bigbird
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Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:23 pm

With all of the talk about the KC-X I was wondering what the oldest aircraft in the USAF is. It is probably a KC-135 and if so does anyone know the serial number? Even if it is not a KC-135 can someone tell me what is the oldest tanker still going? Also are there any older ones in other branches of US services. The U S Navy
Beaver at PAX River comes to mind.
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hka098
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:09 pm

I would tend to think some of the B-52s, still in service, are up there in age.
 
mechatnew
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:16 am

With the retirement of the T-37 Tweet last year I think that a Fiscal year 1957 KC-135R would be the oldest in the USAF. None of the 1955/56 KC-135A/E were converted to 'R' models. Maybe 57-1419 of the 117ARS Kansas ANG. The B-52Hs are 1960/61. There are a few 1960/61/62 T-38Cs ,and 1961/62 C-130Es still in service.
As for the USN/MC I belive you are corect about the U-6A Beaver. Most of the KC-130Fs have been retired, but I think there are a couple still in service. These were based on the C-130B and would have been delivered in the early 1960s. The CH-46 are from the mid 1960s.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:35 am

Quoting mechatnew (Reply 2):
I think that a Fiscal year 1957 KC-135R would be the oldest in the USAF

That sounds logical. I presume there are absolutely no more piston engined airplanes anywhere in the USAF?
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HaveBlue
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:15 am

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 3):
That sounds logical. I presume there are absolutely no more piston engined airplanes anywhere in the USAF?

According to Wiki there are still a few T-41s (Cessna 172) used by the Air Force Academy and Flight Team. It was my guess that they still used them, I just wasn't sure where.
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zanl188
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 3):
That sounds logical. I presume there are absolutely no more piston engined airplanes anywhere in the USAF?

A model Predators are piston powered.
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Moose135
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:26 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 5):
A model Predators are piston powered.

That's a drone - real airplanes have pilots... 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:37 pm

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 4):
According to Wiki there are still a few T-41s (Cessna 172) used by the Air Force Academy and Flight Team. It was my guess that they still used them, I just wasn't sure where.

The USAFA still has, I believe 3 T-41Cs in use. The USAF purchased the T-41A (C-172E) in 1964, and the T-41C (C-172F) in 1966. The US Army bought the T-41B (also a C-172E) in 1964 and 1965.

Several USAF T-41A/B/Cs were still flying in USAF-MWR Areo Clubs as recently as a few years ago, I don't know if the still have them.

The T-41A/B had a lever to operate the flaps, the T-41C had electricly operated flaps.

The oldest jet still flying in the USAF is KC-135R tail number 57-1419, ordered in FY 1957 and delivered in 1958. There are a number of 1957 and 1958 model KC-135Rs and several 1958 model KC-135Ts still on active flying with the USAF, ANG, and USAFR. The remaining B-52Hs are all FY 1961 and 1962 buys.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:46 pm

In terms of piston engine aircraft still in service. I think the USAF Academy, besides the T-41s,has a least one Cessna 150, , with no military designnation. The US Army had 2 Cessna O-2A's, but I think they were just retired a few months ago, while the US Navy still has one. The US Army used to have 2 Cessna 182s at its Academy, and 2 AN-2s, but I am not sure if they are still in service. The US Navy has at least 2 U-6As[DHC-2 Beaver], and one U-1A [DHC-3 Otter ] with the Test Pilots School.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:07 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
That's a drone - real airplanes have pilots...

Still it's piston powered... and probably expending more ordinance than any USAF mann, er, "crewed" aircraft at the moment....
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:54 pm

Quoting mechatnew (Reply 8):
I think the USAF Academy, besides the T-41s,has a least one Cessna 150, , with no military designnation.

Two...both with N-numbers, and both registered to the United States Air Force:


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hka098
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
The oldest jet still flying in the USAF is KC-135R tail number 57-1419, ordered in FY 1957 and delivered in 1958. There are a number of 1957 and 1958 model KC-135Rs and several 1958 model KC-135Ts still on active flying with the USAF, ANG, and USAFR. The remaining B-52Hs are all FY 1961 and 1962 buys.

1958! That says something about the manufacturers and maintainers of this aircraft.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:31 pm

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 3):

The 557th Flying Training Squadron (US Air Force Academy) operates piston engined aircraft. They have T-41s, T-51s, and T-52s. (Cessna 150, 172, and Diamond DA40 military designations) Additionally, several of these aircraft are found in Aero Clubs donated as surplus. They now bear N registrations, however.

It has also been mentioned that Predators are piston powered. The US Army especially operates several smaller UAS' that are powered by piston engines (Shadow, Hunter, Warrior A, etc.)
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:37 pm

Quoting covert (Reply 12):
It has also been mentioned that Predators are piston powered. The US Army especially operates several smaller UAS' that are powered by piston engines (Shadow, Hunter, Warrior A, etc.)

Not to get too far off topis but the PUMA uses the 3 cylinder Smart car engine.


Back on topic...

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
The oldest jet still flying in the USAF is KC-135R tail number 57-1419, ordered in FY 1957 and delivered in 1958. There are a number of 1957 and 1958 model KC-135Rs and several 1958 model KC-135Ts still on active flying with the USAF, ANG, and USAFR. The remaining B-52Hs are all FY 1961 and 1962 buys.

I am amazed that the KC-135 fleet has older aircraft than the B52 fleet. I would have thought it would be the other way around...
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:37 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
The T-41A/B had a lever to operate the flaps, the T-41C had electricly operated flaps.

I used to fly a T-41 for Civil Air Patrol; I was under the impression that it was a T-41B, and it definitely had electric flaps. Either I am wrong, and it was a T-41C (which is possible) or the -B had electric flaps. The original engine was the Continental O360 which had been replaced by the Lycoming O360, and it had a constant speed prop.

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 13):

I am amazed that the KC-135 fleet has older aircraft than the B52 fleet. I would have thought it would be the other way around...

Only the latest B-52's are still flying; all of the early models have been retired. A much greater percentage of the B-52 fleet has been retired than the KC-135 fleet.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 13):
I am amazed that the KC-135 fleet has older aircraft than the B52 fleet. I would have thought it would be the other way around...
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 14):
Only the latest B-52's are still flying; all of the early models have been retired. A much greater percentage of the B-52 fleet has been retired than the KC-135 fleet.

Correct, the B-52B/C/D/E/F/Gs were all built between 1954 and 1959 (the last few B-52Gs were delivered in 1960). All of these bombers have been retired, and most of them have been scrapped. There is only 2 B-52Bs remaining, one at the SAC Mesuem at OFF, and the NASA flight test B-52B which flew until about 2005. There is one surviving B-52C owned by P&W (no longer flying and may have been scrapped by now), a few B-52Ds in museums, all the B-52Es are scrapped, 1-2 B-52Fs in museums, and several B-52Gs in museums.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 14):
I used to fly a T-41 for Civil Air Patrol; I was under the impression that it was a T-41B, and it definitely had electric flaps. Either I am wrong, and it was a T-41C (which is possible) or the -B had electric flaps. The original engine was the Continental O360 which had been replaced by the Lycoming O360, and it had a constant speed prop.

The CAP received the T-41A/B/C from the USAF (T-41A/C) and US Army (T-41B). All originally were C-172Es, except the T-41C was the C-172F and all originally had the Continental engines. The Lycoming engine began with the production of the C-172I in 1968, and was available to reengine the Continental engined aircraft. So your CAP T-41 most likely got reengined. The US Army also got some C-172Fs, which had the electric flaps, but still called them the T-41B. The USAF C-172Fs were all called T-41Cs while the USAF C-172Es were called the T-41A. You very well could be right then as your CAP T-41 could have been a "B" model.
 
mechatnew
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:21 pm

There are 4 B-52Bs preserved.
B-52B 52-0005 at the old Lowry AFB museum, in Colorado.
NB-52B 52-0008 , the NASA one, at Edwards AFB,CA
RB-52B 52-0013 at the National Atomic Museum near Kirtland AFB,NM
RB-52B 52-8711 at the SAC museum, Nebraska.
The is also NB-52A 52-0003 at the Pima Museum in Arizona., and B-52F 57-0038 at Palmdale, CA. the rest of the reserved ones are B-52Ds, and B-52Gs.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:32 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
So your CAP T-41 most likely got reengined.

It absolutely was; that was what I meant in my original post. One thing I did not emphasize is that while the Cessna 172's of that era had the Continental O-300 (145HP) the T-41's had the Continental O-360 (200HP) and a constant speed prop. The Lycoming conversion only had 180HP. Cessna did offer the 172SP, which had the Continental O-360 and constant speed prop, but I believe it was not offered until later. One other quirk of the T-41's; they had no baggage door.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
One other quirk of the T-41's; they had no baggage door.

Are you sure? Baggage doors are visible on all of these:


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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Cessna did offer the 172SP, which had the Continental O-360 and constant speed prop, but I believe it was not offered until later

I think you mean the 172XP, with a Continental IO-360 with a constant speed prop. While it is marketed as a 172, it was actually built on the 175 type certificate. The 172SP (built since the late 1990's) is powered by a Lycoming IO-360, with a fixed pitch prop.

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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:43 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 19):
I think you mean the 172XP, with a Continental IO-360 with a constant speed prop.

You're right.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:46 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):

Are you sure? Baggage doors are visible on all of these:

They certainly are. The one I flew, however, did not have one. I was under the impression that none of them did; obviously I was wrong.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:09 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):
2H4

I have flown in T-41A N4976R, it was part of the Aero Club at BED. IIRC, they had 2 T-41As and 2 or 3 Archers. N4976R did not have electric flaps.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):

I just noticed that the third picture you posted has a fixed prop; which indicates that it probably had the Continental O-300 instead of the O-360. So does anyone have any information on which T-41's had the larger engine?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
rwessel
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:13 am

The USAF Test Pilot School operates, on a semi-regular basis, a B-17, HU-16 Albatross, MiG-15 and DC-3. I'm not sure of the ownership status of any of those aircraft, so I don't know if they should count as "USAF Aircraft" for purposes of this discussion, but the B-17 or DC-3 would certainly have been produced prior to the 1957 KC-135s, and the HU-16 and MiG-15 could have been.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 24):
The USAF Test Pilot School operates, on a semi-regular basis, a B-17, HU-16 Albatross, MiG-15 and DC-3. I'm not sure of the ownership status of any of those aircraft, so I don't know if they should count as "USAF Aircraft" for purposes of this discussion, but the B-17 or DC-3 would certainly have been produced prior to the 1957 KC-135s, and the HU-16 and MiG-15 could have been.

Yes, all of them were built long before any KC-135A. But each of the aircraft you mentioned are rented and or leased for short terms by the USAF, all are owned by civilians and have "N" numbers. IIRC, the DC-3 is actually a former C-47B or C-47D. The B-17G, C-47B/D, and HU-16B are former USAAF or USAF airplanes bit none are owned by the USAF.
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):
Yes, all of them were built long before any KC-135A. But each of the aircraft you mentioned are rented and or leased for short terms by the USAF, all are owned by civilians and have "N" numbers.

Just to play with semantics a bit, the original question was "what the oldest aircraft in the USAF is." If the original 767 tanker deal had happened, would those tankers have been "in the USAF?" And assuming that they would have been, how would that be distinguished from leases or rentals (short or long term) for any of the above four civilian owned aircraft?
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 26):

Just to play with semantics a bit, the original question was "what the oldest aircraft in the USAF is." If the original 767 tanker deal had happened, would those tankers have been "in the USAF?" And assuming that they would have been, how would that be distinguished from leases or rentals (short or long term) for any of the above four civilian owned aircraft?

I would say that an aircraft on long-term lease would count as being in the USAF, just as you would count it in an airline's fleet. A plane that is only rented or leased on occasion and is used or is available to be used by others would not count. In other words, if it is EXCLUSIVELY used or available to the USAF, it is part of the fleet. Any outside use or availability means that it is not.
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:09 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 26):
If the original 767 tanker deal had happened, would those tankers have been "in the USAF?

Yes, it would still be a USAF aircraft, with a USAF FY tail number. Originally all of the C-21s (Lear-35s) the USAF got in the 1980s were on long term leases. IIRC, about 5 or 6 years into the lease the USAF finally bought them. The same happened with the C-40C (B-737-BBJ2), originally leased, then bought after a while.

The C-40Cs were leased from two companies, including Ford Motor Company, as 2 of them were former Ford owned aircraft. I forgot who the second company was, but it wasn't from Boeing. All 6 USAF C-40Cs were used aircraft when they came to the USAF, as was the C-32Bs (also leased for a few years).
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:45 pm

And just to add the highest hours airframes in the USAF flight are the E-3Bs and Cs (soon to be Gs) Higher than the oldest tanker and buff. They took the title around mid-2002 IIRC
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bigbird
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Thu May 03, 2012 11:10 pm

Is KC-135R 57-1419 still active? If so, I am sure that it is definitely the oldest jet in regular service.
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri May 04, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
The oldest jet still flying in the USAF is KC-135R tail number 57-1419, ordered in FY 1957 and delivered in 1958
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Fri May 04, 2012 8:20 pm

Is KC-135R 63-7990 or 62-3554 still active? There is not a shot in the data base of 990. Also is there a place to find an active list of -135s?
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sat May 05, 2012 4:10 am

Quoting hka098 (Reply 11):
1958! That says something about the manufacturers and maintainers...

It's great, but the US Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel.

"Old Ironsides"

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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sat May 05, 2012 5:24 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 33):
Quoting hka098 (Reply 11):
1958! That says something about the manufacturers and maintainers...

It's great, but the US Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel.

"Old Ironsides"

lol Go Navy....
but................................. Her Majesty's Royal Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel:
The First Rate 104-gun Ship of the Line - HMS Victory was launched in 1765 whilst the 44-gun USS Constitution was launched 32 years later in 1797.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sat May 05, 2012 4:42 pm

How old are the T-38 Talons?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
Her Majesty's Royal Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel:
The First Rate 104-gun Ship of the Line - HMS Victory was launched in 1765 whilst the 44-gun USS Constitution was launched 32 years later in 1797.

I wonder if these ships can be upgraded with VLS to complement their cannons.
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun May 06, 2012 12:44 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 29):
And just to add the highest hours airframes in the USAF flight are the E-3Bs and Cs (soon to be Gs) Higher than the oldest tanker and buff. They took the title around mid-2002 IIRC

The high-time airframe recently was RC-135W 62-4139.
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun May 06, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 33):

...which leads to the question if the USAF has an aircraft that is kept in flying condition and will never get retired for any reason, just for tradition's sake?

Well, what are the chances that the USS Constitution will see some active duty on the shores of Somalia? 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Sun May 06, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 37):
Well, what are the chances that the USS Constitution will see some active duty on the shores of Somalia?

Didn´t she see some action in an anti-piracy operation off the shores of the Barbary coast?  

Jan
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Mon May 07, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting mechatnew (Reply 16):
and B-52F 57-0038 at Palmdale, CA.

Chanute AFB in the mid 70's had a B-52F and I presumed it remained there and is now part of the Air Museum now that the base has been closed. Was the airplane scrapped or moved?
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Wed May 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 33):
It's great, but the US Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel.
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
Her Majesty's Royal Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel:

The Victory is the oldest "commissioned" vessel, and the Constitution is the oldest "commissioned" vessel afloat. The Victory is in permament dry dock while the Constitution is moored in Boston harbor.

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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Wed May 09, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting B727LVR (Reply 13):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):The oldest jet still flying in the USAF is KC-135R tail number 57-1419, ordered in FY 1957 and delivered in 1958. There are a number of 1957 and 1958 model KC-135Rs and several 1958 model KC-135Ts still on active flying with the USAF, ANG, and USAFR. The remaining B-52Hs are all FY 1961 and 1962 buys.
I am amazed that the KC-135 fleet has older aircraft than the B52 fleet. I would have thought it would be the other way around...
Quoting rwessel (Reply 26):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):Yes, all of them were built long before any KC-135A. But each of the aircraft you mentioned are rented and or leased for short terms by the USAF, all are owned by civilians and have "N" numbers.Just to play with semantics a bit, the original question was "what the oldest aircraft in the USAF is." If the original 767 tanker deal had happened, would those tankers have been "in the USAF?" And assuming that they would have been, how would that be distinguished from leases or rentals (short or long term) for any of the above four civilian owned aircraft?
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 33):Quoting hka098 (Reply 11):
1958! That says something about the manufacturers and maintainers...

It's great, but the US Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel.

"Old Ironsides"
lol Go Navy....
but................................. Her Majesty's Royal Navy has the oldest commissioned vessel:
The First Rate 104-gun Ship of the Line - HMS Victory was launched in 1765 whilst the 44-gun USS Constitution was launched 32 years later in 1797. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 38):
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 37):Well, what are the chances that the USS Constitution will see some active duty on the shores of Somalia?
Didn
[quote=ebj1248650,reply=39]Quoting mechatnew (Reply 16):and B-52F 57-0038 at Palmdale, CA.
Chanute AFB in the mid 70's had a B-52F and I presumed it remained there and is now part of the Air Museum now that the base has been closed. Was the airplane scrapped or moved?

That was B-52F tail 57-0042, most of her was scrapped, but her nose section is in Santa Monica, CA.

Quoting bigbird (Reply 32):
Is KC-135R 63-7990 or 62-3554 still active? There is not a shot in the data base of 990. Also is there a place to find an active list of -135s?

63-7990 never became a KC-135R. She crashed on 31 Jan. 1989.

We had 62-3554 for a while when I was at Pease AFB in the late 1980s. She was the test airplane for the strobe lights replacing the rotating beacons. She was equipped with the anti-collision strobes from the KC-10. They worked very well. Later 3554 did become a KC-135R. She is currently assigned to the 22nd Air Refueling Wing.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/63-7990.html

http://www.airport-data.com/search/s...earch=Search&code=Boeing%20KC-135A

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/62-3554.html

[Edited 2012-05-09 16:48:53]
 
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RE: Oldest Usaf Aircraft

Thu May 10, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting rc135x (Reply 36):

What's high time on a KC-135? 40,000 hours?
The last of the famous international playboys

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