the 48th TFW when they deployed to Saudi Arabia during Desert Shield carry a full complement of Paveway's when they flew from their base in the UK to their new base in Saudi Arabia to provide the initial stock of weapons?
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:06 am

Sounds plausible. The us burned through most of their remaining stock of MK117 750 pound bombs at that time, and there are rumors of B-52s dropping Spanish and British bombs.

On the flipside, UK Reapers in A-stan are using US weapons (bombs and hellfires).
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bhill
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:10 pm

Curious, what wavelength/frequencies does the HARM "lock" on to? All/any microwave emissions, or select frequencies base on the type of radar being used?
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kc135topboom
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:22 pm

I don't think the OA/A-10A, or a follow on design really needs stealth. Its main mission is all ground attack stuff, going after tanks and troop consintrations along with the AH-64A/D. The biggest threats to an A-10 is MANPAKs and AAA like the Zu-24-4. At that point, enemy defenses can actually see the A-10s, so radar is not needed to find them.
 
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:00 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
The biggest threats to an A-10 is MANPAKs

What exactly is a MANPAK, you've used this term a few times.

Is it similar to a MANPAD?
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kc135topboom
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RE: A-10 And Harm

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:01 pm



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
The biggest threats to an A-10 is MANPAKs

What exactly is a MANPAK, you've used this term a few times.

Is it similar to a MANPAD?

It is very bad spelling for MANPAD......sorry.

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