Gonzalo
Topic Author
Posts: 1527
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:43 am

Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:54 am

According to news agency EFE Brazil and Chile sign a MOU for the development and construction of a new cargo aircraft, with better capacity than the C-130H.

Link in Spanish only.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa...ALeqM5isKhsakn1Jf1P0EHgbPEHKUsKr4w


Thoughts ?

Rgds.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:05 am

This is a military cargo aircraft that has been under development by Embraer, the KC-390. This belongs under the Military Aviation forum, though.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
CamiloA380
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:43 am

So Chile will make parts for the KC-390? Is Argentina also involved?
Flying4Ever!
 
Gonzalo
Topic Author
Posts: 1527
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:43 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:57 pm

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 2):
So Chile will make parts for the KC-390? Is Argentina also involved?

Chile has a small state-run aviation industry called ENAER ( Empresa Nacional de AERonáutica ), which produces some small training aircraft and surely has the capacity ( potential or established ) to produce some parts of the future KC-390. But surely the main construction of the aircraft will be made by EMBraer in Brazil.
They don't mention Argentina, Uruguay or any other Mercosur country in the article, so I guess this will be only between Chile and Brazil. Besides, a Memorandum Of Understanding is never the last word about a project, is just the beginning of the negotiations, and a lot of things can happen in the future, including the addition of more countries in the project.

Rgds.

G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5257
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:37 pm

Chile is also planning to acquire six KC-390s.....


.http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...er's-kc_390-airlifter-program.html

Chile’s Air Force declares its intention to acquire six of the military transport jets


Quote:
"Based on this agreement, Chile’s National Aeronautical Enterprise (Empresa Nacional de Aeronáutica – ENAER) becomes engaged in the discussions about the development of the airplane and in supplying part of its structure. The declaration also marks the beginning of negotiations regarding the future acquisition of six KC-390 aircraft to equip the Chilean Air Force (FACH)."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:53 am

The KC 390 is an interesting alternative for countries that can not afford the A400M and don´t want the C130J.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:29 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
According to news agency EFE Brazil and Chile sign a MOU for the development and construction of a new cargo aircraft, with better capacity than the C-130H.

Link in Spanish only.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa...ALeqM5isKhsakn1Jf1P0EHgbPEHKUsKr4w

Thoughts ?

The 23-24t KC390 with slightly higher/wider cargo deck seems an convinient option.

Then there the 37t A400M and 80t C-17. I guess tactical and financial requirements also play a role..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:58 pm

Quoting keesje (Reply 6):
The 23-24t KC390 with slightly higher/wider cargo deck seems an convinient option.

Then there the 37t A400M and 80t C-17. I guess tactical and financial requirements also play a role..

Isn't the C/KC-390 cheaper than the C-130J/J-30, A-400. or C-17? It thought the price was near the Japanese C-X, about $70M-$80M USD?
 
CamiloA380
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:52 pm

Its official..

Chile enters talks on joining Embraer KC-390 programme.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ning-embraer-kc-390-programme.html

Camilo   
Flying4Ever!
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:42 pm

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 8):
Its official..

Chile enters talks on joining Embraer KC-390 programme.

Great news for Chile and Embraer. But the artical mentions nothing about France and its possible order for 12 KC-390s. What happened?
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:35 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Great news for Chile and Embraer. But the artical mentions nothing about France and its possible order for 12 KC-390s. What happened?

That hinges on the FAB ordering Rafales, which seems likely, eventually. . . . (maybe after election this year, but I also thought this 8 years ago, and then again 4 years ago. . .)
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
SandroMag
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:36 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:23 pm

This was a very good week for Embraer and the KC-390 Program. Now is Colombia to join the project and add 12 more to the orderbook.

From Flightglobal

Colombia formalises Embraer KC-390 interest

Colombian officials have signed a declaration of intent with Brazil to take part in the development and production of the Embraer KC-390 military tanker/transport as well as to purchase 12 aircraft.

Along with similar arrangements in Chile, which could purchase six aircraft for the Chilean Air Force, and internal interest in Brazil for 28 aircraft with deliveries starting in 2016, Embraer's potential order count is up to 46 of the twin-jets. The airframer is discussing the program with other potential partners, including Portugal and South Africa, while continuing to evaluate suppliers.

"This is the first step toward bilateral negotiations that will establish the terms and conditions of Colombia's participation in the program," says Embraer in the 1 September announcement. Colombia's contribution to the program could also include a factory there for machined parts, Embraer adds.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:50 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
PPVRA

Thanks for the update on the French order.

Quoting SandroMag (Reply 11):
SandroMag

First Chile, and now Columbia and possibly Portugal? I agree that an order from the SAAF is possible, too. They canceled their order for the A-400 and need something to replace them. I had thought it could be the C-130J or C-17, but the KC-390 makes more sense.
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5257
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:53 pm

It's interesting to note that Colombia is contemplating double the FACh's planned buy. Does Colombia actually require this much airlift capability?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SandroMag
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:36 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:51 pm

From a portuguese newspaper today edition

"Participação portuguesa no fabrico do KC-390 assegurada até fim do ano - ministro da Defesa
Lisboa, 10 set (Lusa) - O ministro da Defesa revelou hoje que até final deste ano fica definida a participação portuguesa na construção do avião de transporte militar KC-390, assegurando a participação de empresas portuguesas e a tempo de preparar a substituição futura dos C-130.

"Queremos concluir as negociações até ao fim deste ano" e a participação portuguesa no projeto da empresa brasileira Embraer tem dois objetivos, sendo o primeiro "tratar, com tempo, a substituição dos Hercules C-130, que têm um ciclo de vida que terminará" e assegurar a participação desde o inicio da força área na definição de certos requisitos, disse Augusto Santos Silva.

O segundo prende-se com a participação de empresas portuguesas de engenharia aeronáutica e de sistemas de software e comunicações neste projeto da Embraer, no fabrico da fuselagem e equipamentos de informação e comunicação das aeronaves, e que será estruturada por dois consórcios que integram várias empresas, um de cada área.

Santos Silva falava no final da cerimónia de assinatura, com o homologo brasileiro Nelson Jobim, do penúltimo acordo que a Embraer pretende fazer relativo a este projeto.

Nelson Jobim referiu que vão participar neste projeto, a convite do Brasil, Portugal, a República Checa, a Argentina, o Chile e a Colômbia.

A definição da participação concreta de cada país o mais rápido possível obedece ao objetivo de "ter o protótipo já pronto em 2014 ou 2015 e iniciar a produção em série em 2018", ano em que começa a "paralisação do material dos norte-americanos C-130", explicou o ministro da Defesa brasileiro.

Estima-se que circulem no mundo entre 2000 e 2500 aviões de transporte militar C-130 e a brasileira Embraer quer ocupar esse mercado com o seu KC-390.

Os dois ministros assinaram o protocolo no final da manhã de hoje, após uma reunião de cerca de uma hora e meia em que, além deste tema bilateral, passaram em revista temas multilaterais, como a cooperação no âmbito da Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa (CPLP).

A agenda da próxima reunião de ministros da Defesa da CPLP, que o Brasil acolhe em novembro, foi um dos temas tratados neste âmbito, adiantou Santos Silva.

ANP."

In brief words the portuguese commitment for the KC-390 program will be decided until the end of the year, interesting to see two new partners interested in participating in this project, Argentina and the Czech Republic.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 13):
It's interesting to note that Colombia is contemplating double the FACh's planned buy. Does Colombia actually require this much airlift capability?

I agree, that would be some 56 KC-390s. Currently the FAC has;
C-130B/H = 7
C-212 = 3
C-235 = 3
C-295 = 4
KC-707 = 1
AC-47 = 6

TOTAL = 24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_Air_Force#Aircraft_inventory
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:21 pm

Czech Republic outlines need for two KC-390s.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...outlines-need-for-two-kc-390s.html

Also want to put their hands on a part of the production cake..

Not withstanding the KC-390 looks like a very useful and probably efficient 20t cargo / tanker / troop transport.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_KC-390_Refuels_AMX_Concept_lg.jpg

Recent (Q2) program schedule:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.co...C-390_Project_Schedule_2010_lg.jpg
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:47 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Thoughts ?

Yes. This is not good news for A400M exports.

Quoting columba (Reply 5):
The KC 390 is an interesting alternative for countries that can not afford the A400M and don´t want the C130J.

See above.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:28 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 17):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Thoughts ?

Yes. This is not good news for A400M exports.

The KC390 will be a 20-23t transport
The C130J is an 20t transport
The A400M is a 37t transport
The C-17 is a 80t transport

Embraers take on it:

"It is designed to be superior to the C-130," says Neto. "The Brazilian air force could have purchased the C-130J, but this aircraft will do more for less, so that's the challenge we have ahead of us. It's as simple as that. We have a contract to produce a product that will do that job."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...fident-of-success-with-kc-390.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:02 pm

Quoting keesje (Reply 18):
The KC390 will be a 20-23t transport
The C130J is an 20t transport
The A400M is a 37t transport
The C-17 is a 80t transport

How many air forces need a transport that size on a recurring basis? That's why there's Volga Dnieper. C-130 size aircraft will work fine for the vast majority of the world's air forces, in fact its probably a better fit. I think that the KC-390 will eat into potential export sales of the A400M.

We shall see....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:02 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 19):
How many air forces need a transport that size on a recurring basis? That's why there's Volga Dnieper. C-130 size aircraft will work fine for the vast majority of the world's air forces, in fact its probably a better fit. I think that the KC-390 will eat into potential export sales of the A400M.

We shall see....

The thing is with the C-130, the aircraft becomes volume restricted before it comes weight restricted. Many users are looking to get more capacity from their transports, and since the KC-390 is a volumetrically larger aircraft than the C-130, I would say future export sales of the C-130 are more likely to be in jeopardy than the A400M, which has a different niche to fill.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 20):
and since the KC-390 is a volumetrically larger aircraft than the C-130, I would say future export sales of the C-130 are more likely to be in jeopardy than the A400M, which has a different niche to fill.

No argument on that point. The C-130 has had a great run, but its days are probably numbered.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:46 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 21):
No argument on that point. The C-130 has had a great run, but its days are probably numbered.

Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

Suggestions: single pilot ops/UAV capability, BWB, new engines (based on TP400s?). . .

[Edited 2010-09-14 12:52:00]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:29 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

I fully expect that this is what will happen at some point. The potential market within the U.S. armed services alone is huge: USAF, USN, USCG & USMC. I don't expect them, or Boeing, or another US company, to just concede this market.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5257
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:58 pm

Quoting SandroMag (Reply 14):
In brief words the portuguese commitment for the KC-390 program will be decided until the end of the year,

Portugal seems to be looking at six airframes. A bit galling for EADS.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ortugal-could-buy-six-kc-390s.html

Quote:
"Portugal could acquire six Embraer KC-390 tactical transports following the signature of a declaration of intent by defence minister Augusto Santos Silva and his Brazilian counterpart Nelson Jobim.

[.....]

Portugal's commitment represents a blow to Airbus Military, which assembles the A400M in neighbouring Spain. Lisbon was previously interested in the larger design, but withdrew from the European programme before its formal launch in 2003.

The Portuguese air force already operates 15 of Airbus Military's C-212 light and C-295 medium transports, plus six Lockheed Martin C-130H Hercules, as listed in Flightglobal's MiliCAS database."


Which begs the question..... "What does this do to Kawasaki's C-2 and HAL/Irkut's MRTT"?

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

Suggestions: single pilot ops/UAV capability, BWB, new engines (based on TP400s?). . .

LockMart's concept is so way out there, one would think only Skunk Works could dream it up.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ontest-to-build-cargo-x-plane.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:11 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 24):
LockMart's concept is so way out there, one would think only Skunk Works could dream it up.....

I bet it looks a lot more traditional from below. And actually, I'd say it looks like something the British would design. . .

I'm hoping for BWB, though, like this. .

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/Boe...Blended-Wing%20Bomber%20(2000).htm
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3180
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:46 pm

Add the Czechs to the list of customers it seems. Negotiations begin for 2 aircraft.

http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...ad/2_090-Com-VPD-KC_Czech-I-10.pdf
The last of the famous international playboys
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting keesje (Reply 18):
The KC390 will be a 20-23t transport
The C130J is an 20t transport
The A400M is a 37t transport
The C-17 is a 80t transport

You forgot the Japanese C-2, which has a 42t transport capability

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

Suggestions: single pilot ops/UAV capability, BWB, new engines (based on TP400s?). . .

Long duration mission aircraft must have two pilots, but your other suggestions might work.

But, I can see the USAF ordering a few C/KC-390s and a few C-2s.

[Edited 2010-09-15 13:57:01]
 
wingscrubber
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:38 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:42 am

C-2 cannot be exported due to Japan's military hardware export covenants, it'll never fly with a foreign airforce, this is why KC-390 is going to have a field day. I was working on a subcontractor proposal for the KC-390 program up until recently, but the company I'm contracting with decided to pull out for no reason even though it looks like a really strong program. Totally baffling. Was looking forward to putting my name on it...
Resident TechOps Troll
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3180
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 am

And now Argentina is in talks for the airlifter:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1318822620100913
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5257
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:24 pm

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 2):
Is Argentina also involved?
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 29):
And now Argentina is in talks for the airlifter:

With Argentina in negotiations, it's highly likely they will be included. Bringing potential initial orders to 60 - quite remarkable.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...to-kc-390-discussion-partners.html

Quote:
"Embraer has announced that Argentina is the sixth government to enter negotiations on joining the development phase of the KC-390 transport programme.

A declaration of intent revealed on 29 October proposes to involve Argentina's FAdeA aerospace company in the development project, while the Ministry of Defense is negotiating a purchase of six KC-390s, Embraer says."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:22 am

The Kc390 transport tanker platform looked potent from the start. Looks like the industrial base is gaining weight quickly. Next step could be a major Western or Asian customer ordering a substantial number. Looks like Embraer and its government supporters gambled right again.

The A400M often is an expensive and oversized direct replacement for the C130. The KC390 fits in perfectly. A bigger fuselage cross section, higher payload, tanker capabilities for international deployments and less noisy, faster.

I can see many airforces looking for this, even European air forces.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MsSh3EyzOEs/S8hm3jDHbyI/AAAAAAAAEOI/j5Ttec3Zba4/s1600/3.jpg

[Edited 2010-10-30 05:21:34]
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CamiloA380
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:10 am

According to a blog in Spanish, Argentina ordered 6 KC-390. I think this also means that Argentina will be constructing parts of it, as Embraer and FAdeA signed agreements to revive the CBA-123 project that was abandoned long time ago.

Quoting keesje (Reply 31):
I can see many airforces looking for this, even European air forces.



Yeap, certainly true. I hope Uruguay will be included in the order list.  

Camilo   
Flying4Ever!
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5257
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft

Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:32 am

There is nothing to order yet. To clarify.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...tical-Air-Transport-Program-05380/

Quote:
"Oct 29/10: Embraer announces that:

'As a result of the conversations held between the Brazilian and the Argentine Defense Ministries, the ministers Nelson Jobim and Nilda Garre signed, this week, a Declaration of Intent regarding the South American neighbor's participation in the development program of the KC-390 military transport jet. The agreement marks the beginning of negotiations for the involvement of Fábrica Argentina de Aviões 'Brig. San Martín' S.A. – FAdeA in the manufacture of the new airplane, as well as the future acquisition of six KC-390 aircraft by the Argentine government.'

FAdeA was Lockheed Martin Aircraft Argentina during its privatized period, but is now state-owned again. The firm has collaborated with Embraer on a twin-prop regional airliner (the canceled CBA 123) and refurbished C-130s, but it also has a long history of aircraft development. Its best-known product is probably the IA-58 Pucara counter-insurgency aircraft, and they are currently developing an IA-73 basic jet trainer to go with their IA-63 Pampa advanced jet trainer. Flight International."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests