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bikerthai
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F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:32 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...on-including-84-f-15-fighters.html

"A proposed U.S. arms sale to Saudi Arabia will include 84 new Boeing Co. F-15 fighter jets and may be valued at as much as $30 billion, according to a government official familiar with the plan. "

If followed through, it would provide a significant boost to the F-15 line. Maybe there would be some "SE" in the mix?



bikerthai
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Devilfish
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:49 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Thread starter):
Maybe there would be some "SE" in the mix?

I really hope so - might even make up most of the 84. Besides, their older Eagles could be radically updated with the "SE kit" - going by Boeing's previous pronouncements.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-and-f-18-fighter-development.html
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kc135topboom
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 pm

The F-15SE would be a good addition to the RSAF, and would be useful in helping to keep Iran in check. I see they also want UH-60s and the LCS, too.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:10 pm

This is terrible news - its going to completely upset the balance of power in the region.


Coupled with comprehensive arms sanctions on Iran - This just gave them 84 new reasons to go nuclear (if they needed any more to add to the already very good reasons they have)


Don't people realise a rat is most dangerous when cornered?
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LAXintl
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:04 pm

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 3):
This is terrible news - its going to completely upset the balance of power in the region.

     

Saudi Arabia and its Gulf neighbors deserve to have equipment that can protect them. The US and entire West has huge national security interest in protecting the region, and cant sit around on our hands with or without Iran in the picture even.

By the way, a sale to Saudis means further sales to Israel, which also means a bit more sales to Egypt also.
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bikerthai
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
means further sales to Israel,

Looks like that Israel is getting the F-35.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1920195720100719

Which would make it less likely that Israel supporters in Congress would block the Saudi Sale.


bikerthai
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Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:53 pm

$30 billion? That's more than Boeing or Airbus did during the entire Farnborough airshow!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
bennett123
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:37 pm

One question.

How secure is the House of Saud.

iirc Iran bought their F14's when they were our friends.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:54 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 7):
How secure is the House of Saud

Very secure - till the next oil price slump

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 7):
Iran bought their F14's when they were our friends.

yes and in those days Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld were the the biggest supporters of Nuclear Iran
not just power plants - bombs and all.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2067

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Kis...msfel-by-DC-Rapier-080810-968.html
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Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:16 pm

Here's a Reuters article on the subject.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNN229423520100722?rpc=44

I've always wondered why Saudi Arabia didn't take a couple dozen C-17s? They'd work internally if nothing else.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
bennett123
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:41 am

How many people in the mid 1970's expected the Shah to fall when the US sold them F14's.

Simply assuming that the KSA will stay the same is very risky.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:11 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 15):
Simply assuming that the KSA will stay the same is very risky.

It would be lucrative to sell arms to both antagonists . . . India/Pakistan for example.   

bikerthai

[Edited 2010-07-25 06:02:43 by srbmod]
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BMI727
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:48 am

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 3):
This is terrible news - its going to completely upset the balance of power in the region

Quite the contrary actually. Continuing support to both sides of the conflict gives the US leverage to hopefully contain things if the situation goes south. Having middle eastern militaries receiving large amounts of American aid basically means that no one can win without our permission.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5):
Looks like that Israel is getting the F-35

Well, we had better sell some to Jordan, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia as well.

[Edited 2010-07-25 06:04:30 by srbmod]
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bennett123
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:10 pm

KC135TopBoom

Why would Israel fly over Saudi to hit Iran?.
 
bennett123
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:24 pm

Any major change upsets the balance of power.

Perhaps you mean upset in an undesirable way.

Besides surely KSA has superiority already.

If it is a case of "new shiny toys" lets say so.
 
474218
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:39 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 21):
Why would Israel fly over Saudi to hit Iran?.


Because Jordan, Syria and Iraq have not approved Israeli over flights and Saudi Arabia has?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...rld/middle_east/article7148555.ece
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:42 pm

All the diversionary arguments won't stop this deal; the Saudis have the money to spend and we have the hardware. If we don't sell it to them, there are at least two European nations I could name that would instantly offer them their own home grown alternatives. Does anyone here doubt that? Would Putin impose conditions on a similar sale to Saudi Arabia? Of course not!

I'm hoping they take C-17s as well.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:25 am

Quoting lumberton (Reply 26):
All the diversionary arguments won't stop this deal

since when did discussion become "diversion"?

How would you rather this forum operate?
Announcement of a sale followed by congratulatory messages only?

Second - nobody doubts this deal is now fait accompli - nobody's debating IF it will go through but rather WHY it should or should not have been signed in the first place.

Quoting lumberton (Reply 26):
the Saudis have the money to spend and we have the hardware.

So do the Chinese - I'm sure if we offered them license production of the F-22 they'd throw a whole lot of money are way. they have 2.5 TRILLION - thats right TRILLION dollars in CASH. So what?

Quoting lumberton (Reply 26):
If we don't sell it to them, there are at least two European nations I could name that would instantly offer them their own home grown alternatives. Does anyone here doubt that?

Have we been reading the same thread? - pls read replies 14 and 18 - nobody doubts that Europe will fill the vacuum - the point is the threat of primary, secondary and tertiary sanction will be enough to strong arm them not to. .... Just as Russia was strong armed into not selling the S-300 to Iran and Israel was strong armed into not selling the Phalcon to China.

Quoting lumberton (Reply 26):
Would Putin impose conditions on a similar sale to Saudi Arabia?

So we should start selling to Libya, Iraq, Venezuela, Sudan, Syria, Burma and China too ?
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kc135topboom
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:40 pm

Quoting lumberton (Reply 16):
I'm hoping they take C-17s as well.

That would be nice, but I don't think they need them.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5):
Looks like that Israel is getting the F-35

Well, we had better sell some to Jordan, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia as well.

Well, if KSA is buying the F-15SE (which model F-15 are they buying?), they won't need the F-35. I doubt Egypt or Jordan could afford the F-35.
 
Devilfish
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:47 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
means further sales to Israel,

Looks like that Israel is getting the F-35.

They're considering their options.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...buy-over-100-f35s-02381/#more-2381

Quote:
"July 8/10: Boeing flies its stealth-enhanced F-15SE Silent Eagle, for the first time, demonstrating the weapon bay operation in flight. The next stage will involve firing an AIM-120 air to air missile from the recessed weapon bay, which is part of the plane’s conformal fuel tank.

Boeing executives are also quoted as saying that they expect export approval for the F-15SE, and have received interest for Korea. A Jerusalem Post report adds Israel to this list, citing several conversations between Israeli defense officials and Boeing about F-15SE capabilities, and possible interest in a cheaper Silent Eagle bridge buy that allows full Israeli customization, while the F-35A achieves greater cost certainty and lower production costs."


[Edited 2010-07-25 17:27:26]
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kc135topboom
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 19):
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
means further sales to Israel,

Looks like that Israel is getting the F-35.

They're considering their options.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-2381

As long as allowing our allies access to the softwear is an issue, I suspect Isreal will wait to confirm their F-35A order. But, I suspect if the KSA gets the F-15SE, so will Isreal.
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:46 pm

News report that Kuwait is also looking at the F-15SE.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Devilfish
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:23 pm

Here.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ts-interest-for-f-15-from-new.html

Quote:
"Kuwait has surprised Boeing by asking for information on the F-15 Silent Eagle, making it the first non-operator of classic F-15s to express an interest in the latest version of the fighter.

Paul Oliver, Boeing's vice-president for the Middle East and Africa, confirms that a Middle Eastern country that is looking to 'recapitalise' its air force has expressed an interest. However, he declines to say if the country is Kuwait.

[.....]

'Right not, this potential customer is asking if it can have information about the F-15. A lot of customers are looking to recapitalise their fighters,' he adds. 'There are a lot of countries looking for alternative platforms to the [Lockheed Martin] F-35 in the Middle East, and this is one of those'."
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trex8
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Quoting lumberton (Reply 16):
I'm hoping they take C-17s as well.

That would be nice, but I don't think they need them.

if the UAE has a use for them I would think the Saudis have a even better reason to need them!
 
Devilfish
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:13 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):

Well, if KSA is buying the F-15SE (which model F-15 are they buying?), they won't need the F-35.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
But, I suspect if the KSA gets the F-15SE, so will Isreal.

To correct myself, it turns out that the Silent Eagle is not being offered to the Saudis afterall - according to this blog.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...audia-arabia-israel-and-the-f.html

Quote:
"The Wall Street Journal reports that the US will sell 82 F-15Es to Saudi Arabia over objections from Israel. According to the article, standoff weapons were the main issue of concern in Jerusalem. Of course, standoff weapons are only necessary if the aircraft is unable to penetrate defended airspace to release weapons directly over the target. Boeing has designed the F-15SE Silent Eagle precisely for that mission, but the company has been careful to point out that Saudi is not a potential customer for Silent Eagle. The WSJ article about Israel's concerns probably explains why."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:41 am

Up to 60 Apache's are being discussed and the deal is up to USD$60 billion, according to this article.

Saudi arms deal could involve 60 Apaches from Mesa

Quote:
The helicopters, which are considered the most sophisticated and powerful weapons of their type in the world, would be in addition to 12 that Boeing is selling the Saudis under a 2008 deal approved by Congress. The helicopters sell for $25 million to $30 million apiece.

Separately, there is an article from an Arab newspaper that says the Saudis just signed for 12 787s.

Big buying binge for sure.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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par13del
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:55 am

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 17):
Have we been reading the same thread? - pls read replies 14 and 18 - nobody doubts that Europe will fill the vacuum - the point is the threat of primary, secondary and tertiary sanction will be enough to strong arm them not to. ....

I'm confused by this point, Europe has already sold Saudia Arabia Tornados and Eurofighters, the Typhoon is a more modern a/c than the F-15, what strong arms tactic has the US used to prevent the sale and why did it not work?
I am aware of competitions for orders by both sides, so far the last major hurdle I am aware of the US putting up is the foreign sale of their F-22.
Europe has created "another" arms industry free of US technology just for situations like this where they are free to sell products to third parties that have very little to no US content.
I believe that Israel wanted the F-35 to counter the Eurofighter, still competition but not by prevention of sale.
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:04 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 26):
I believe that Israel wanted the F-35 to counter the Eurofighter, still competition but not by prevention of sale.

More likely, this is why they want it.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
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par13del
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:27 pm

Possibly one scenario, but 20 a/c against thousands of conventional missiles is not a pretty numbers picture.The bulk of those missiles are not true "precision types", coupled with the need for smaller internal loads if the F-35 is to remain stealthy makes 20 a/c seem way overmatched. I'm sure they have a lot of data from the US scud patrols during the Gulf Wars, missiles and launchers today are so cheap compared to the billions spent on modern a/c.

If selective "political" strikes, "other deniable" means exist for that, with less political fall out.

If nuclear, there will be no subtle messages sent, the assumption is that their missiles already have sufficient range to reach any potential threats in the middle east, as usual, we have no confirmation of such  

I question whether the sensor technology is only availabe in the F-35, if that is the case it could be another reson for wanting the a/c, my opinion is that no agreement would prevent them from reverse engineering to produce their own equivalent.

In the end we will only know the true reasons if the a/c are ever used, but until then, speculation is a good thing.  
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:16 pm

The Obama Administration has notified Congress of its intent. Now its official. Congress has 30 days to object; no serious road blocks are anticipated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11587348
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AirRyan
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:42 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 29):
The Obama Administration has notified Congress of its intent. Now its official. Congress has 30 days to object; no serious road blocks are anticipated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-c...87348

Good thing we will know the election results in the first week of November, and besides as we have seen with the health care bill that they passed despite reading it nor a majority of voters favoring the bill, this act could very well be repealed just as well in January long before Boeing has time to do much of anything.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:20 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 30):
this act could very well be repealed just as well in January long before Boeing has time to do much of anything.

Not likely no matter who wins this November because of the following reasons:

1) Jobs, jobs, jobs . . . .
2) Israel passively gave it's blessing ('cause they are getting the F-35).

bikerthai
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trex8
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:26 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 30):
Good thing we will know the election results in the first week of November, and besides as we have seen with the health care bill that they passed despite reading it nor a majority of voters favoring the bill, this act could very well be repealed just as well in January long before Boeing has time to do much of anything.

Arms sales notifications are hardly ever vetoed, they do not need to be passed by congress to occur, just not vetoed to stop them. They usually go through with no discussion since they are only discussed if there is serious opposition in congress which is as rare as hens teeth, the executive branch having usually a good handle on what controversial sales won't go through.The only times this has ever come up has been with the initial proposal for F15 sale to Saudis back in the 80s (torpedoed on its first try by the Israel lobby), and some sales to Turks killed by the Greek lobby. I suspect the White House has an agreement with Tel Aviv, the F35 deal goes through and Bibi keeps Aipac from doing anything in congress on the Saudi deal and everyone is happy.
 
Devilfish
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:56 pm

Well, we can say the F15-SAs they're getting will come fully-loaded.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...4-f_15s%2C-100%2B-helicopters.html

Saudi Arabia – F-15SA Aircraft

(Source: Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued Oct. 20, 2010)

Quote:
"WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Saudi Arabia of:

-- 84 F-15SA Aircraft
-- 170 APG-63(v)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar (AESA) radar sets
-- 193 F-110-GE-129 Improved Performance Engines
-- 100 M61 Vulcan Cannons
-- 100 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminal (MIDS/LVT) and spares
-- 193 LANTIRN Navigation Pods (3rd Generation-Tiger Eye)
-- 338 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
-- 462 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVGS)
-- 300 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles
-- 25 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM-9X)
-- 25 Special Air Training Missiles (NATM-9X)
-- 500 AIM-120C/7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
-- 25 AIM-120 CATMs
-- 1,000 Dual Mode Laser/Global Positioning System (GPS) Guided Munitions (500 lb)
-- 1,000 Dual Mode Laser/GPS Guided Munitions (2000 lb)
-- 1,100 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bombs (2000 lb)
-- 1,000 GBU-31B V3 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) (2000 lb)
-- 1,300 CBU-105D/B Sensor Fuzed Weapons (SFW)/Wind-Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD)
-- 50 CBU-105 Inert
-- 1,000 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs
-- 6,000 MK-82 500lb Inert Training Bombs
-- 2,000 MK-84 2000lb General Purpose Bombs
-- 2,000 MK-84 2000lb Inert Training Bombs
-- 200,000 20mm Cartridges
-- 400,000 20mm Target Practice Cartridges
-- 400 AGM-84 Block II HARPOON Missiles
-- 600 AGM-88B HARM Missiles
-- 169 Digital Electronic Warfare Systems (DEWS)
-- 158 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Targeting Systems
-- 169 AN/AAS-42 Infrared Search and Track (IRST) Systems
-- 10 DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods
-- 462 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System Helmets
-- 40 Remotely Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER)
-- 80 Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Pods.
"
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:32 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 33):
Saudi Arabia – F-15SA Aircraft

What is astonishing is the scope of this order. You only highlighted the F-15 related items. The article also details the rotary wing toys.

Quote:
-- 36 AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters
-- 72 UH-60M BLACKHAWK Helicopters
-- 36 AH-6i Light Attack Helicopters
-- 12 MD-530F Light Turbine Helicopters
-- 243 T700-GE-701D Engines
-- 40 Modernized Targeting Acquisition and Designation Systems/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
-- 20 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars with Radar Electronics Unit
-- 20 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer
-- 171 AN/APR-39 Radar Signal Detecting Sets
-- 171 AN/AVR-2B Laser Warning Sets
-- 171 AAR-57(V)3/5 Common Missile Warning Systems
-- 318 Improved Countermeasures Dispensers
-- 40 Wescam MX-15Di (AN/AAQ-35) Sight/Targeting Sensors
-- 40 GAU-19/A 12.7mm (.50 caliber) Gatling Guns
-- 108 Improved Helmet Display Sight Systems
-- 52 30mm Automatic Weapons
-- 18 Aircraft Ground Power Units
-- 168 M240H Machine Guns
-- 300 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles
-- 421 M310 A1 Modernized Launchers
-- 158 M299 HELLFIRE Longbow Missile Launchers
-- 2,592 AGM-114R HELLFIRE II Missiles
-- 1,229 AN/PRQ-7 Combat Survivor Evader Locators
-- 4 BS-1 Enhanced Terminal Voice Switches
-- 4 Digital Airport Surveillance Radars
-- 4 Fixed-Base Precision Approach Radar
-- 4 DoD Advanced Automation Service
-- 4 Digital Voice Recording Systems.

Also included are trainers, simulators, generators, munitions, design and construction, transportation, wheeled vehicles and organization equipment, tools and test equipment, communication equipment, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems, GPS/INS, spare and repair parts, support equipment, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of program support.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
trex8
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:11 pm

very strange but on the dsca site http://www.dsca.mil there are 3 separate notifications for the choppers, one for 10 AH64D, one for 24 and one for a buy of multiple types with 36! So is it one of the 3 or all 70!
 
Lumberton
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:17 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 35):
! So is it one of the 3 or all 70!

I believe it is 36 total AH-64, but at this point I'd venture no one knows the real number they'll ultimately sign for.

Speaking of helicopters, it seems the French didn't want to go away quietly on this one...quoting from (appropriately enough) a French magazine:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...ssia-out-of-saudi-helo-market.html

Quote:
It is a spectacular win for the political faction formerly headed by Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz, the Saudi Crown Prince, (Edited to reflect that the faction, Sultan himself having withdrawn from politics because of grave illness--Ed.) deputy prime minister and Minister of Defense and Aviation, whose pre-eminent role in arms purchasing was rescinded by King Abdallah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud, his half-brother, whose entourage backed closer arms cooperation with Russia.

It is also worth noting that Adm. Edouard Guillaud, the French chief of the defense staff and former military advisor to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, made a three-day visit to Saudi Arabia Oct- 8-10. Guillaud, who in his previous job took a direct hand in promoting French arms exports, appears to have failed in a last-minute attempt to preserve at least some orders for French industry.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
AirRyan
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:40 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 31):
2) Israel passively gave it's blessing ('cause they are getting the F-35).

I disagree, that's hardly a vote of approval however since Israeli allies in the US government are presently in the minority, they will have to wait and see.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 32):
Arms sales notifications are hardly ever vetoed, they do not need to be passed by congress to occur, just not vetoed to stop them. They usually go through with no discussion since they are only discussed if there is serious opposition in congress which is as rare as hens teeth

Saudi arms sales always raise an eyebrow and they are some of the most likely to get reduced, or eliminated all together.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 32):
the executive branch having usually a good handle on what controversial sales won't go through

However a very strong argument could be made that the present Executive branch has no good handle on much of anything. This is a bogus deal, of extreme proportions, rammed through Congress at an all time derelict level of incompetency, that is the only way a deal like this gets through Congress.
 
baroque
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:15 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 37):
This is a bogus deal, of extreme proportions, rammed through Congress at an all time derelict level of incompetency, that is the only way a deal like this gets through Congress.

Are you writing about the F-15 deal or the F-35 deal? Either or both might acquire a different hue if this leads to anything.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...tanding-with-saudi-arabia-1.321362
Iran and Saudi Arabia are working together to divide up their sphere of influence in Lebanon and Iraq.
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allegro
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:35 pm

So it looks like Pres. Obama bowing to King Abdullah did pay off ...  

One bow = $60B ... not bad.

Congrats to Boeing and all involved. Much needed shot in the arm for a shrinking defense budget.
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:59 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 37):
Saudi arms sales always raise an eyebrow and they are some of the most likely to get reduced, or eliminated all together.

And the last time it happened like I said was the first attempt to sell F15s almost 30 years ago now

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 37):
This is a bogus deal, of extreme proportions, rammed through Congress at an all time derelict level of incompetency, that is the only way a deal like this gets through Congress.

As I also pointed out, these deals don't get "passed" by Congress so much as they don't get vetoed!
They also cannot get changed, they are either vetoed or they go through as a formality, if Congress wants to "restrict" things they have to veto the present notification and the White House will come back with one more palatable to them like Carter did to get the first Saudi deal through.I guess Obama will just join the ranks of Carter, Reagan, Bush I and Clinton as pro Saudi, anti Israeli presidents who ram these F15 deals through Congress.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:29 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 37):
I disagree, that's hardly a vote of approval however since Israeli allies in the US government are presently in the minority, they will have to wait and see.

From: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terro...-billion-arms-sale-to-Saudi-Arabia

"The Jerusalem Post reports that Israel is not expected to object to the arms deal, despite some reservations, as it does not threaten Israel's military advantage in the Middle East. However, Israel is "not thrilled about it," said spokesman Jonathan Peled of the Israeli Embassy in Washington."

"not thrilled about it," as in we prefer the lesser of two evils . . .  

"And while such a massive arms sale in past decades would have drawn severe opposition from Israel, now experts say that Israeli and Saudi interests are so similarly aligned against Iran that Israel is amenable to the deal."

AKA . . . we're more concerned about Iran right now. We will deal with the Saudi if and when the times come.

bikerthai
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:37 pm

Not bad for US arms companies. Looks like a lot of the ammunition is replacement for what the F-15S fleet burned through earlier this year on the Yemen border.
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Slightly OT, but if this report is true Spain seems to be selling the core of its armored force to Saudia Arabia. I wonder why they didn't go for German ones?

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4996121&c=MID&s=LAN
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ThePointblank
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:39 am

Quoting lumberton (Reply 43):
Slightly OT, but if this report is true Spain seems to be selling the core of its armored force to Saudia Arabia. I wonder why they didn't go for German ones?

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...s=LAN

It may be new production Leopards, not existing Leopards because the numbers being bandied about IS the entire Spanish Leopard 2E force, and then some.
 
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:32 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 44):
It may be new production Leopards, not existing Leopards because the numbers being bandied about IS the entire Spanish Leopard 2E force, and then some.

Yes its close to their entire force, but perhaps they decided they don't need heavy armor anymore? BTW, would Germany allow Spain to produce these things under license for export?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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Faro
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RE: F-15 To Saudi Arabia?

Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:13 pm

Quoting lumberton (Reply 16):
the Saudis have the money to spend and we have the hardware. If

They also have the money to buy personal A380's, inter-stellar yachts and gold-plated mouse traps. Doesn't mean that people should indulge their every wish. USD 60 billion is 10% of Saudi GDP, which is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on defence. Imagine the UK spending USD 220 billion on one arms deal if the Soviets were still around...

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