ryu2
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Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:08 pm

http://world.globaltimes.cn/americas/2010-10/580595.html

Quote:
If it gets the green light, the C-130 transport aircraft, nicknamed "Hercules," would become the first heavy military equipment that the US has exported to China since 1989.

I think it will be hard for Obama to get this approved politically but it's a good idea -- the C-130 is old technology, and it's for humanitarian purposes.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:03 pm

So we can then use the money they pay us to pay off our debt to them.... Sounds like a good idea haha. Does china have a need for the C130?
 
keesje
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:14 pm

I think the Chinese work on similar sized Shaanxi Y-8 and new Y-9.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
trex8
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:20 pm

The Chinese aren't buying anything they cannot get parts on the commercial market for. They were screwed once before by the US over the S70s 20 years ago. Even HK ended up ditching their GFS S70s because Washington embargoed parts after "reunification" with the PRC and these were civilian choppers of the HK government! Anything with PLA on it will be treated even more stringently.
 
Spacepope
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:55 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 3):
The Chinese aren't buying anything they cannot get parts on the commercial market for. They were screwed once before by the US over the S70s 20 years ago.

Ermm.. after the recent earthquake the S-70s put in a ton of service. They'd buy them again in a heartbeat if they could.
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keesje
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:15 am

Quoting ryu2 (Thread starter):
and it's for humanitarian purposes.

That what people say when they don't want to know what else can be transported..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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alberchico
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:34 am

Why not the Chinese have already converted a 737 for military use in clear violation of export agreements

http://apture.s3.amazonaws.com/00000128a77226d334f208f0007f000000000001.PLAAF%20737%23.jpg

This excellent article explains the issue

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.187/pub_detail.asp
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Oroka
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:35 pm

So, 10-15 years China will produce a medium transport aircraft that looks strikingly similar to a C-130.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:10 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 7):

They already do. And no, the An-12 was not a C-130 copy.
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Spacepope
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
They already do. And no, the An-12 was not a C-130 copy.

No, but the Y-8 IS an AN-12 copy. They don't seem to be producing many of them, nor the Y-9 either. A few dozen airframes maybe, including AWACS?
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ptrjong
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:51 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 9):

No, they build surprisingly few. Maybe because the An-12 was always a bit less capable than he C-130, and the Y-8 may be worse - it's an unlicensed copy if I remember well.

In fact, when you look at it, the Chinese aviation industry did not get all that far in 60 years of trying hard.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Burkhard
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:00 am

It is a small gesture of good will - and good will is the most missing quantity on earth...
 
Oroka
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:06 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 11):
It is a small gesture of good will - and good will is the most missing quantity on earth...

Well, I guess china probably has picked apart a few C-130s... other than the newest J model, they have all the info they need to rip off Lockheed. It is probably easier for China to buy a few and make copies than to bullshit it from specs.


China is becoming the neighborhood bully... is offering your lunch money to a bully before he takes it a 'good will gesture'?
 
Venus6971
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:56 am

Sell them our old E models.
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Burkhard
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:06 am

Do you really think that China buys a handful of C130, and then replicates it for selling? You should be aware that:

a) China is in absolute control of the internet through a lot of bot nets, and there is no information on any computer that is connected to the internet that is not copied to China if assumed to be of any relevance. So they do have all the plans, they don't have to measure themselves.

b) China cannot sell copied C130s anywhere. Where are the 707 or MD80 clones China is flooding the market with?

So all that could happen is that China, from operating some C130s, with engineers taking data, gets more insight into what is wrong in typical operation in China, to be considered for future development.

On the other hand, China knows that they have to do something to balance their trade - and the US have little to offer China needs. A handful of C130s would not threaten Taiwan, would not make China's industry the Lockheed of next week, and at least reduce the debth of the US by a tiny bit.

Or do you propose that China waits for the A400?
 
Lumberton
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:22 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...10/report-no-c-130s-for-china.html

Quote:
"No C-130 has gone to China or is being sold to China; this is just a waiver for a contingency plan."

Administration officials told The Cable that the State Department will still need to review and issue licenses for any C-130s that travel to China, and that this waiver was granted at the behest of allied countries.

"A European company that has C-130s wanted to be able to use them in a disaster response in that region and needed the waiver just in case they needed to land in China," a senior administration official told The Cable.

Much like the report that the UK and France would share an aircraft carrier. Not.
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trex8
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:30 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 15):
Much like the report that the UK and France would share an aircraft carrier. Not.

I'd bet more money on that than C130s going to China!

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 14):
a) China is in absolute control of the internet through a lot of bot nets, and there is no information on any computer that is connected to the internet that is not copied to China if assumed to be of any relevance. So they do have all the plans, they don't have to measure themselves.

They had the complete design plans for the RR Spey engine and American Mk 44 torpedo too but even with RR help they had trouble licence manufacturing the Spey and the SAE non metric machine tools they needed for the Mk44 was enough to shelf that and make the Italian A244 instead!

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 14):
On the other hand, China knows that they have to do something to balance their trade - and the US have little to offer China needs.

well just as one example they could stop protecting their wind/solar industry and let US companies compete on an equal footing, that could be worth much more long term than any C130 sale. Buick also sells more cars in China than in the US, like more than twice as many, stop the controls on imports and GM could certainly sell many more higher end US made cars in their line up in China, let alone import some mid level cars from the US.
 
keesje
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:20 pm

I think we have to look at technology on parts level rather the "copying" an airframe.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:54 pm

I agree with Keesje on this.
 
zkeye
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RE: Obama Proposes To Sell China C-130s

Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
I agree with Keesje on this.

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