maddogjt8d
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Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:26 pm

Seems like a somewhat trivial question, but I was watching CNBC and they showed Air Force 1 landing and I realized that neither of the VC-25's are outfitted with winglets. Why is this? Why weren't they outfitted with winglets from the factory? They were built with what looks like a military version of the CF6-80C, so they must be new enough to have been around when winglets were designed for the 744. It would certainly be prudent as a fuel saving measure to do this kind of mod, since they have been outfitting the 757 and 737 equivalents with winglets over the past year or two. Anybody have any insight into this area?
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:32 pm

I suppose you mean you saw it landing in YYZ. I have been listening to the feed for the last 15 minutes. I would guess that the VC-25 does not have winglets due to hit being based on the -200 series 747 airframe. As you know, the 747-200 does not offer the option of winglets.
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United_fan
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:51 pm

AFAIK,nobody has add-on winglets for the classic 747's. I am not sure if the wingtips are strong enough for them.
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Cadet57
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:59 pm

Perhaps because the "current" AF1 was designed in the late 80's and delivered in 1990 before winglets were commonplace. Or the fact that its a modified -200 airframe. Not to mention there are no winglets on 747s besides the -400
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northstardc4m
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:22 pm

They looked at blended winglets for the 747 classic but no one bought it as i recall.
Also, with the modifications in the VC-25, would the wing structure be modifiable to allow them, don't forget the 744 has a wing extension as well as the winglets.
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KBOS
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:33 pm

AF 1 can also be refueled mid air making range less of an issue.....
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citationjet
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:36 pm

AF1 is based on the 747-200, not the -400. I haven't seen winglets on any -200's.

AF1 is a low utilization aircraft, so even if winglets were available, the payback would be lower than for a high ultilization commercial airliner.

The government's priority is not to minimize operational costs for AF1.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:04 pm

Also if we are looking at a new AF-1, based on the B-747-8I, in 2017, or so there would be no reason to equip the VC-25As with winglets. I am sure they will stay in the USAF inventory until about 2025, or so, and redesignated as C-25As, there still would not be much of a ROI in 15 years.

In stead of winglets, or blended winglets, raked wingtips might be cheaper and a faster ROI.
 
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zeke
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:45 am

Quoting MadDogJT8D (Thread starter):
Why weren't they outfitted with winglets from the factory?

No 747 classics were factory fitted, Aviation Partners Boeing did flight test winglets on a 747 classic some time back. The Museum of Flight used to at one stage have one of these on display.



Image from Flight Global : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-737-classic-and-747-winglets.html

Quoting MadDogJT8D (Thread starter):
They were built with what looks like a military version of the CF6-80C, so they must be new enough to have been around when winglets were designed for the 744.

Not all 744s received winglets, the short haul 744D at JAL do not have them.


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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
there still would not be much of a ROI in 15 years.

Never seen any military aircraft with a ROI.

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 4):
Also, with the modifications in the VC-25, would the wing structure be modifiable to allow them, don't forget the 744 has a wing extension as well as the winglets.

Also has a might higher MTOW, I doubt AF1 would ever require the 744 MTOW, I would think it would only have a low to mid sized payload for a 747.
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747classic
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:53 am

Here is some additional info about this subject :

Why No Winglets/raked Tips On VC-25/32 Or E-4's? (by LHCVG Nov 13 2009 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)
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DLSLC
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RE: Why Doesn't AF1 Have Winglets?

Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 6):
The government's priority is not to minimize operational costs for AF1.

My thoughts exactly. I have done a lot of research on AF1, and there is very little concern about money and expenses when it comes to flying that bird. They are willing to do whatever it takes to complete the primary mission, and little concern for much else.

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